daphne loves derby Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 (edited) South China Sea ruling will 'intensify conflict' - Chinese envoyhttp://interaksyon.com/article/130279/south-china-sea-ruling-will-intensify-conflict---chinese-envoy The Permanent Court of Arbitration’s ruling denying China's claims in the South China Sea will "intensify conflict and even confrontation," Beijing's ambassador to the United States said on Tuesday. The ruling is significant as it is the first time that a legal challenge has been brought in the dispute. The court has no power of enforcement, but a victory for the Philippines could spur Taiwan, Vietnam, Malaysia and Brunei to file similar cases on their claims to the waters.China's Foreign Ministry rejected the tribunal's ruling, saying its people had more than 2,000 years of history in the South China Sea, that its islands did have exclusive economic zones and that it had announced to the world its "dotted line" map in 1948. Cui told the CSIS forum that China "will do everything possible to safeguard the unimpeded flow of commerce and stop any attempt to destabilize the region." Edited July 13, 2016 by daphne loves derby Quote Link to comment
hit05 Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 President Duterte stared work on this sea dispute long before he asumed office. He does not have military options that will be supported by his American ally. In other words, the Philippines cannot attack and create war. President Duterte would rather offer joint venture and make use of the structures in place rather than risk warfare by removing the facilities by force. Filipinos must keep in mind that China is not only expanding territory on this area but in other places as well. A few days ago, Indonesia attacked a stray Chinese vessel but that did not become war. Japan still got disputed territory and counter claims are completely ignored. Russia settled a territorial dispute but China is keeping friendly support by purchasing Russian military equipment, which is weak positioning in an event where Russia turns around and recover their islands. After making the US Navt send an additional fleet in Taiwan that will double the force stationed in Japan, no amount of diplomacy will remove China as major threat to the stability of the region. This is not to mention the British Navy, which once upon a time controlled the major sea lanes that China clams it got. Quote Link to comment
Erjan0101 Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 The US also rejected the decision of the ICJ (the same court that tried our case against China) when it was sued by Nicaragua. How do you compel China to respect the ruling as well? Oh well. I hope I don't get to experience a war in my lifetime. Quote Link to comment
baMbee🐝 Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 We won finally but it's still a long way. China will not give wa so we have to explore all options except losing a battle. Quote Link to comment
Joestar Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 Nanalo tayo sa paper war. Ang tanong pano makakatulong un? Quote Link to comment
Gringo* Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 Nanalo tayo sa paper war. Ang tanong pano makakatulong un? Now that we already won by paper.. I think UN will back us in any harassment the CHINA will do..This is great for our fisherman because they can sail and fish freely and that's what we are fighting all along. China can no longer bully us and if they used force..UN will definitely help us..Japan/Australian and even SEA will help BUT I PRAY TO GOD THIS THINGS WILL NEVER HAPPEN I rather expect Tatay Digong to do some chess match decision in a peaceful way which will benefit the whole nation. We can't go to war but I think our new President extremely got the balls and the brain to match China which they can't refuse.. OFFTOPIC: Ito ang gusto ko pag sinaktan mga mangingisda natin... MILF/NPA/ABU SAYYAF ang ipadadala natin or mostly like the 5 DRUG GENERAL AND THEIR NINJA TROOPS.. lolz Quote Link to comment
heatseeker0714 Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 (edited) The US also rejected the decision of the ICJ (the same court that tried our case against China) when it was sued by Nicaragua. How do you compel China to respect the ruling as well? Oh well. I hope I don't get to experience a war in my lifetime. The Nicaragua v. USA Case gives me hope... Yes, the US of A ignored the win of Nicaragua during the first few years until one by one, the countries that supported Uncle Sam dwindled due to the fact that, heck, Nicaragua won... it came to the point that on the Nicaragua v. US of A case, Israel was the last country on Uncle Sam's side but after a couple of months, The Israelis urged the US to swallow their pride and accept the decision... Which they did... We can wait out China... Nabuhay nga tayo ng Dekada ng hindi napapakinabangan kung ano man meron jan sa lugar na yan bukod sa Isda, pero and China hindi... Their economy is slowing, their citizenry are getting restless... They now have a middle class that can travel abroad and have access to uncensored news while outside their country... The seeds of doubt will be planted in their hearts and minds whenever they interact with other people and said people ask them their opinion on the recent ruling... Seeds that the current occupants of Zhongnanhai are terrified of... That's how we compel them... Make it clear that we can wait this out and they can't... Add to the fact that the other Asean Claimants can Sue on their own or just use this ruling for their own interests to hit back at China... Just look at Singapore who has been very tepid of open support to us prior to the decision, they are now openly urging the PRC to follow the decision... Edited July 13, 2016 by heatseeker0714 Quote Link to comment
heatseeker0714 Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 The most glaring FLAW that i have noticed with dismay with regard to the ordinary Filipino is this... Buying Brand New or Refurbished Equipment for our AFP and PCG = Us going to war with the PRC... I mean just look at the common sentiment of Filipinos in and out of Social Media... "Ang bobo-bobo nila Aquino bumili ng 12 Jet sa Korea eh ano naman laban nun sa LIBONG jets ng China.""Tuwang tuwa kayo sa 3 pinaglumaan ng US Coast Guard eh DAANG barko na missile equiped meron China.""Yung BRP Tarlac Brand New nga kaso 1 missile lang ng China yan." I mean, WTF... Buying equipment for our Servicemen and Women to use does not automatically equate with us going into a shooting war with anybody... Tama lang talaga sinabi ni Former Comelec Commissioner Sixto Brillantes... "Ang DAMI talagang mga BOBO na Filipino." Quote Link to comment
filibustero Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 Wala, kasama daw sa kaBOBOhan ni Aquino yan eh. Inept at wala daw ginawang tama yung tao the last 6 years, so ibig sabihin pati upgrading ng defense at patrol capabilities ng navy at coast guard ineptitude daw yun. Quote Link to comment
Soraoi_empire Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 The most glaring FLAW that i have noticed with dismay with regard to the ordinary Filipino is this... Buying Brand New or Refurbished Equipment for our AFP and PCG = Us going to war with the PRC... I mean just look at the common sentiment of Filipinos in and out of Social Media... "Ang bobo-bobo nila Aquino bumili ng 12 Jet sa Korea eh ano naman laban nun sa LIBONG jets ng China.""Tuwang tuwa kayo sa 3 pinaglumaan ng US Coast Guard eh DAANG barko na missile equiped meron China.""Yung BRP Tarlac Brand New nga kaso 1 missile lang ng China yan." I mean, WTF... Buying equipment for our Servicemen and Women to use does not automatically equate with us going into a shooting war with anybody... Tama lang talaga sinabi ni Former Comelec Commissioner Sixto Brillantes... "Ang DAMI talagang mga BOBO na Filipino." Pero mas ok na din yung meron kaysa sa wala. Ang mas kinakainisan ko ay yung mga naunang administrasyon. Imagine ilang years yun? Ramos, Estrada and Arroyo. If bawat administrasyon nila meron biniling mga ships, fighter jets, etc.. (Kay Arroyo yung BRP Del Pilar pero ang purpose naman nun ay para magbantay sa malampaya) e di sana kahit papano nasa minimum credible defense tayo Quote Link to comment
Soraoi_empire Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 Ang iniisip ko ngyon kung panu mababawi ng pinas ang scarborough shoal. Kinakabahan ako dyan kay Yasay parang hindi mapagkakatiwalaan. Yung mischief reef malabo na natin mabawi yun dahil hindi na bibitawan ng china yun maliban na lang kung magkagiyera madaling makukuha ng U.S. yun. And dapat matuloy na yung mga naka pending na oil and gas exploration sa recto bank. Kailangan na din i-repair yung runway sa pag-asa island. Siyempre lalo na yung mga troops natin sa Ayungin shoal parang anytime babagsak na yung barko natin dun kaya dapat maayos ng government natin yun. Quote Link to comment
Julianda Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 Ito lang masasabi ko, sa una pa lang mas pabor ang Tsina sa bilateral agreement kaysa sa idaan sa pakikipagusap sa ASEAN group o idulog sa tribunal. Kaya di na nakapagtataka kung bakit di sumipot ang representative ng Tsina habang dinidinig pa lamang ang arbitration case. Mas may bentahe na tayo kumpara sa ibang mga kalapit-bansa natin na nag-aangkin din ng teritoryo, ngayong pumabor ang UN sa atin. At mas may basehan na rin tayo para panindigan yung karapatan natin sa pinag-aagawang karagatan. At kung hindi ako nagkakamali, ang pagpabor sa atin ng UN hindi nangangahulugan na umaayon and UN sa kung ano yung inaangkin natin. Ang sa kanila ay ruling o resolusyon lamang sa sovereign rights natin. Bagama’t nanalo tayo, hindi pa panahon para magbunyi. Lalo na sa nasa poder kagaya ng kasalukuyang administrasyon. Nasa kanila ngayon ang matinding pressure. Para sa kanila, hindi pwede ang magpadalos-dalos ng desisyon. Kaya tama lang na idinaan ng nakaraang administrasyon sa diplomasya sa pamamagitan ng pag file ng kasong arbitraryo laban sa Tsina para maisaalang-alang ang kapayapaan. Kung tutuusin malaking kredito ito para kay Pnoy (bagama’t di sang-ayon sa kanya ang karamihan [kasama na ako dun] sa estilo ng pamumuno nya) at siguro pwedeng isipin na legacy nya. Pero matatawag nga bang legacy? Pwede rin siguro. Sa mga meron kasi, sabi nila disbentahe ang sobrang diplomasyang ginawa kaya napabayaang nakapagpatayo ang Tsina ng sarili nilang “isla” sa Spratly . Kayo na lang humusga. Kung iniisip natin paano maaalis yung itinayong “isla” (ibig lang sabihin teritoryo nila yun at magkakagyera muna bago makuha sa kanila) yan ngayon ang malaking katanungan. Yung ruling nga na pumabor sa atin, di nila matanggap, yun pa kayang isipin kung paano natin mabubura ang islang yun. lol Quote Link to comment
heatseeker0714 Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 (edited) Ang iniisip ko ngyon kung panu mababawi ng pinas ang scarborough shoal. Kinakabahan ako dyan kay Yasay parang hindi mapagkakatiwalaan. Yung mischief reef malabo na natin mabawi yun dahil hindi na bibitawan ng china yun maliban na lang kung magkagiyera madaling makukuha ng U.S. yun. And dapat matuloy na yung mga naka pending na oil and gas exploration sa recto bank. Kailangan na din i-repair yung runway sa pag-asa island. Siyempre lalo na yung mga troops natin sa Ayungin shoal parang anytime babagsak na yung barko natin dun kaya dapat maayos ng government natin yun. Hindi mo mababawi ng syento porsyento yung Bajo de Masinloc... I've been reading PCA Case No. 2013-19 for the past 2 nights... Ang sabi nila, the Chinese, just like the Filipinos have fished traditionally in BdM... The most that we can do is beef-up our PCG with modern assets to guard the place but we cannot prevent their fishermen from also catching marine resources there... Yung BdM issue parang nag -iwas pusoy yung PCA eh... "Pareho kayong pwede mangisda jan" one group can not prevent the other from going there... Which was verified by Zambales Fishermen when the Chinks were closing down BdM from Filipino Fishermen when one of them were interviewed by ABS-CBN... Not verbatim but i remembered the gist of what he said... "Dati naman open sa lahat yang Scarborough, Filipino, Chinese... Nagkakasabay pa kami ng mga yan, nagkakawayan pa nga at minsan barter ng kailangang gamit sa mga kakilala na naming mangingisda nila, nito nga lang naghigpit na yung Coast Guard nila..." Ito lang masasabi ko, sa una pa lang mas pabor ang Tsina sa bilateral agreement kaysa sa idaan sa pakikipagusap sa ASEAN group o idulog sa tribunal. Kaya di na nakapagtataka kung bakit di sumipot ang representative ng Tsina habang dinidinig pa lamang ang arbitration case. Mas may bentahe na tayo kumpara sa ibang mga kalapit-bansa natin na nag-aangkin din ng teritoryo, ngayong pumabor ang UN sa atin. At mas may basehan na rin tayo para panindigan yung karapatan natin sa pinag-aagawang karagatan. At kung hindi ako nagkakamali, ang pagpabor sa atin ng UN hindi nangangahulugan na umaayon and UN sa kung ano yung inaangkin natin. Ang sa kanila ay ruling o resolusyon lamang sa sovereign rights natin. Bagama’t nanalo tayo, hindi pa panahon para magbunyi. Lalo na sa nasa poder kagaya ng kasalukuyang administrasyon. Nasa kanila ngayon ang matinding pressure. Para sa kanila, hindi pwede ang magpadalos-dalos ng desisyon. Kaya tama lang na idinaan ng nakaraang administrasyon sa diplomasya sa pamamagitan ng pag file ng kasong arbitraryo laban sa Tsina para maisaalang-alang ang kapayapaan. Kung tutuusin malaking kredito ito para kay Pnoy (bagama’t di sang-ayon sa kanya ang karamihan [kasama na ako dun] sa estilo ng pamumuno nya) at siguro pwedeng isipin na legacy nya. Pero matatawag nga bang legacy? Pwede rin siguro. Sa mga meron kasi, sabi nila disbentahe ang sobrang diplomasyang ginawa kaya napabayaang nakapagpatayo ang Tsina ng sarili nilang “isla” sa Spratly . Kayo na lang humusga. Kung iniisip natin paano maaalis yung itinayong “isla” (ibig lang sabihin teritoryo nila yun at magkakagyera muna bago makuha sa kanila) yan ngayon ang malaking katanungan. Yung ruling nga na pumabor sa atin, di nila matanggap, yun pa kayang isipin kung paano natin mabubura ang islang yun. lol 1.) Talagang pabor sila sa Bilateral kase kung susuriin mong mabuti yung WPS issue sa mata ng Gobyerno ng Tsina, parating ambiguous ang posisyon nila para hindi talaga maayos ang sigalot na yan... Kase pag kinakailangan nilang ma-distract ang mga mamamayan nila, yan ang ibinabandera nila for their citizens to temporarily forget their shortcomings and rally behind them... It is not in the interests of the Communist Party of China for the WPS issue to be resolved... Si FVR, Erap, Gloria at unang 2 taon ng Adminstrasyong Aquino, Bilateral na ginawa natin, kulang na nga lang sipsipsin ni Gloria butas ng pwet ni Hu Jintao eh, pero wala pa ding nangyari... Same with Abnoy, they were ecstatic at first that a fellow Chinese won the Philippine Presidency in 2010, kala nila tuloy-tuloy ang ligaya ala-Gloria years eh kaso sinagad nila si Abnoy... 2.) I agree 3.) I agree again... The PCA did not award us any territories, but they invalidated China's absurd 9-Dash Line Claim... In layman's terms, "Hoy China, hindi sayo yan... mag-usap-usap kayo at huwag mong solohin yan... 4.) I agree 5.) Hindi "Siguro pwedeng isipin na legacy nya." Legacy nya talaga satin yan. napakalaking Alas ang iniwan nya para sa mga susunod na Administrarsyon. Yes apparently one of the ineptitudes of the previous administration was to acquire ships for the Philippine Navy and Coast Guard in view of China's claims over the West Philippine Sea. Those fools. Heatseeker would probably know the specifics of the ships delivered and still to be delivered. For the Philippine Navy, Vessels acquired during the Abnoy's term that are capable of Patrolling our EEZ are the 3 Hamilton Class High Endurance Cutters from the US Coast Guard namely: BRP Gregorio Del Pilar PF-15BRP Ramon Alcaraz PF-16And the third promised Hamilton that Obama announced last November 2015. Parating pa lang. Then if push comes to shove, you have the 2 Tarlac Class LPDs bought Brand New from Indonesia of which, BRP Tarlac is already here with the 2nd vessel (which i'm guessing will be christened BRP Davao) will be due by September next year... Push comes to shove ha... The Tarlac Class are not Combatants but are Sealift Vessels, yun lang they are capable of going out to our EEZ naman pag nagka-gipitan unlike most PN Vessels. Then the upcoming (I hope) 2 Brand New Incheon Class Frigates from the Land of the Morning Southern Kimchi. Five Brand New Helicopters were also purchased and are already here for the Philippine Navy, the Agusta Westland 109s... 2 are unarmed for Training purposes and 3 armed for Fleet and Marine support purposes which I guess will be based on the Del Pilars. Two upcoming Brand New Agusta Westland 159 Future Lynx Anti-Submarine Warfare Helicopters which methinks will be based on the 2 upcoming Incheons... Sa PCG naman the only vessels worth mentioning are the Four 56 Meter Tenix from Australia Search And Rescue Vessels bought brand new during Erap's and Gloria's terms... SARV 1 BRP San Juan (Arrived when Erap was President)SARV 2 BRP Edsa Dos (Arrived when La Gloria was President)SARV 3 BRP Pampanga (Sipsip ulit kay Gloria, masisisi mo ba PCG, kailangan ng funds eh... ).SARV 4 BRP Batangas (Sipsip kay then Executive Secretary Eduardo Ermita) Plus another Four 35 Meter boats also brand new from Tenix Australia BRP Ilocos Norte, BRP Nueva Vizcaya, BRP Romblon and BRP Davao Del Norte. Then you have the Ten 44 Meter Patrol Boats we got Brand New from Japan through soft pamigay loans courtesy of the Abe-Aquino Bromance... The first is BRP Tubbataha which is already completed and currently undergoing sea trials in Japan with 9 more to go. Also di ko lang alam status, 3-5 brand new choppers din for the PCG The Bureau of Fisheries and Aquatic Resources received a number (di ko na maalala) of Civilian MCS (Monitoring, Control and Surveillance) Ships around 35 Meters each from Spain during Gloria's time... Ito yung na-involve sa Batanes shooting last year... the PCG and BFAR have a MOA with these vessels... The BFAR owns the ships but PCG men and women crew them... Galing diba, Synergy... PCG is short of ships while BFAR is short of Man/Womanpower kaya ayon... Edited September 19, 2016 by TheSmilingBandit Quote Link to comment
-DELETED- Posted July 14, 2016 Share Posted July 14, 2016 The hard part comes after winning in the international court. Para kang nag papaalis ng squatter sa lupain mo. But this time, yung squatter ang mas mayaman, mas makapangyarihan kesa sayo. Lalo na they can wager a war against us. Tapos tayo umaasa lang sa tulong ng ibang bansa, which is sad reality. Ang tanging pang hahawakan lang natin ay ang thinking na hindi nag papa under ang china at hindi gumagalang sa international laws which is morally accepted by other countries, kaya ma threaten ang big countries and will force them to help us against china. Bully talaga ang china, malayo na yan sakanila eh, dapat mapigilan sila but I'm still hoping na hindi mag kaka gera. Useless bloodshed pag nagkataon. Kaya natin manalo sa war dahil sa tulong ng iba, pero hindi natin kaya protektahan lahat ng buhay na pwedeng mawala. Quote Link to comment
niceNslow.2 Posted July 14, 2016 Share Posted July 14, 2016 shut up na lang ako dito, nabully ako sa fb dahil sa issue na to eh Quote Link to comment
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