South China/West Philippine Sea

[camiar]

Japan is also an island archipelago but they have Apaches and so does Singapore. In the event that an invading country lands in the Spratlys, you would need Apaches to take out the tanks, APCs and personnel trucks that will be transported by landing crafts.

All the islands in the Spratlys are too small to be defensible from within the island. An invading force will pound the island to oblivion with ship-launched cruise missiles and and attack bombers with air-to-surface missiles before sending the landing force. By that time they set foot on the shore I doubt if any defender in the island would still be alive.

 

To defend the islands, you'd need warships forming a defensive perimeter hundreds of kilometers in radius and air assets enforcing a no-fly-zone. Apache helicopters would not be on the list of assets you'd use for defense in this case.

 

We do not have this defensive capability at the moment, that's why now is the time to start building up our strength.

Edited September 19, 2016 by camiar

[heatseeker0714]

Ok but I would still prefer the "badass" hardware that the Apache is. If you want a gunship for soft targets, the AFP can purchase the A-10 Warthog, another "badass" hardware.

In spite of this, China has been able to build structures in our islands, the Spratlys in particular. Of course, it would need an act of aggression from China in order for this treaty to kick in.

 

Badass???? A-10 for soft targets??? The A-10s are heavy hitters also, anti-tank din yan the only difference between them and the apaches are that they are fixed wing aircraft as opposed to the apaches that are rotary wing... Yan yung preference mo but do we actually need them? You have to remember that the Modernization of the AFP is not just buying all the fancy gizmos but also the rationalization of use of our limited funds.

 

Kaya nga sabi ko Mainland Philippines eh...

Yes, there is an MDT but I wouldn't depend on it heavily. We have to "be our own man." The US won't be always there to help us. The seas would not be an impediment for China's imperialist dreams.

 

Hindi naman na tayo dumedepende heavily sa MDT. Just look at our recent purchases of brand new equipment and from whom we buy them. I referred to our MDT to contrast our situation vis-a-vis Singapore.

It is not ok if we lose any of our primary islands. I can't imagine the Chinese annexing any part of Luzon, Visayas or Mindanao. Duterte will never allow our space to be taken by an imperialist country.

 

Of course it's not ok. What i'm pointing out is that we have space to trade for time. Singapore does not. Duterte??? Kahit magtutuwad yang si Duterte theoretically if another Asian country to our north west do invade us, walang magagawa kaagad yang si Duterte.

[heatseeker0714]

Natatawa na lang ako sa kalidad ng mga rebuttal... meron na lang mai-post eh hano...

[camiar]

Which is why I suggested air superiority fighters like the F-15. As for the naval hardware, I think another country is offering us a couple of ships. I think it was Japan. I would still purchase Apaches for future use if it can't be used in the Spratlys.

 

The F-15s cost close to US$100M today. F-15 is a great plane but it's overkill for our defense needs. Even if we could buy one, we can't afford its operating cost and our Air Force do not have the infrastructure to maintain such a plane.

 

For that amount we could buy 2 or 3 light combat aircraft (LCA) configured for air superiority missions. That's where the JAS-39 Gripen, F-16 Falcon, or IAI Kfirs come in.

 

Remember, we have to live within our limited budget. Acquiring F-15 is like buying a Mercedes-Benz for the role that a Toyota Corolla can do just as well.

[camiar]

Duterte said it himself. He would rather purchase expensive but quality hardware. The A-10 Warthog can be used as close air support against troops since it is low-flying.

Who wouldn't want to have an A-10? But an Embraer Super Tucano can do close air support (CAS) just as well for our situation.

 

That's the PhAF's choice.

 

A propeller-driven Super Tucano can loiter for 4 to 6 hours for CAS missions. The turbofan-powered A-10 can probably loiter for two hours or less and will rely heavily on aerial refueling to extend its loiter time.

Edited September 21, 2016 by camiar

[camiar]

If you think that we have space to trade for time, that is your opinion but Duterte will never allow that. Anong gagawin mo sa mga nakuhang areas? Will you let the invaders pillage that area and massacre the people in that area? As if may magagawa si Mar Roxas. Let's face it, Duterte is a stronger and much better leader than Roxas.

 

Our defense doctrine has nothing to do with the personality of the President.

 

An effective President would defer to the defense experts and professionals in implementing our defense philosophies and strategies. Planning and maintaining our defense capabilities are done behind the scenes by dedicated people under the DoD and they continually review and update the defense plans. It takes years of study and planning to get the needs of Army, Navy, and Air Force to synch and complement each other.

 

Giving up territories to the enemy to bide for time to regroup, wait for reinforcements, and re-mobilize to counter attack is a strategy used effectively for thousands of years in history. In our case, if we are invaded, we can give up certain territories and dig-in to make a stand to bide for time for our allies to mobilize and help us.

 

But we have to make sure our allies are willing to help us out.

 

During WW2, we gave up Manila to the Japanese without a fight (declared it an open city), retreated to Bataan to dig-in and bide for time until the 10-mile long convoy of ships from America arrives to relieve our defenders. It never arrived.

Edited September 21, 2016 by camiar

[Mr.XO]

Can we afford to get into any heated argument with China?
What would the UN do to China now that the verdict has been given?

How did this even start?

Edited September 21, 2016 by xoxo28

[camiar]

1. That's your preference but the question is: Would that be enough against the Chinese? My take is when you purchase hardware, your purchase the best.

2. I didn't say anything about the defense doctrine. I was commenting on what the poster said on trading space for time.

 

1. That's not my preference. It is the Phil Air Force's preference. I assume they know what they want. Based on what I read about the Super Tucano, they may be right in their choice.

 

2. Trading space for time is one of the defense doctrines.

[camiar]

Then what is the AFP Modernization Program for? If you're gonna purchase military hardware, you might as well purchase the quality hardware.

Read the next two line of my post. We don't need F-15 no matter how sexy it looks.

 

F-15 is overkill and incompatible with our defense needs. They are for enemy air defense suppression (EADS) and attack missions.

 

We need simpler and lighter combat aircraft for interception and air superiority roles.

 

I heard of the F-16s being considered but I don't know why the AFP hasn't been able to bring it in.

We have just placed an order for 12 FA-50s. The FA-50 are Lead-in Fighter Training (LIFT) aircraft.

We have to wait for the FA-50 order to be completed and have enough pilots to be trained to fly supersonic fighter jets before we go to the next stage of buying the multi-role fighters. Anyway, right now the evaluation for which fighter to buy for the next stage is already being done.

If I were the PhAF, I will not consider the F-16s because it is no longer in production. I'd rather have the Swedish JAS-39 Gripens. But if Northrup would consider reviving the production of F-20 Tigershark, I would choose the F-20s over the the other contenders. It is as capable as the F-16 but is 30% cheaper and cost half as much to operate.

[camiar]

A risky defense strategy which may result in total annexation of an area. I believe this is more of strategy and not doctrine.

The Americans did that to us during WW2. They allowed Japan to occupy the Philippines for 4 years because they are too busy fighting the Germans in Europe and they need time to build up their armed forces for the Pacific war. General MacArthur allowed the Japanese to occupy Manila unopposed on the premise that once the reinforcement from America arrives, they can retake Manila in the counteroffensive.

 

I don't know whether strategy or doctrine is the proper term. Military doctrine is defined functionally as concepts, principles, policies, tactics, techniques, practices, and procedures which are essential to efficiency in organizing, training, equipping, and employing its tactical and service unit.

Edited September 21, 2016 by camiar

[rhd231067]

Bakit hindi magawang murahin ni digong ang china?

ina-agawan na tayo ng teritoryo, karamihan na druglord intsik,

ang ibang illegal drugs galing china

tapus ngayon may plano pa na sa china bibili ng mga armas

hahaha

[camiar]

You are talking of the American perspective. The thing is the US did not have an inch of the continental United States taken by the enemy, not even Alaska and Hawaii. The Philippines was not even a vassal state but a staunch ally. If there was no America and the Axis won the war, Japan would have annexed us.

 

Now, if the treaty is invoked by RP and strictly enforced by the US, then we don't need to worry about an inch of Luzviminda being taken by the Chinese.

No, I'm not talking about American perspective.

 

I'm only explaining my understanding of Heatseeker's "trading space for time" as a military defense doctrine/strategy where in the face of an overwhelming enemy advance, you retreat to preserve your forces, allowing the enemy to capture territories. Your intent is to slow down the enemy advance, preserve your forces while waiting for the reinforcements to arrive. At the right time when you have regrouped, reinforced, and re-consolidated, you mount a counter attack to recapture the territory you previously lost. That's all about it. Trading space for time.

[camiar]

Trading space for time will only be an effective strategy if you have the resources and technology to counter an enemy or, in our case in WW2, if we have a powerful ally to back us up. The worst-case scenario is the US not enforcing the MDT despite of our invoking it.

 

The Byzantine Empire was annexed by the Ottoman Empire (modern day Turkey) and were not able to get it back in spite of numerous allies with them.

It will be effective if you have the resources, allies, and the ability to bring both your resources and your allies together within the time before the enemy can consolidate its hold on the territory it captured from you.

[everyman]

Duterte: China claims over sea made 'in good faith'

 

 

 

is President Duterte officially recognizing China's Nine Dash Line? mga interpreters .... PASOK!

 

 

[camiar]

Duterte: China claims over sea made 'in good faith'

 

 

 

is President Duterte officially recognizing China's Nine Dash Line? mga interpreters .... PASOK!

 

 

He does not.

 

As President, DU30 has no choice but to support the Arbitral Tribunal's ruling which does not recognize China's nine-dashed-line "historical" claim and instead favors the Philippines' UNCLOS continental-shelf definition as basis for our claims. We also have valid historical claims backed up with stronger documentary evidence that what the Chinese have, and at the same time, we have submitted strong arguments with historical data that disprove China's "historical" claims.

 

But obviously we are militarily and economically too weak to directly confront China to enforce the ruling. We still have to do it through diplomatic maneuvering. Winning the hearts and minds of the Chinese in part of the equation.

 

All DU30's talk is to project an independent stand in international policy and create an impression to the ordinary Chinese people that the Philippines is getting friendlier and warming up closer to China.

 

The Chinese government, of course, knows that DU30's statements are merely crude attempts at pretending to be independent from the US. But the ordinary Chinese don't know that.

 

It helps a lot in China's internal politics if the Chinese citizenry hear his statements, become less antagonistic against the Philippines so that they will not create an uproar if their government backs down on its aggressiveness in South China Sea and agree to concessions favorable to the Philippines.

Edited September 23, 2016 by camiar

[NooB]

He does not.

 

As President, DU30 has no choice but to support the Arbitral Tribunal's ruling which does not recognize China's nine-dashed-line "historical" claim and instead favors the Philippines' UNCLOS continental-shelf definition as basis for our claims. We also have valid historical claims backed up with stronger documentary evidence that what the Chinese have, and at the same time, we have submitted strong arguments with historical data that disprove China's "historical" claims.

 

But obviously we are militarily and economically too weak to directly confront China to enforce the ruling. We still have to do it through diplomatic maneuvering. Winning the hearts and minds of the Chinese in part of the equation.

 

All DU30's talk is to project an independent stand in international policy and create an impression to the ordinary Chinese people that the Philippines is getting friendlier and warming up closer to China.

 

The Chinese government, of course, knows that DU30's statements are merely crude attempts at pretending to be independent from the US. But the ordinary Chinese don't know that.

 

It helps a lot in China's internal politics if the Chinese citizenry hear his statements, become less antagonistic against the Philippines so that they will not create an uproar if their government backs down on its aggressiveness in South China Sea and agree to concessions favorable to the Philippines.

Totoo ba yan? O interpretasyon mo lang?

[everyman]

^ Typical of any Duterte pronouncement cum rant cum off-the-cuff remarks, everybody is free to make his own interpretation. Sabi nga ni Abella, "use your creative imagination"

[gamehunter]

Looks like treason...

 

http://globalnation.inquirer.net/146529/duterte-says-ph-cant-win-in-scarborough-shoal

[camiar]

Totoo ba yan? O interpretasyon mo lang?

 

That's realpolitik - political principles based on practical rather than moral or ideological considerations.

 

Sa tingin mo ba merong hindi totoo sa nabasa mo?

Edited October 11, 2016 by camiar

[Kapote]

Looks like treason...

 

http://globalnation.inquirer.net/146529/duterte-says-ph-cant-win-in-scarborough-shoal

 

Care to explain where is the treason in that?

[batman-robin]

wala sana tayong problema kung nandyan pa yung us base sa subic. nagkaproblema lang naman tayo nung umalis yung mga kano dyan at nung nawala saka na sumingit yung mga intsik. blame it on the senators who voted to get rid of the bases without thinking of the implications. kulang sila sa foresight. just making an opinion.

[nobody15]

this issue cannot be resolved in this lifetime, the country needs to have a strong resolved if they want have it

[everyman]

Duterte's position on China's territorial claim becoming clear

 

 

Duterte on Filipinos' fishing rights in Scarborough Shoal: 'I leave it to the Chinese authorities'

[rooster69ph]

Duterte's position on China's territorial claim becoming clear

 

 

 

Duterte on Filipinos' fishing rights in Scarborough Shoal: 'I leave it to the Chinese authorities'

I guess there goes one of his campaign promise .... Yun mag jet ski papuntang china para ipaglaban ang karapatan ng pilipinas.

 

He surely hates being a lap dog of the US but seems warm to being one of the Chinese.

[camiar]

 

Duterte's position on China's territorial claim becoming clear

 

 

Duterte on Filipinos' fishing rights in Scarborough Shoal: 'I leave it to the Chinese authorities'

 

 

 

The entire statement describes that the President pointed out that he will "leave it to Chinese authorities, what they will do in the next few days from now."

The report continued that:

"...Duterte said he raised it in "private talks" and did not elaborate further..."

"....Moments before, the President said that both countries "agreed to continue discussions on confidence-building measures, including a bilateral consultation mechanism to discuss immediate issues of concern in South China Sea...."

Ang ibig sabihin, me pinag-usapan sila na highly confidential kaya hindi nya sinabi sa Press. Yung resulta ng pinagusapan nila will be shown in Chinese's actions in the next few days.

CNN made its banner in such a way that the casual reader will get the impression that Duterte is bowing down to the Chinese.

Edited October 22, 2016 by camiar