God's moral code

[skitz]

I would not k*ll everyone with HIV in order to curb the spread of the disease, since those people can still contribute to society. Quarantine them and let them work the fields or something, away from the rest of the population so they can't infect anyone else, but at the same time contribute something for the betterment of everybody else.

 

Killing them is the simple solution, but most of the times, the simple solution is wasteful.

 

This, without a god moral code, is indeed a practical solution. However, personally, I would only keep around a thousand for research purposes. Keeping more than that, I believe, is superfluous. Using the SICK for cheap labor is not cost effective.

[skitz]

1) In the real world it can't be kept a secret. I think I made that clear.

How many in North Korea knows that communism has been dead all these years except in their own country and Cuba? You can't keep something a secret in the world as we know it right now. But in another system, a meritocracy, where the learned men CONTROLS everything, what is broadcast by the government is what is true.

 

 

2) Also in the real world, they'll always have a purpose as research subjects or whatever. That will never go away.

 

All right. Keep a thousand for research purposes. More than that is superfluous.

 

3) In a god-less moral code, it doesn't matter if the reason they're alive is because of the "sacredness" of the human life or not. As long as they're alive.

 

No. You either debunk my premise or create your own moral code (that is what this exercise is all about). According to my version of "meritocracy", what is good for humanity is what is true. If you are no longer contributing to what is good for humanity, and in fact, is now a THREAT to all of humanity, your existence is no longer required. And because you are a THREAT, your termination is in fact GOOD FOR HUMANITY.

[skitz]

Daming pi-nost ni vherr, wala akong ma gets kung ano ang point. Ano ba? Anong moral code ba dapat vherr? Do we k*ll HIV infected patients or not? Give the reason or a moral code to support your answer. Yun lang. Wag nang mag copy paste ng mga OPINION ng ibang tao. Pakita mong meron kang sariling pag-iisip.

[artvader]

How many in North Korea knows that communism has been dead all these years except in their own country and Cuba? You can't keep something a secret in the world as we know it right now. But in another system, a meritocracy, where the learned men CONTROLS everything, what is broadcast by the government is what is true.

 

I disagree. As I said before, you CANNOT control everything. Unless you're God.

 

Secrets will come out even in those countries you speak of. Surely you've heard of people defecting from said communist countries because they know that they're more free there?

 

All right. Keep a thousand for research purposes. More than that is superfluous.

 

That's fine... in an ideal world. A world without chaos.

 

No. You either debunk my premise or create your own moral code (that is what this exercise is all about). According to my version of "meritocracy", what is good for humanity is what is true. If you are no longer contributing to what is good for humanity, and in fact, is now a THREAT to all of humanity, your existence is no longer required. And because you are a THREAT, your termination is in fact GOOD FOR HUMANITY.

 

If it's a visible threat, then there's no problem. Do we have ways to monitor ALL of the HIV infected people out there? That's the dilemma we're facing here. If you systematically k*ll them off, but fail to exterminate ALL of them (and believe me, there are much more HIV positive people out there than we know), you'll be left with infected people waging a silent war that could augment the rate of infection.

[skitz]

So what you are saying is that your moral code is based on LOGISTICS? Ahm. ok.

Edited December 10, 2010 by skitz

[skitz]

Look Artvader, in the current justice system (moral code), armed robbery will forfeit your right to freedom. That the law enforcement authorities are not able to jail all armed robbers, that in fact, most of them are in hiding and are desperate that they are liable to shoot anyone who tries to find them DOES NOT CHANGE the moral code that they should be jailed.

 

Ano ulit and moral justification mo bakit dapat buhayin pa ang HIV positive patients (without the God moral code)?

Edited December 10, 2010 by skitz

[skitz]

Look people. There is a LOGICAL part of me that is an ATHEIST(agnostic), as I have stated time and again. And believe me, if I didn't believe in God, I would really support the total extermination of all HIV patients, especially in the early 80s when the infection was still limited to a few (and the Philippines was without one single incidence). Ang hindi ko ma-gets, kung talagang ATHEIST ka nga, at naniniwala sa LOGIC, PRACTICALITY, PRAGMATISM, etc, why can't you embrace the fact that this is the logical conclusion to that problem?

 

Are you just like that confused girl-atheist on youtube who turned to atheism because "the church does not allow gay marriages"? SCIENCE, LOGIC, REASONING, etc. You do not make CLAIMS to these attributes -- you DEMONSTRATE these attributes.

[CerebralScorpion]

This, without a god moral code, is indeed a practical solution. However, personally, I would only keep around a thousand for research purposes. Keeping more than that, I believe, is superfluous. Using the SICK for cheap labor is not cost effective.

 

In the given situation, there is always a use for everyone, even those who are so sick that they can no longer move. The 'make them work the fields' is just one thing they can do, which is why I also added 'or something'.

 

Those who can work, will work in isolation, it does not even need to be hard labor. Those who are not able to work anymore, will be cared for and given everything they need. Why? A nation is most productive if their citizen are happy. If the people see that their government cares for all of them, even to those dying of AIDS, they will work harder for their country.

 

One can always find something practical to do with a person as long as they live.

[skitz]

Well, ok. Work them till they drop dead. Make sure they don't infect anyone else. Then use them as fertilizer.

[dungeonbaby]

lol i feel your pain.

[CerebralScorpion]

I believe that is the most practical reasoning to keep them alive without using what is set as the 'god-moral' in the exercise you stated. You get the same end result as a government who makes decisions based on their conscience instead of what is logical.

 

I don't personally buy this line of thinking myself, but one needs to work within the confines of a given scenario of course.

[JHP]

lol i feel your pain.

 

Me too! And i have a nosebleed.

[cbr600rr]

The opinions stated really proved to be interesting reading.

 

I wondered what it would be like if I lived in a world led and managed by cranially gifted people who are practical and pragmatic and who'd seek to run the world at it's most efficient with a utilitarian attitude about most things. There'd probably be no traffic in EDSA, less crimes in the street, no pedicabs and kuligligs in Manila, beggars on the streets, and things would be more efficient, clean, and safe.

 

I think I'd probably be far more productive. But will I be happier ? Hard for me to say at this time.

[cbr600rr]

As it is, our world's a bit messed up ....

 

We don't k*ll HIV patients despite the danger they pose because of RESPECT FOR HUMAN LIFE.

We can't get dispose of our squatters and beggars because of COMPASSION.

We can't jail just anybody suspected of committing a crime because of DUE PROCESS.

We can't just ship out our lolo's and lola's somewhere they won't bother us, because of RESPECT FOR THE ELDERLY.

 

.... so many other things that make our world so inefficient because we can't be practical, pragmatic, and utilitarian - as proposed by some others.

 

It's not a perfect world. But it's still a wonderful world, just as the song says.

 

And looking back, the things and attributes that make it a wonderful world appear to be what some people may call "God's moral code".

 

For me the practical and pragmatic approach has not been proven yet, as I haven't really seen any cranially gifted practical and pragmatic group of individuals produce a perfect society yet.

 

What I have witnessed, however is an imperfect society, made less miserable by people of COMPASSION and RESPECT FOR LIFE.

Edited December 11, 2010 by cbr600rr

[skitz]

^^ And that cbr600rr is what makes us HUMAN. We are not cattle, raised in the most efficient manner, genetically bred to produce the most milk and/or meat. It is living by GOD'S MORAL CODE that separates us from the rest of the animals.

[vheRR]

Daming pi-nost ni vherr, wala akong ma gets kung ano ang point.

 

Naks ...

 

... wala ka kamong ma-gets,

 

... pero si jhp, bakit "NA-GETS"?,

 

"Ah, Skitz, i'm sure our esteemed acquaintance VHeR will have a response in verse. i think he's been trying to say that morality is rooted in nature. Something like that. And it's all on youtube."

 

 

... NANGANGAHULUGAN ba ito ng PAGHINA ng IYONG "PANG-UNAWA"? :lol:

 

 

 

 

... wala ka ba talagang ma-gets,

 

... o NAGPAPALUSOT KA lang UPANG MAKAIWAS sa PAG-SAGOT? :lol:

Ano ba? Anong moral code ba dapat vherr?

 

ANO ba ang HINAHANAP MO?

 

 

ANO ang HINAHANAP MO...

 

... GAYUNG "LIKAS" nang "MAYROON"? :lol:

 

 

Do we k*ll HIV infected patients or not? Give the reason or a moral code to support your answer.

 

 

"PANINIWALA ba sa DIOS" ang "PUMIPIGIL" sa IYO na PATAYIN MO ang IYONG SARILI?

 

... kung HIV INFECTED KA,

 

... "PANINIWALA ba sa DIOS" ang "BUKOD TANGING PUMIPIGIL" sa IYO PARA PATAYIN MO ang IYONG SARILI?

 

 

 

PANINIWALA ba sa DIOS ang "PUMIPIGIL" sa IYO na PATAYIN MO ang IYONG SARILING ANAK?

 

... kung HIV INFECTED ang IYONG ANAK,

 

... "PANINIWALA ba sa DIOS" ang "BUKOD TANGING PUMIPIGIL" sa IYO PARA PATAYIN MO ang IYONG SARILING ANAK?

 

 

 

PANINIWALA ba sa DIOS ang "PUMIPIGIL" sa IYO na PATAYIN MO ang IYONG SARILING MAGULANG?

 

... kung HIV INFECTED ang IYONG MAGULANG,

 

... "PANINIWALA ba sa DIOS" ang "BUKOD TANGING PUMIPIGIL" sa IYO PARA PATAYIN MO ang IYONG SARILING MAGULANG?

 

 

 

PANINIWALA ba sa DIOS ang "PUMIPIGIL" sa IYO na PATAYIN MO ang IYONG KAPIT-BAHAY?

 

... kung HIV INFECTED ang IYONG KAPIT-BAHAY,

 

... "PANINIWALA ba sa DIOS" ang "BUKOD TANGING PUMIPIGIL" sa IYO PARA PATAYIN MO ang IYONG KAPIT-BAHAY?

 

 

 

PANINIWALA ba sa DIOS ang "PUMIPIGIL" sa IYO na PATAYIN MO ang IYONG KABABAYAN?

 

... kung HIV INFECTED ang IYONG KABABAYAN,

 

... "PANINIWALA ba sa DIOS" ang "BUKOD TANGING PUMIPIGIL" sa IYO PARA PATAYIN MO ang IYONG KABABAYAN?

 

 

Yun lang. Wag nang mag copy paste ng mga OPINION ng ibang tao.

 

OPINION ang TAWAG MO...

 

... sa MGA PAG-AARAL na isinasagawa ng mga DALUBHASA?

 

 

OPINION ang TAWAG MO...

 

... sa MGA PAGSASALIKSIK na isinasagawa ng mga DALUBHASA?

 

 

OPINION ang TAWAG MO...

 

... sa MGA PATUNAY na ibinibigay ng mga DALUBHASA?

 

 

 

 

 

... o baka naman ang NAIS MONG SABIHIN,

 

... ay MAG-USAP TAYO ng WALANG BASEHAN?

 

... ang MAG-USAP TAYO ng WALANG PATUNAY?

 

 

 

Pakita mong meron kang sariling pag-iisip.

 

... at PAANO MO NATUTUNAN ang "1 + 1 = 2"?

 

... IKAW lang bang MAG-ISA ang NAKAISIP ng "1 + 1 = 2" noong IKA'Y BATA pa? :lol:

[skitz]

Lol! So many words ... all avoided the simple question... not that I expected anything else. Kung yung fingerprint question inabot na ilang buwan at isang milyong tienes na post bago nasagot, ito pa kayang medyo may bigat na tanong?

 

Ano ang dapat gawin sa mga HIV infected individuals? Ibigay ang moral (or logical) justification that would support your answer.

 

Kaya bang sagutin ng ATHEIST na si Vherr o hindi? Hahahahahaha...

[JHP]

VheRR, scuse me, hindi ko rin ma-gets. Di mo naintindihan ang post ko na kino-quote mo. Akam mo ba kung ano ang ibig sabihin ng sarcasm?

[JHP]

Weeh?

... "self-denial"?

... ng "WALANG PANSARILING KAPAKINABANGAN"?

... PAANO?

... PAANO ba GAWIN ang "SELF-DENIAL" ng "WALANG PANSARILING KAPAKINABANGAN"?

... WALA nga bang "PANSARILING KAPAKINABANGAN" ang "PAG-SUNOD sa UTOS"?

... WALA nga bang "PANSARILING KAPAKINABANGAN" ang "PAG-GAWA sa mga GAWAING KALUGOD-LUGOD sa PINANINIWALAANG DIOS"?

 

 

 

Iyan ay ayon sa MORAL CODE "MO"...

 

... ang KASO,

 

... ang MORAL CODE MO ba,

... ay KATULAD ng MORAL CODE ng "IBA"?

 

vHeRR,

 

 

Hmmm, "pansariling pakinabangan" and self-denial. The former is when i hold myself to be the most important person in the world and my key interests come before anything else. That means in a situation in which someone has to live and someone has to die, i live, the other person dies. But according to my moral code, if it comes to a choice between my brother and me, i am ready to sacrifice my life, take a bullet for my brother so that he lives and i die. That, vHeRR, is the latter, self-denial. And that is from the moral code that i hold to be God-given.

 

As to your second assertion, vHHeR, many other people with a belief in God have lived and died by that same moral code. There are others today who live by that code and will die by it. So in that sense, "ang moral code ko ay katulad ng moral code ng iba, VVhERR.

 

Gets mo ba? Merry Christmas! Ay, di ka pala naniniwala sa Christmas, sorry.

Edited December 13, 2010 by JHP

[dungeonbaby]

just out of sheer seasonal boredom i think i'll answer the questions relevant to the discussion...

 

 

"PANINIWALA ba sa DIOS" ang "PUMIPIGIL" sa IYO na PATAYIN MO ang IYONG SARILI?

 

... kung HIV INFECTED KA,

 

... "PANINIWALA ba sa DIOS" ang "BUKOD TANGING PUMIPIGIL" sa IYO PARA PATAYIN MO ang IYONG SARILI?

 

- frankly? yes.

 

PANINIWALA ba sa DIOS ang "PUMIPIGIL" sa IYO na PATAYIN MO ang IYONG SARILING ANAK?

 

... kung HIV INFECTED ang IYONG ANAK,

 

... "PANINIWALA ba sa DIOS" ang "BUKOD TANGING PUMIPIGIL" sa IYO PARA PATAYIN MO ang IYONG SARILING ANAK?

 

- yes. if i thought my child had nothing to look forward to but a long and painful death i would ask a doctor to administer a lethal dose of morphine. but a belief in God might keep me from doing what i would feel in my heart to be the merciful thing to do.

 

PANINIWALA ba sa DIOS ang "PUMIPIGIL" sa IYO na PATAYIN MO ang IYONG SARILING MAGULANG?

 

... kung HIV INFECTED ang IYONG MAGULANG,

 

... "PANINIWALA ba sa DIOS" ang "BUKOD TANGING PUMIPIGIL" sa IYO PARA PATAYIN MO ang IYONG SARILING MAGULANG?

 

- again, yes.

 

PANINIWALA ba sa DIOS ang "PUMIPIGIL" sa IYO na PATAYIN MO ang IYONG KAPIT-BAHAY?

 

... kung HIV INFECTED ang IYONG KAPIT-BAHAY,

 

... "PANINIWALA ba sa DIOS" ang "BUKOD TANGING PUMIPIGIL" sa IYO PARA PATAYIN MO ang IYONG KAPIT-BAHAY?

 

- absolutely.

 

PANINIWALA ba sa DIOS ang "PUMIPIGIL" sa IYO na PATAYIN MO ang IYONG KABABAYAN?

 

... kung HIV INFECTED ang IYONG KABABAYAN,

 

... "PANINIWALA ba sa DIOS" ang "BUKOD TANGING PUMIPIGIL" sa IYO PARA PATAYIN MO ang IYONG KABABAYAN?

 

- yes.

 

what skitz is asking is, without a God-centric moral code, what would stop you from killing these people?

[vheRR]

just out of sheer seasonal boredom i think i'll answer the questions relevant to the discussion...

 

 

 

- frankly? yes.

 

 

 

- yes. if i thought my child had nothing to look forward to but a long and painful death i would ask a doctor to administer a lethal dose of morphine. but a belief in God might keep me from doing what i would feel in my heart to be the merciful thing to do.

 

 

 

- again, yes.

 

 

 

- absolutely.

 

 

 

- yes.

 

what skitz is asking is, without a God-centric moral code, what would stop you from killing these people?

 

 

So...

 

... ang "PUMIPIGIL" lang ba sa ASO na PATAYIN ang "KANYANG SARILING ANAK",

 

... ay ang "PANINIWALA ng ASO sa DIOS"?

... "NANINIWALA" ba ang ASO sa DIOS? :lol:

 

 

 

 

 

 

... TANUNGIN MO nga ang mga TAO sa KULUNGAN,

... ANO ang "NAG-UDYOK" sa KANILA na GUMAWA ng KRIMEN?

... ANO ang "NAG-UDYOK" sa KANILA na "PUMATAY" ng "KAPWA NILA TAO"?

... "DAHIL sa HINDI TOTOO ang DIOS" ang "DAHILAN" ba NILA KAYA SILA PUMATAY?

[vheRR]

Lol! So many words ... all avoided the simple question... not that I expected anything else. Kung yung fingerprint question inabot na ilang buwan at isang milyong tienes na post bago nasagot, ito pa kayang medyo may bigat na tanong?

 

Ano ang dapat gawin sa mga HIV infected individuals? Ibigay ang moral (or logical) justification that would support your answer.

 

Kaya bang sagutin ng ATHEIST na si Vherr o hindi? Hahahahahaha...

KAYA pala HANGGANG NGAYON...

 

... WALA KA pa ring MAIBIGAY na PATUNAY na TOTOO ang PINANINIWALAAN MONG DIOS?

 

 

 

... kaya ba IPINAGPIPILITAN MO ngayon na ang MORALIDAD,

 

... MULA sa DIOS,

 

... PARA ba MAGKAROON KA na "SA WAKAS" ng PATUNAY na TOTOO ang DIOS MO?

 

 

... ANO na nga uli ang PATUNAY MO na ang MORALIDAD nga ay "IBINIGAY" nga ng DIOS MO? :lol:

[dungeonbaby]

So...

 

... ang "PUMIPIGIL" lang ba sa ASO na PATAYIN ang "KANYANG SARILING ANAK",

 

... ay ang "PANINIWALA ng ASO sa DIOS"?

... "NANINIWALA" ba ang ASO sa DIOS? :lol:

 

 

 

 

 

 

... TANUNGIN MO nga ang mga TAO sa KULUNGAN,

... ANO ang "NAG-UDYOK" sa KANILA na GUMAWA ng KRIMEN?

... ANO ang "NAG-UDYOK" sa KANILA na "PUMATAY" ng "KAPWA NILA TAO"?

... "DAHIL sa HINDI TOTOO ang DIOS" ang "DAHILAN" ba NILA KAYA SILA PUMATAY?

 

wala akong kilalang asong mapagtatanungan nyan. wala rin akong interes makipagkilala sa isang kriminal para lang bigyan ng sagot ang mapanuya mong tanong.

 

kung ang punto mo e natural sa lahat ng hayop na alagaan ang kanilang anak, dapat mo sigurong balikan ang pangunahing isyu - na sa labas ng mga kadugo natin, at maliban sa mga taong may katungkulan sa buhay natin, ano ang nagdidikta sa iyo na wag tapusin ang buhay ng mga taong may sakit na maaaring makadisgrasya sa iyo at sa iyong kalipunan.

[vheRR]

VheRR, scuse me, hindi ko rin ma-gets. Di mo naintindihan ang post ko na kino-quote mo. Akam mo ba kung ano ang ibig sabihin ng sarcasm?

 

Hindi kaya IDINAAN MO lang sa "SARCASM" ang PAGKA-UNAWA MO?

Hindi kaya IPINAGTATANGGOL MO lang ang isang "KAKAMPI" sa PANANAMPALATAYA?

 

 

Hmmm, "pansariling pakinabangan" and self-denial. The former is when i hold myself to be the most important person in the world and my key interests come before anything else. That means in a situation in which someone has to live and someone has to die, i live, the other person dies. But according to my moral code, if it comes to a choice between my brother and me, i am ready to sacrifice my life, take a bullet for my brother so that he lives and i die. That, vHeRR, is the latter, self-denial. And that is from the moral code that i hold to be God-given.

 

 

... kay DALI na 'SABIHIN" na IBUBUWIS MO ang BUHAY MO,

... kay DALI rin kayang "GAWIN"?

... BAKIT nga ba ISINASAKRIPISYO ng MAGULANG ang SARILI PARA sa KALIGTASAN ng KANYANG ANAK?

... BAKIT nga ba ISINASAKRIPISYO ng INANG "ASO" ang SARILI PARA sa KALIGTASAN ng KANYANG ANAK?

 

... BAKIT nga ba IPINAGTATANGGOL ng MIYEMBRO ang KANYANG KA-GRUPO?

... hindi nga ba't AYON sa DIOS MO,

... WALANG HANGGANG BUHAY ang GANTIMPALA NYA sa mga SUSUNOD sa UTOS NIYA?

... so kung ISINA-SAKRIPISYO MO ang BUHAY MO PARA sa IBA,

... ANO ang KAPALIT?

... WALANG HANGGANG BUHAY?

 

 

As to your second assertion, vHHeR, many other people with a belief in God have lived and died by that same moral code. There are others today who live by that code and will die by it. So in that sense, "ang moral code ko ay katulad ng moral code ng iba, VVhERR.

 

 

 

... WALA bang PAGKAKA-IBA ng MORAL CODE ang MGA THEIST?

... ang MABUTI ba AYON sa ISANG THEIST, ay MABUTI rin AYON sa LAHAT ng THEIST?

 

 

Gets mo ba? Merry Christmas! Ay, di ka pala naniniwala sa Christmas, sorry.

 

KAILANGAN nga uli ISINILANG ang DIOS MO?

 

 

Edited December 13, 2010 by vheRR

[vheRR]

kung ang punto mo e natural sa lahat ng hayop na alagaan ang kanilang anak, dapat mo sigurong balikan ang pangunahing isyu - na sa labas ng mga kadugo natin, at maliban sa mga taong may katungkulan sa buhay natin, ano ang nagdidikta sa iyo na wag tapusin ang buhay ng mga taong may sakit na maaaring makadisgrasya sa iyo at sa iyong kalipunan.

 

... isang "SOCIAL ANIMAL" ang TAO.