Agnostics And Atheists Thread

[FleurDeLune]

The third thread and the continuation.

 

The 1st one had been deleted by the previous Mod due to spamming and personal attacks, same thing happened to the last one.

 

So I hope this will take some pages before any unfortunate happened again.

 

So there.

 

State your belief and principle, and support them if you can.

Edited August 31, 2015 by FleurDeLune

[Fondness]

I'm agnostic because I'm not content with taking people's words that there is a deity, and there has been no convincing evidence that there is one. I'm totally fine with people believing what they want though, because it's important for people to find comfort in however way they can. I can't find comfort in a god, is my bottom line.

[HateEternal]

Atheist here, actually even as I child I already have a lot of doubts when it comes to religion and up until now I think it is all mumbo jumbo. But I still do respect those who believe what they want to.

[FleurDeLune]

Yeah, you're so very atheist that your alternick just happened to contain 'demon' in it. Don't you find it comical that people who say they're atheists use too many Satanic/demonic cliches? I find that laughable.

Relax dude. I'm in the mood of giving some warning points at the moment, so if I were you I willl just mind my own business.

 

On the contrary, make it subtle please. I enjoy reading an intellectual discussion not an idiotic one.

[FleurDeLune]

I'll take heed on this thread. Carry on and try to observe the Forums Rules and Regulations as much as possible.

 

If you guys want to unhide the previous thread, I can do it so you have an idea why I decided to lock and hide it.

[Spanner_works]

I am an atheist but I always use the phrase, "Oh my god". Does this mean i believe in god? No, because it is only a figure of speech. As for the use of the word "demon" as a forum name, i honestly do not see the dissonance here.

[HateEternal]

And I find it laughable that you reacted to this despite not knowing where I got this nick. It is from a demon in Magic the Gathering named Phage. As for the forum started, just let him be. There are quite a lot of "atheists" who act who knows a lot des.... nah I'll stop here to keep this clean.

Yeah, you're so very atheist that your alternick just happened to contain 'demon' in it. Don't you find it comical that people who say they're atheists use too many Satanic/demonic cliches? I find that laughable.

[p4tr1ck]

"with the current scientific establishment.. no one could really tell the existence of a god or gods.. nature tells us a system that works around us.. how stuff works around us.. everything around us indeed an intelligent design by nature itself.."

[Spanner_works]

Oh and Sartre might have done the sign of the cross if he'd ever hear you, a self-confessed atheist, utter "Oh my god".

Err, what else? Do you also wear crosses because they're just fashion items? Oh wait, maybe attend a mass as well since a pretty girl that you've been chasing just happens to be a Christian? So where does this 'just stuff' ends and real, thinking, self-consistent atheistic "you" start? This whole cafeteria atheism is just amusing. I applaud the likes of Dawkins and Sartre since they seem to get it that being an atheist requires a lot more than mere lip service and arbitrarily picking aspects of it that's comfortable. Atheism is a life philosophy, which apparently isn't the case for most bandwagon self-confessed atheists. To most, it's just a convenient excuse to do whatever they want without the responsibility of truly extricating themselves from the bounds of religion. The mere fact that you don't see any problem with uttering 'my god' is a testament to your commitment to a life without the god concept.

I went to mass with my ex during sundays, also got communion. None of which prove or provide evidence for the existence of a god. As far as i am concerned, atheism is not a life philosophy, it is simply the lack of belief in a god or gods. It is not a conviction, because i am more than ready to abandon it if i am provided convincing evidence for the existence of a god.

 

And so what if the concept of demons came from religion? Wednesday is derived from the phrase "day of Odin/Woden". Does this mean everybody who uses the concept should accept the validity of the norse gods?

[mtcnono]

I respect all Atheists, Agnostics and Believers of God, because I for one believe in God.

 

One of the reason I believe is because of my Life and my consciousness, as well as being able to convey my consciousness through Language and Speech which I believe came from an origin which cannot be explained how we are alive and how we think. And that none of us can create Life out of nothing.

 

Everyone is entitled to their own Belief.

 

I understand what Alvin.Teng is saying, its like having Atheists practice Marriage, its like saying that you do not believe in God yet you practice a form of ritual/tradition where in it was ideally from God. Its like saying you believe that Cigarettes is can k*ll you, and you are saying You don't want to die, yet you still smoke. That is what I'm getting.

 

I also agree with spanner_works, words are just words, we can even create our own words or use a word and make up our own meaning, it might mean differently to you than the other person. Anyone can use a nick or even say who they say they are.

 

What strikes me on Alvin.Teng's note, is the Practice and observance of a ritual or tradition or anything pertaining to God. What i'm point at is, even if you are born a Filipino, can you call yourself a Filipino even if you do not believe and practice being a Filipino, to the point you are mocking Filipinos? Because I believe if you are a Terrorist or you are a bad citizen, you can be expelled or declared persona non grata. The ultimate point is, i've met couples, individuals, and others who say they are Atheists or Agnostics yet they observe or practice ceremonies, rituals or traditions which are of or related or originated from Religions.

 

What I believe is that if We truly are believe in something, and say it is so, we should not just get on whats hip or whats hop, we should stick to it and not practice what we do not believe. Like for me I do Believe in God, but I do not celebrate Dec. 25 as Christ's Birth, so I do not celebrate Christmas. Because I've even seen other Atheists Celebrate Christmas, its ironic in my opinion.

 

@Alvin.Teng, while I support your point of view, I would also suggest to tone it down, as the Moderator's advice. It would really be nice to discuss without personal attacks or sarcasms. Lets have a healthy and friendly discussion and not get on others nerves. I should know, I am one of the parties involved in having the other thread being locked and hide. heheheheh.

Edited August 27, 2015 by mtcnono

[airport-noo]

I prefer to take a less hardline stance on things I don't know. I don't expect an atheist to be 100% committed to his atheism any more than I expect a believer to be 100% sincere about his religion. It goes both ways and everybody is guilty of it in varying degrees. But thankfully is not a requirement. If a believer's reaction is anger or disdain towards an atheist participating in a ceremony with religious origins, I guess that is one attribute of being a believer.

Edited August 29, 2015 by airport-noo

[Spanner_works]

I got a warning so I guess I have to rephrase the obvious and be nice. Your retort about wednesdays is meaningless. It would have been an apt analogy if you call yourself 'Negroboy' and then go on a diatribe against people who are racists. You see that's what happened here. Calling yourself a 'demon' of sorts and then declare that you don't believe in God is pretty incoherent.

 

 

There are your words:

 

 

The concept of demons is inherently tied to religions. To use it and then deny the existence of what gave rise to such a concept just screams incoherence

 

The concept of Wednesday is inherently tied to Odin. To use it (Wednesday) and then deny the existence of what gave rise to such a concept (Odin) just screams incoherence.

 

So should we now all start worshiping or accepting Odin in order to be coherent?

 

 

Now, I find you amusing that you call yourself an atheist when all there is to it is doubt. Doubt is agnostic's bread and butter. Atheism requires more conviction. Anyway, in the end I really don't give a rat's ass about your brand of non-belief. Like I said, I'm not saying it's wrong because there's really no right and wrong when it comes to these things. But I say it's pretty lame and devoid of any substance that renders itself to any kind of meaningful discourse. It's an intellectually bankrupt brand of atheism.

 

Definition of atheist according to the Oxford dictionary:

 

A person who disbelieves or lacks belief in the existence of God or gods

 

Nothing intellectually bankrupt here, just using the very definition of "atheist". Morality and Ethics is a different issue from Atheism.

[Spanner_works]

Oh how funny that people could twist logic! Again, apples to oranges. The relationship between Wednesday and Odin is not analogous to the relationship between a demon and God. Is Wednesday anti-thetical to Odin? Was there irony there? Didn't you get that example about, say, calling yourself a 'Negroboy' and then arguing that you're not racist? Hmm, I'm beginning to realise why you can swallow a Eucharist and still profess to be an atheist.

 

Again let us refer to your own words:

 

 

The concept of demons is inherently tied to religions. To use it and then deny the existence of what gave rise to such a concept just screams incoherence

 

I don't see any qualification here that the concept being used should be antithetical from "the existence of what gave rise to such a concept" before non-belief becomes incoherence. As a matter of fact, Wednesday is more closely tied to Odin than demons are to religion or God/s. Without Odin, there is no "Wednesday". Without religion, demons as a concept can still exist (only need a vivid imagination).

 

The argument you're using here is:

 

P1: To use a concept, one must also accept the validity of its source

P2: Demons are concepts which came from religion.

C: Therefore using concept of demons while denying religion is incoherent.

 

What I am addressing with the analogy is the wrongness of the first premise: that usage of a concept implies accepting the validity of its source. A point that you are conveniently ignoring by focusing on superficial differences between the analogy. Differences, which you never bothered to highlight in your earlier point.

 

 

 

 

Oh hmm, dictionary...wow. Not intellectually bankrupt yet your reference turned out to be a dictionary?!!! I wonder what would Hume, Sartre, et al would say about your brand of atheism founded on a dictionary entry.

 

Name dropping is not sufficient. Tell me what it is they will say about this definition (it's not a brand) of atheism. We are talking about definitions here, a dictionary is always a good place to start. You'll have to explain why that is intellectually bankrupt.

 

 

Oh well, atheists claim to operate entirely on reason. Hence, atheists are rightly measured by how rational their non-belief is; whatever it is, it has to stand the test of reason - it has to be self-consistent, coherent, and entirely logical. Hence, to claim that you're an atheist and then go on and attend an event that you claim to be irrational such as a mass just reflects the shallowness of that non-belief, which is pathetic than someone who admits to believing that somebody could walk on water.

That there is no evidence for the existence of a god is a pretty good reason for non-belief. Mass is a communal activity which has a very profound place in the lives of almost every Filipinos. One can choose to attend mass if he wants to be a well-functioning member of his community. Nothing irrational there.

 

 

You also conveniently ignore the analogy that earlier gave about student activists enjoying their BigMacs after staging an anti-American protest. I sincerely hope that this settles it for you. If you're still confused, then hmm, maybe pray. I heard from the grapevince that you sometimes get a revelation when you pray. That might help.

 

What about it? One can protest the activities of the American Government while accepting or loving American culture. The American Government is not the entirety of the American people. Heck the Americans themselves do protest the actions of their own government. Are they self-hating idiots?

[FleurDeLune]

Oh well, atheists claim to operate entirely on reason. Hence, atheists are rightly measured by how rational their non-belief is; whatever it is, it has to stand the test of reason - it has to be self-consistent, coherent, and entirely logical. Hence, to claim that you're an atheist and then go on and attend an event that you claim to be irrational such as a mass just reflects the shallowness of that non-belief, which is more pathetic than someone who admits to believing that somebody could walk on water.

It"s nice to see you back Alvin. Btw, airport-noo is not an atheist himself.

[airport-noo]

Oh well, atheists claim to operate entirely on reason. Hence, atheists are rightly measured by how rational their non-belief is; whatever it is, it has to stand the test of reason - it has to be self-consistent, coherent, and entirely logical. Hence, to claim that you're an atheist and then go on and attend an event that you claim to be irrational such as a mass just reflects the shallowness of that non-belief, which is more pathetic than someone who admits to believing that somebody could walk on water.

 

I can see that you hold atheists to a certain standard. What's the point in that? Not every believer is as faithful as a saint; nor every atheist as hardline as Christopher Hitchens. I suppose we non-believers should avoid bumping into you if we ever accompany friends or family to church. The last dozen times I was in church I was either a ninong to an inaanak or a friend to newlyweds. I don't know if anybody else detected the beating of my infidel heart but my kumpare's who know about it don't seem to mind. They even joke about it more than I do.