Agnostics And Atheists Thread

[Pnat8R]

We dont know for sure whether if there is a god or not.. But what cause the big bang?there must have been a natural force that trigger big bang to happen.. What if on other hand time really exist before the big bang... There are some theory suggest a multiverse.. That the contact between two universe cause the explosion to happen..

Isa lang ang sigurado talaga.. at yan ay ang katotohanang may isang makapangyarihang puwersa komokontrol sa buong universo.. at yan ang Nag iisang makapangyarihang Diyos...Katulad ng mga unang sinabi ko dito na ang paglikhang naganap na binabanggit sa Genesis ay hindi ang unang paglikhang naganap sa universong ito... bago ang sanlibutang ito ay likhain kasama ang tao..ay mayroon ng unang paglikhang naganap.. at sa umiiral na universong ito unang naganap ang digmaan sa pag itan ng mga mabubuting Anghel na lingkod ng Dios at sa mga Tumalikod na Anghel sa pamumuno ni Luxbel na syang naging si Lucifer... dahil dito ay nawasak ang unang sanglibutan..kayat ng matapos ang digmaang ito ay muling nilikha ang sanglibutang ito kung saan ay nilikha na rin ang tao... Sa digmaang naganap dito papasok ang Big bang theory na pinaniniwalaang naganap ng mga scientipiko..pero katulad ng sinabi ko sa taas.. ang big bang ay destruction.. Anu ba ang nangyari sa Big Bang? Hindi bat isang malaking pagsabog? Kapag ba ang isang bagay ay iyong pinasabog, hindi bat ito ay iyong sinisira? Pagsira sa isang umiiral na bagay...

[YoniMaster]

The third thread and the continuation.

The 1st one had been deleted by the previous Mod due to spamming and personal attacks, same thing happened to the last one.

So I hope this will take some pages before any unfortunate happened again.

So there.

State your belief and principle, and support them if you can.

I am an atheist and was quite glad to see this page and previous pages that i didn't jump in those coz it was getting lost with what i thought was the point. so I'll stick with what the page starter had in mind (and what i wanted anyway) feel free to question, i will most unlikely try to refute you but will honestly reflect on what you say, so here goes:..

 

1. first doubts came from the bible itself, incoherent and unbelievable stories, and was simply told he's god and can do everything and anything. most atheist knows these things and probably theist but they chose to believe and i chose to doubt. circa grade school

 

2. wars between religions circa high school: of course there are many factors to whatever wars but the identifier seems to be what religion they belong to, what struck me most and baffled about was the wars between protestants and catholics. fine they have different interpretations but in essence, its the same god why fight.

 

so the first two were what planted the seeds and the following is what made it more clear to me.

 

3. existence of other religions. growing up in a catholic school wasnt really that exposed to other religions and what their religions were about. so learning about other religions baffled me. even the greek norse persian and all those that were presented as myths and i never realized that it was a religion revered the same way the religion i was born in to. so this is where the question comes "who's right" this made me an agnostic at the time, i felt like there was a god but which one?

 

4. the existence and continued growth of the numbers of christian sects. i remember when i was young being catholic and found it weird people leaving the church and joining born again or whatever protestant church. i even remember someone telling me that these churches were created by the CIA to defuse the power of the catholic church. laughable maybe but here's what i realize. in science an idea crops up and they refute each other til they finally get a more plausible answer, go with it and call it a theory and will readily dismiss that theory if a better one comes along, on the other hand in religion someone dislikes a doctrine or doesnt agree with, they try to refute and reform but instead of coming to a consensus they start their own church.

 

5. the existence of bachelor degrees, masters and doctorate in theology, plus the existence of apologist. i find it interesting that despite the existence of these higher learning it's clear there has been no progress into knowing and much less proving the existence of god. moreover, the "phrase" "you were not taught well" or that "i have a bad understanding or fundamentalist interpretation of the bible" which i find quite condescending, when you think about it there were no degrees in theology when it was written. most people who were preaching or teaching the bible didnt have degrees much less went to school and apparently they understood it better than me. all i can tell what these degrees are for are for "spin" meaning twisting the words and giving interpretations that are more coherent and less atrocious and confusing.

 

6. the bible again, but not for it's contents but it's source. no one really knows who wrote the bible, well there are a few we can confidently say was probably written by the same guy namely paul. but most are fairly anonymous. furthermore the gospels were not written by mark matthew luke or john and that some entries found in the bible were added later (check out bart ehrman watched all his debates and so far the only thing i can agree with his opponents is that the original bible is still in the bible we have just a bit polluted but still why am i taking the word of someone 2 thousand years ago who doesnt know much and easily believe in supernatural stuff and let's face it, very gullible)

 

there are more but i feel this is too long already. anyway, looking forward to what others have to say, i mean why they became atheist rather than why im wrong, yes im avoiding confrontation coz let's face it, we will never convince each other.

[Miss Zelda]

I just don't understand why everyone should be living with fear or guilt for something that we didn't even do for thousands of years. I don't like people asserting their beliefs system to others because they think they are doing something substantial but utter annoyance!

[Miss Zelda]

I hope my special someone isn't reading this but i am more into Ayn Rand's philosophy - I don't have a label. To be pompous and arrogant to even proclaim that you are - any of these labels - are our strong regard to Catholicism - which is distinction. It's better to not have labels to be able to accept that we have no regard to anything from the norm. What's important is what we have - we only need ourselves - and depend noone and expect noone.

 

Everything will always be debateable.

 

My claim to religion is that the weak trepidation of charity - this is what the catholic church conditions a lot of people to be reminded of what Jesus has proclaimed ( or did he or just one of those cruel propagandas) but to me, it's just a twisted way to have this thought of false appreciation that you have done something remarkable but its not. It will enslaved us with the thought of responsibility for peoplewho can't help themselves, Exhibit A"- our kababayans who were victims from the typhoon Hyan.

 

Second, to even be brought into believing in GUILT in anyway we do ( like Attorney Jack Mccoy once said in the show Law and Order that " I am Catholic , i am guilty about anything!) which an act of Manipulation and also a monopoly being brought us by yours truly, the Catholic Church.

 

I understand why a lot of people wanted to call themselves as this and that but try to understand what you're getting into and be able to answer the questions of these so called free thinkers of the world. When you have decided that you wanted this for yourself and you think that this will improve your lifestyle - then be the living example of your philosophy.

 

Like any kind of Religion - it's always self meditating. Keep reading and keep learning, practice what you preach. It will be self regulating.

[bleach66]

People trapped in a delusion are not aware that they are in one. It also the same a someone being scammed by their religion. plus those who are in too deep on their religion usually are the most degrading to our society best example is the philippines.

[FleurDeLune]

 

there are more but i feel this is too long already. anyway, looking forward to what others have to say, i mean why they became atheist rather than why im wrong, yes im avoiding confrontation coz let's face it, we will never convince each other.

 

Well, the moment you dip your toe in the water, there's no assurance that you can avoid confrontation since this is the venue where everyone is free to express their opinion and/or belief. There's nothing much we can do but prepare (and be equipped) with the subject matter in hand. Thank you for posting. Keep them coming.

[YoniMaster]

Well, the moment you dip your toe in the water, there's no assurance that you can avoid confrontation since this is the venue where everyone is free to express their opinion and/or belief. There's nothing much we can do but prepare (and be equipped) with the subject matter in hand. Thank you for posting. Keep them coming.

 

yup yup, i know that, im just saying i will reflect on what they will say but will most likely not respond. in other words i dont feel like debating. of course they're free and far be it for me to stop them from sharing their opinions, i'm just saying i wont engage. rest assured though i will consider what they say for myself na nga lang. =)

[YoniMaster]

oh reading back i just realized i didnt formulate a conclusion from what I've stated. well, after discovering these facts i realized religion is man made, it's an instrument of control, our first form of government, our earliest ways of understanding since we didnt know much and this made me think a bit more. thought experiment: given the advancement of technology, the internet, flood of information and such I ask myself: if we had no concept of god at all, no books no bible about any mythical character, how can one discover that there is a god? to expound further.... we discovered atoms and subatomic particles with microscopes and with particle colliders. we discovered other galaxies, super novas, our own milky way. any claim of mystery have been investigated and found to have natural causes and those undiscovered are mostly not attributed immediately to god but are extensively being researched. so if we have no idea of god how would we in this day and age discover there is one?

 

addendum: i realized stating that "we will never convince each other" makes me sound close minded but I'd like to believe I'm not, i changed my mind and i use to have strong opinions about abortion, capital punishment, drugs and i changed my mind.

[ugi]

I used to like debating about religion, but then I realized it doesn't matter if there is or isn't a god.

[FleurDeLune]

yup yup, i know that, im just saying i will reflect on what they will say but will most likely not respond. in other words i dont feel like debating. of course they're free and far be it for me to stop them from sharing their opinions, i'm just saying i wont engage. rest assured though i will consider what they say for myself na nga lang. =)

 

 

Alright, this is not to invite you for any argument but merely for the sake of discussion. As an Atheist yourself, I’d like to hear your point of view regarding the two philosophers’ concepts. Blaise Pascal on his “Pascal’s Wager” and Michael Martin’s “Atheist’s Wager”. In that regard, Pascal’s concept is more like “a gamble whether you believe in god or not” while Martin’s is an atheistic response to Pascal’s Wager concept. Now, which one do you think has as a valid argument?

[Kingkongphils]

Personally I am okey with aetheist minding their own business. But aethiest who goes to the extent of spreading the word that God does not exist, I mean really, what is the difference?

[YoniMaster]

ive always found pascal's weak, i remember the first time this was explained to me, my knee jerk reaction was which god. not really familiar with the atheist wager but nice to know about it. oh i should say, i dont read. my choice actually came from just researching and philosophers points/arguments though interesting doesnt appeal to me. i'm actually not a fan of philosophy, it is nice to think about it but it is also where theist arguments thrive, coz religion is a philosophy with endless arguments and counter-arguments. so you might be asking the wrong person. im not well read. but i did like something i heard once from Dr. Shermer, "notice how all the proof for god are not proofs but just arguments" and einstein while debating with bohr over their argument about entanglement he said it was becoming more like philosophy than science therefore all discussions were useless. =)

[YoniMaster]

I used to like debating about religion, but then I realized it doesn't matter if there is or isn't a god.

Personally I am okey with aetheist minding their own business. But aethiest who goes to the extent of spreading the word that God does not exist, I mean really, what is the difference?

i actually feel the same way but sometimes i notice how this belief affects a lot of things. i dont really care if you believe or not but do feel sad when things are impeded due to religion. not arguing with you guys nor telling you you should care but i hipe this just makes you aware how others beliefs impact you.

 

1. stem cell research- good thing the ban on this has recently been lifted by obama but it's advancement has been impeded by christian churches. fine you may say other countries have been unimpeded but the US still remains the leader in research and has more resources than other countries, how does this impact you? imagine your love one has the possibility of being healed but due to the belief in god your love one can not receive such treatment.

 

2. middle east conflict - may not be all about religion but listen to how the leaders of islamic nations call upon their faithful for the eradication of the jews not to mention wars between muslim nations they maybe far from us but conflicts that occur because they think their god promised them the same piece of realty affect global oil prices hence affects everything else in our lives.

 

3. our very own reproductive health law- strongly opposed by the church and visibly at that. fine you may not care about the poor but surely you can appreciate how a belief in god affects society. a poor couple with 12kids and this kids eating straight out of a garbage bag which we privileged few mindlessly throw out simply because a church with its doctrine are oppose to other forms of family planning.

 

4. gay marriage- only one argument i heard for this GOD! but i heard one argument about this that made me say "oo nga naman" how does it affect me? if you're against gay marriage then dont marry a gay person.

 

yup getting long again so ill stop. again gents not arguing just letting you know how an archaic belief affects you. fine probably not the gay marriage thing but just had to put that in to show how a belief in god affects peoples lives. i agree they should keep it to themselves but only if they actually did keep it to themselves theist and atheist a like but for so long as the faithful affects my life i dont really mind atheist spreading that there's no god. i actually dont unless asked.

 

so that's the difference and why it matters. =)

[filibustero]

i actually feel the same way but sometimes i notice how this belief affects a lot of things. i dont really care if you believe or not but do feel sad when things are impeded due to religion. not arguing with you guys nor telling you you should care but i hipe this just makes you aware how others beliefs impact you.

1. stem cell research- good thing the ban on this has recently been lifted by obama but it's advancement has been impeded by christian churches. fine you may say other countries have been unimpeded but the US still remains the leader in research and has more resources than other countries, how does this impact you? imagine your love one has the possibility of being healed but due to the belief in god your love one can not receive such treatment.

2. middle east conflict - may not be all about religion but listen to how the leaders of islamic nations call upon their faithful for the eradication of the jews not to mention wars between muslim nations they maybe far from us but conflicts that occur because they think their god promised them the same piece of realty affect global oil prices hence affects everything else in our lives.

3. our very own reproductive health law- strongly opposed by the church and visibly at that. fine you may not care about the poor but surely you can appreciate how a belief in god affects society. a poor couple with 12kids and this kids eating straight out of a garbage bag which we privileged few mindlessly throw out simply because a church with its doctrine are oppose to other forms of family planning.

4. gay marriage- only one argument i heard for this GOD! but i heard one argument about this that made me say "oo nga naman" how does it affect me? if you're against gay marriage then dont marry a gay person.

yup getting long again so ill stop. again gents not arguing just letting you know how an archaic belief affects you. fine probably not the gay marriage thing but just had to put that in to show how a belief in god affects peoples lives. i agree they should keep it to themselves but only if they actually did keep it to themselves theist and atheist a like but for so long as the faithful affects my life i dont really mind atheist spreading that there's no god. i actually dont unless asked.

so that's the difference and why it matters. =)

The examples given relate more to religion - that is, organized doctrines, dogmas, or whatever it is religious leaders proclaim to be "what [their] God wants". It is not because of belief that there is a God, per se. Though I agree that religion, especially in this country, impedes a lot of things that lead to progress.

 

I am baptized roman catholic, but I cannot say that I sincerely believe all the doctrines that they preach. Mere mortals can never fully fathom what they purport to have infinite wisdom, so how can they claim to know "what God wants". There is no certainty that the God my religion worships is the true God. There is no certainty that the Gods of other religions is also the true God. It's possible that no man or religion has discovered the face of the true God.

 

See, I also don't discount the fact that there may be a God. This being may just not be what we conventionally conceive God to be. My philosophy professor uses the term "Transcendent" to refer to such being, as if to be religion-neutral. Some believe God is not a being at all, but is the very natural order of the universe. Whatever. I'll find out the truth for myself when I'm dead. Maybe.

[YoniMaster]

The examples given relate more to religion - that is, organized doctrines, dogmas, or whatever it is religious leaders proclaim to be "what [their] God wants". It is not because of belief that there is a God, per se. Though I agree that religion, especially in this country, impedes a lot of things that lead to progress.

I am baptized roman catholic, but I cannot say that I sincerely believe all the doctrines that they preach. Mere mortals can never fully fathom what they purport to have infinite wisdom, so how can they claim to know "what God wants". There is no certainty that the God my religion worships is the true God. There is no certainty that the Gods of other religions is also the true God. It's possible that no man or religion has discovered the face of the true God.

See, I also don't discount the fact that there may be a God. This being may just not be what we conventionally conceive God to be. My philosophy professor uses the term "Transcendent" to refer to such being, as if to be religion-neutral. Some believe God is not a being at all, but is the very natural order of the universe. Whatever. I'll find out the truth for myself when I'm dead. Maybe.

i agree, specially your point of how these instituitions claim what their god want or command. but still stems out of a belief in a god they dont want to piss off. =) Edited January 30, 2016 by democritus