South China/West Philippine Sea

[camiar]

binenta na tayo sa china. at least based on the current scenario. unless biglang bumaliktad na naman ang stand natin, which is still a possibility given duterte's history.

You don't know what you're saying.

[perfectstranger]

You don't know what you're saying.

who are you to say what i know? hahaha

[camiar]

who are you to say what i know? hahaha

who, indeed?

 

Prove to us in this thread that our government sold us out to China.

 

Cite your "current scenarios" to prove your point.

 

Cite instances where the government reversed its stand on our sovereignty claims.

Edited October 20, 2017 by camiar

[perfectstranger]

what i cite and what i know are very different things. you can believe what you want.

 

the reality is really simple... what do we have to give up (or have already given up) to get this win-win solution? sure we benefit from joint exploration instead of getting nothing. i can't deny that. but we have to give up part of what is rightfully ours. so in that sense, yes, we are being sold out. not to mention the loans that will bury us in debt due to interest rates. but that's another topic so i won't dwell into it.

 

fishermen were allowed to fish in SS... ok, better than nothing. but we had to kiss china's ass and concede to their influence/power.

 

I'm not denying the fact that we do get something from this strategy, and maybe Duterte has something else planned. But like I said as things are now, that's how it looks like.

 

reversed its stand? I'm obviously talking about past vs present admin. and it can happen again given duterte's history of flip flopping. i hope it's clear now as you might have interpreted it differently.

[tk421]

What use is doing a joint exploration if we cannot even exploit whatever we find there, then?

[perfectstranger]

we can, but at a great cost. for some they think it's okay since it's better than nothing.

[Bolj]

Tactics and strategy are all part of it, lets see how it goes. Terms used by pessimists arenuseless

[tk421]

I still don't get it why we should enter into a joint exploration mission with China. If ever the exploration team finds something valuable there, it will only make China want it even more.

 

Better to leave it alone. It would be best for the environment.

[tk421]

Both parties? There's no 'we' in this regard.

 

China, having the more advance technology will exploit it, guard it with their navy and not let anyone else near it. We'll only get to use those resources when China has processed it and sold it back to us (if ever).

[tk421]

I quoted your post regarding the joint exploration then you suddenly shift to China guarding it and not let anyone else near it. Which is which? The joint exploration or China guarding it?

 

You should really read your previous reply first.

 

...both parties find something valuable, then both parties should use it for both their citizens. Why will you leave something valuable to be left untouched when it can benefit us?

 

Yes, leave it better to leave it untouched if we're not gonna benefit from it directly.

 

If and when we can extract hypothetical resource on our own, then only then should we explore it first.

 

But as it is right now, better not find out if there are resources hidden as it will just be another powder keg we'd have to deal with.

[perfectstranger]

we don't have the technology, but we can hire the services of investors who have the equipment. the issue here for some is why give china a piece of the pie when in fact we are the rightful owner. they rather choose that both parties get nothing.

 

now, there are people who think it's better to share than to get nothing at all. perhaps they are banking on china will treat us fairly. the other group doesn't think it'

possible for china to play fair. there's the saying that when you offer your hand the other party will take your whole arm.

 

both sides of the argument has its own merits. what i am wary of is china's ability to actually be fair and follow through with whatever agreement that will be made. we really have to be careful in dealing with the chinese government.

[tk421]

Heed your own advice. Read your post again and understand it.

If we are gonna have a joint exploration, then we get to benefit from it directly.

Do we have the resources and technology to do this on our own? I bet we have the same answer and the answer is "no".

How is it a powder keg?

 

We benefit from it, how?

 

Do we have the technology? No. That's why I'm saying not to do any "joint" exploration if it means we won't get to exploit it. How many times do I have to explain this?

 

If there are verified resources there, what do you think China will do with it? Allow us to exploit it? Ask for our permission before exploiting it themselves? Honestly?

[tk421]

When we do a joint exploration with China and we both find oil, then I would deduce that there would be a 50-50 sharing. You haven't answered my question. How is it a powder keg?

 

 

You would deduce?! And I've already answered it in my last post's last paragraph. Please review it.

 

 

That is why it is called a "joint exploration". You seem to be confused.

 

Is finding something and using something the same thing? Just because it's a joint exploration, doesn't mean they give us access to that resource when the time comes. It's different from joint exploitation.

 

 

That is why it is called a "joint exploration". You seem to be confused. Again, it is a joint exploration, hence, when both parties discover valuable natural resources like oil, both get to benefit from it. How sure are you that China will not allow us to exploit it when there is a joint exploration?

 

 

How sure are you that they will share it? Who's oil rig will be planted there if they do resources there, do you think?

 

In China's view: does that area belong to them or to the Philippines or to both? Are you really that naive to think China will just share "their" resources sitting on "their" lands with us?

 

*I used "their" to convey that China thinks that it rightfully belongs to them (it doesn't).

 

Really... at this point if you still don't get it, then I really don't know how to explain how the real world works to you.

[tk421]

Because there is a contract and a contract is legally binding.

 

...and you are implying that China will renege on its deal once they discover oil or something valuable.

 

Funny you should say that.

 

China signed a contract years ago.

 

And do you know what China thinks of that contract now?

Edited October 31, 2017 by tk421

[tk421]

The question should be: What does the Philippine president think of that contract now?

 

Youre replying to an answer from straw or from me? Im referring to the UNCLOS. A treaty/contract that they signed that, once decided against them think that the contract is garbage now.

 

As for contract 57. Why do you think theyve been sitting on it for so long? Is it because they deemed it so advantageous to us that they want to delay it as much as possible?

Edited October 31, 2017 by tk421