South China/West Philippine Sea

[rooster69ph]

 

I think we should but I don't think it will work as to China will give up the island completely. We can only use it as leverage on the bilateral talks with them to gain something out of it. China already heavily invested on it kaya di na ito babawi. If Trump wins only God knows what he will do so it will change all foreign policy completely.

 

so you are essentially criticizing Du30 for not going that route ... wherein he kiss the Chinese ass and broke of with the US instead of trying to "build" relationships with ally's that will put pressure on the Chinese to "give in" even though the probability is slim to none.

[juan t]

 

so you are essentially criticizing Du30 for not going that route ... wherein he kiss the Chinese ass and broke of with the US instead of trying to "build" relationships with ally's that will put pressure on the Chinese to "give in" even though the probability is slim to none.

 

 

DU30 is right in a way not to insist at the moment. China is still emotional about the decision. Who knows, maybe in time China will realize the consequences of not abiding by the rules and eventually comply. I just dont like the way he is destroying our relationship with the US because it seriously affects our bargaining position with China.

[rooster69ph]

 

 

DU30 is right in a way not to insist at the moment. China is still emotional about the decision. Who knows, maybe in time China will realize the consequences of not abiding by the rules and eventually comply. I just dont like the way he is destroying our relationship with the US because it seriously affects our bargaining position with China.

 

well yes, but hindi rin tama na ipagsigawan na wala tayong kalaban-laban at hindi tayo lalaban sa Tsina add to that yun sinabi mo ngang "pagsira" niya sa ralasyon natin sa mga Kano para sa ikatutuwa ng mga Tsino.

 

Ang akin sana status quo muna ... lets maintain cordial relationships with both parties (ie. China and US) and then ask China to allow our fishermen to fish without prejudice to the pending claim issues.

Edited November 4, 2016 by rooster69ph

[juan t]

Giving in by a superpower country like China from her adversaries will only show weakness on their leadership so I doubt international pressure will work. I'm not saying they should not do it but a communist/capitalist country with Russia backing up the stand of China will definitely not give it up. Letting the fishermen fish in SS are insignificant to China.

 

 

Yes some people might call it a long shot, but the thing is, we really don't have too many options do we? What else can we do if bilateral talks with China dont work out? (Remember, we have been talking to them for years without success before we finally decided to go to an arbiter)

[juan t]

 

well yes, but hindi rin tama na ipagsigawan na wala tayong kalaban-laban at hindi tayo lalaban sa Tsina add to that yun sinabi mo ngang "pagsira" niya sa ralasyon natin sa mga Kano para sa ikatutuwa ng mga Tsino.

 

 

True. Yun din ang nasa isip ko.

[rooster69ph]

 

 

Yes some people might call it a long shot, but the thing is, we really don't have too many options do we? What else can we do if bilateral talks with China dont work out? (Remember, we have been talking to them for years without success before we finally decided to go to an arbiter)

 

 

Tawag diyan paninindigan ...

 

manindigan ka sa tamang prinsipyo kahit na alam mong mahina ang pagasa makamtan ang minimithi ngunit dahil ito ang tama o isangla mo ang prinsipyo para makamit ang minimithi mo

[camiar]

 

 

Here's three:

 

http://globalnation.inquirer.net/141343/japan-ups-pressure-on-defiant-china

 

https://www.thestar.com/news/world/2016/07/26/us-japan-australia-slam-china-over-south-china-sea-after-weak-asean-ruling.html

 

http://asianjournal.com/news/us-india-urge-countries-to-respect-south-china-sea-ruling/

Did you read the links before posting them?

 

There's nothing there about any country stating their support for us and our cause. All there is are motherhood statements "urging all parties" to resolve the issues through legal process and diplomacy.

 

Did anybody officially say to China to stay out of the Philippines' Scarborough Shoal or else...? Did anybody officially tell the Philippines to go ahead and drive them out of Scarborough and I'll be right behind you...? Nobody. Our dispute with China is our own problem just as their dispute with China is their own.

 

Just to highlight the essence of what the articles you linked are really saying, read these excerpts:

 

"...Japan raised pressure on China at an Asia-Europe summit yesterday ..., but the meeting ended without direct mention of the dispute..."

 

"... Leaders of Asean have so far failed to issue a statement on the ruling, reportedly due to objections from member states with close ties to China..."

 

"...The United States, Japan and Australia have urged China not to construct military outposts and reclaim land in the disputed South China Sea,…. The three met in Vientiane on the sidelines of a series of meetings organized by the …ASEAN" - FYI: sideline joint statements don't count. Official joint statements at the end of the conference is what really counts.

 

"... during its meeting of foreign ministers on Sunday failed to take a stand against China because of disunity among themselves…. ASEAN became divided because of China’s divide-and-rule diplomacy ..."

 

Don't get me wrong. I am not siding with China.

 

I'm just pointing out that for now, China has the upper hand and all attempts at "international pressure" will not work.

 

But so far, Duterte's unconventional tactic got us our short-term wish list - to be get our fishermen to fish again around the Panatag Shoal.

 

We have our long-term ultimate wish list which includes our EEZ, but we're not ready to fight for that yet. We have to prepare and gather strength first..

Edited November 4, 2016 by camiar

[haroots2]

 

so you are essentially criticizing Du30 for not going that route ... wherein he kiss the Chinese ass and broke of with the US instead of trying to "build" relationships with ally's that will put pressure on the Chinese to "give in" even though the probability is slim to none.

 

I don't like what DU30 said against the US but you also don't know what did they agree on with their talks to conclude that we gave in. Sila lang nakakaalam nun diba so everything is just speculative.

[rooster69ph]

I don't like what DU30 said against the US but you also don't know what did they agree on with their talks to conclude that we gave in. Sila lang nakakaalam nun diba so everything is just speculative.

So you don't know duterte told the whole world na wala tayong kalaban laban sa china at hindi tayo lalaban? It's all over the news. If you know, you like what he said?

 

============

 

Let me tell you this .... Sa kayabangan ng presidente at ng kanyang fanatics, kung may napagkasunduan yan na positive o favorable sa atin matagal na nag leak yan. Unfortunately, all they can brag at this point is china allowed our fishermen to fish, they are still not allowed to go inside the shoal, chinese coast guard are still there while the philippines coast guard are no where in sight. All of these after the statement of the president above.

 

No speculations here...plain and simple facts.

[haroots2]

So you don't know duterte told the whole world na wala tayong kalaban laban sa china at hindi tayo lalaban? It's all over the news. If you know, you like what he said?

 

============

 

Let me tell you this .... Sa kayabangan ng presidente at ng kanyang fanatics, kung may napagkasunduan yan na positive o favorable sa atin matagal na nag leak yan. Unfortunately, all they can brag at this point is china allowed our fishermen to fish, they are still not allowed to go inside the shoal, chinese coast guard are still there while the philippines coast guard are no where in sight. All of these after the statement of the president above.

 

No speculations here...plain and simple facts.

 

So thats the only talked about? Wala kaming laban sa inyo talo na kami, pagbigyan mo na lang mangisda kami dyan. Okay thank you bye bye balik na kami sa Pinas.

[rooster69ph]

So thats the only talked about? Wala kaming laban sa inyo talo na kami, pagbigyan mo na lang mangisda kami dyan. Okay thank you bye bye balik na kami sa Pinas.

Tulad nun sinabi ko kung may ibang material na positive na napagusapan nilabas na yan sa press ng administrasyon. Pogi points yan di ba.

 

At dahil wala naman silang sinasabi o napabalita at ayaw nating magspeculate then the safe assumption is walang ibang material na napagusapan that is favorable to us.

 

Iba yun walang ibang material na napagusapan sa walang ibang pinagusapan. Maaring imbes na umuwi na agad sa Pinas eh napagusapan nila kung ano ang favorite food nila. kung ano ba ang PI in mandarin etc pero lahat ng ito di material sa atin di po ba? Yun lang yun.

Edited November 5, 2016 by rooster69ph

[camiar]

Tulad nun sinabi ko kung may ibang material na positive na napagusapan nilabas na yan sa press ng administrasyon. Pogi points yan di ba.

 

At dahil wala naman silang sinasabi o napabalita at ayaw nating magspeculate then the safe assumption is walang ibang material na napagusapan that is favorable to us.

 

Iba yun walang ibang material na napagusapan sa walang ibang pinagusapan. Maaring imbes na umuwi na agad sa Pinas eh napagusapan nila kung ano ang favorite food nila. kung ano ba ang PI in mandarin etc pero lahat ng ito di material sa atin di po ba? Yun lang yun.

Don't be naive. These are executive level discussions. Do not assume that nothing else in our favor was discussed. You were not there. And you will never know until they declassify the minutes of their meeting. Everything you say otherwise are just your biased speculation.

Edited November 5, 2016 by camiar

[rooster69ph]

Don't be naive. These are executive level discussions. Do not assume that nothing else in our favor was discussed. You were not there. And you will never know until they declassify the minutes of their meeting. Everything you say otherwise are just your biased speculation.

So tell me if there were other material beneficial matters discussed and granted why would they not disclose to the filipinos?

 

Dahil takot mailabas un katotohanan kung bakit napapayag?

[haroots2]

So tell me if there were other material beneficial matters discussed and granted why would they not disclose to the filipinos?

 

Dahil takot mailabas un katotohanan kung bakit napapayag?

 

Ang gusto mo lahat ng classified issues ilabas na? Bilateral talks with China and DU30 admin jsut started and it will not end on his last trip. It will be a continuous discussion kaya hindi pa dapat ipagyabang yung hindi pa final.

[rooster69ph]

 

Ang gusto mo lahat ng classified issues ilabas na? Bilateral talks with China and DU30 admin jsut started and it will not end on his last trip. It will be a continuous discussion kaya hindi pa dapat ipagyabang yung hindi pa final.

 

meron ba akong sinabing ilabas nila ang classified matters? Saan?

 

Ang sinasabi ko kung may material na napagkasunduan that will benefit us eh nailabas na yun. Tulad ng pagpayag na mangisda, although hindi hayagang sinabi ni Du30 na pumayag ang China na makapangisda tayo at kung sa anong terms nabanggit niya na just wait and our fishermen will be able to fish again.

 

At dahil nga walang ibang material na napagkasunduan eh hindi ba tama na wala ngang maipahayag o maipagyabang.