New York Knickerbockers

[Guiness]

Thibodeau raves about ‘great’ new Knicks, sidesteps Phil snub

By Marc Berman

July 19, 2016 | 8:15pm

LAS VEGAS — If Timberwolves chief Tom Thibodeau sounds envious about the Knicks’ additions of two of his favorite players, he’s not.

While heaping major praise on the damage ex-Bulls Derrick Rose and Joakim Noah can do in New York despite their injury-riddled résumés, Thibodeau deflected any notion of being bitter that president Phil Jackson never dialed his number.

Instead, Thibodeau, the U.S Olympic team’s assistant coach, jumped at the T’wolves job to become the franchise’s president of basketball operations/head coach — a dual position that was not available in New York.

 

He has former Knicks general manager Scott Layden and a lot of young talent to build something special in the Twin Cities, where he got his first assistant’s job in 1989 under legendary coach Bill Musselman.

“I’m not going there,’’ Thibodeau said at UNLV after Tuesday’s Olympic training-camp practice. “I’m fine. I got the job I wanted. I’m happy. I wish them well.”

 

Thibodeau, a Knicks assistant from 1996-2003, was a lot more comfortable discussing the Rose-Noah additions, believing they’re going to make a smooth adjustment.

 

“I think they’re both great,’’ Thibodeau said. “They’ve already proven themselves. I think it’s good for them. I think it will work out. They got a good team. The way [Carmelo Anthony] plays, [Kristaps] Porzingis, Courtney Lee, they’re going to be good.

“Mentally, [Rose and Noah] are experienced. When you have veterans like that, it adds a lot to your team. They know how to play. They’ve been in big games. They’re unselfish and play to win. That’s a big plus.’’

After the 2014-15 season, Thibodeau was let go by the Bulls because of a rift with management, but not before making Chicago a perennial Eastern Conference power. The Post has reported Jackson didn’t make a run at Thibodeau, concerned about his bitter breakup with the Bulls. Jackson has said he needed to be “simpatico’’ with the next coach and didn’t know Thibodeau. Jackson settled for Jeff Hornacek, whom he didn’t know either until they hit it off during a mid-May interview.

Judging by social media, Thibodeau was the choice of Knicks fans.

 

“It’s a great basketball city,’’ Thibodeau said when asked if he was flattered by the furor. “I enjoyed my time there — seven years, a great environment. It’s a great fan base.’’

 

Part of Thibodeau’s Chicago run came amid Rose’s two major knee surgeries, making it more impressive. Thibodeau said he sees Rose on the road back after logging 66 games last season.

 

“The games tell you [he is on the right track],’’ Thibodeau said. “He played in a lot of games. It’s the first time he was healthy. It’s been a long time. It’s a big plus.’’

 

Thibodeau said Rose or Noah don’t need his advice on handling the New York pressure-cooker.

 

“They’re tough guys,’’ Thibodeau said. “They’ve been through a lot. … Those guys are well beyond [my advice]. You got to remember: Derrick’s from Chicago. Joakim is from New York. They can handle it.’’

 

Thibodeau almost teamed up with Anthony in Chicago during 2014’s free agency. Anthony and Thibodeau share the same agent at CAA. During Jackson’s coaching search last spring, Anthony admitted he was surprised Jackson didn’t set up an interview, figuring Thibodeau would have interest.

 

Now Anthony and Thibodeau are together for a solid month on this Olympic journey.

“He’s been great, terrific,’’ Thibodeau said of Anthony. “He set the tone in the first meeting. In practice, he’s playing unselfishly, practicing hard, talking to people, moving the ball, rebounding. He’s doing a lot of good stuff for us.

 

“That’s the best type of leadership you can have. The way he concentrates in meetings and practices. It goes a long way for the younger guys who haven’t been through it, setting an example.’’

 

While Anthony has become the team leader of the Olympic squad, Noah will give Anthony a leadership boost in New York.

“What’s not to like?’’ Thibodeau said of Noah. “Unselfish and plays to win. Great player. Makes other people better, can really pass, plays great defense, great rebounder, plays for the team. He’ll be terrific.”

 

Thibodeau fashioned a 255-139 record in five straight playoff seasons in Chicago. Asked if he wondered how much more the Bulls could’ve achieved if Rose was healthy, Thibodeau demurred.

 

“That’s all part of the NBA,’’ he said. “You got to be mentally tough to go through those things. It’s not succumbing to those excuses but finding a way to get it done. That was probably the thing I’m most proud of — all the guys from Chicago, we found a way to win.’’

[francissimon]

Is it just me or is anyone else feeling the bandwagon for the Knicks getting bigger as the season is about to start? Sana Hindi maging parang GSW level yung bandwagon.

[Guiness]

Is it just me or is anyone else feeling the bandwagon for the Knicks getting bigger as the season is about to start? Sana Hindi maging parang GSW level yung bandwagon.

 

are there any knicks fans in this forum? or are you speaking for the fans in general? i for one have been a fan for a long time even if they were not winning. i'm optimistic about their chances now because they got some good pieces. not great like kevin durant type players but good enough to compete. but im not totally sold on them winning the championship the cavs will still be the favorites to win not to mention chicago, indiana, boston, toronto are pretty good teams in the east.

 

i will tell you now, new yorkers themselves who are knicks fans aren't all that thrilled with the moves. you know why? like myself, they are concerned with the health of these players they signed. Derrick Rose is not his MVP self anymore and i don't expect him to be that player that he was when he became MVP. To me, he's not totally healthy and one injury will sideline him for a lot of games. that goes for joakim noah too, he's what 31 yrs old? he's also coming off shoulder surgery another health concern, brandon jennings is another one who missed time because of injury. Even Melo has injury issues that slow him down. I'm labeling this team as Medical Bill Knicks. Because injuries will f.uck up their season.

 

I don't know if anyone will be on the Knicks bandwagon as bandwagon fans tend to gravitate towards front running teams like the Warriors or Cavs. These fans don't have any allegiance or fan loyalty towards their own teams as they only root for any team that wins.

[Guiness]

The good, the bad, the ugly from the New York Knicks' offseason

Ian Begley

ESPN Staff Writer

"What is success for us as the New York Knicks? I think that's kind of the question that we have to ask ourselves as a whole organization. Not just winning another 15-16 games that we did this year, playing for the eighth seed. Is that success? Or being a top seed in the Eastern Conference, being a top team in the NBA ... is that success?

 

"I think we have to put things in kind of perspective and figure out what success means to this organization right now."

Those were Carmelo Anthony’s thoughts after he met with Knicks president Phil Jackson in mid-April, a meeting that turned out to be pivotal to the Knicks' future.

 

The sit-down with Jackson came shortly after the final game of another frustrating season for Anthony. The Knicks missed the playoffs for the third straight year and had lost 115 games over the last two seasons. The losing was eating at Anthony, and one concern he brought up during the meeting was the direction of the franchise. More specifically, he wanted to know if Jackson planned to build a team that would compete while Anthony was still in his prime.

 

"How do we take advantage of kind of this window that I have? I think that's the main question," Anthony said that day. "How can we take advantage of this window? How can we take advantage of this situation that we have that's in front of us?"

 

At the time, many around the league assumed that the Knicks would eschew Anthony's timeline and build around rookie sensation Kristaps Porzingis (a strategy Jackson had discussed internally, according to sources).

 

Instead, Jackson built a team that's ready to win now, and it's clear that Anthony's voice was heard in that mid-April meeting.

 

Jackson said that his conversation with Anthony -- and the hiring of coach Jeff Hornacek -- played a role in the Knicks' acquisition of often-injured former MVP Derrick Rose. The club subsequently signed veterans Joakim Noah, Brandon Jennings and Courtney Lee, putting together a team that has the potential to make some noise in the playoffs.

 

There will be plenty of debate in New York over whether the Knicks should have built slowly around Porzingis. Instead, Jackson opted for a quicker route to relevancy, one that has burned previous Knicks regimes. But the club believes that it has also put Porzingis in the best position to develop, and Porzingis has no issue with their approach this offseason.

 

Only time will tell whether Jackson has made the right moves. But now that the contracts have been signed, it's worth taking a look at what may work -- and may not work -- given the Knicks' current roster. Below, we look at some potential pluses and minuses of New York's additions:

 

Potential pluses

 

More penetration: The Knicks ranked last in the NBA in both drives per game (15.5) and points per game off of drives (10.4) last season. That was just one factor that contributed to their sub-par performance on offense. Can they improve on the offensive end this season? That's anyone's guess. Though it's reasonable to expect the penetration numbers to increase thanks to Rose, who averaged nearly nine drives per game and scored 6.9 points per game on drives last year.

 

In an ideal world for the Knicks, Rose's penetration leads to easier looks at the basket for both Anthony and Porzingis and also leads to more pick-and-rolls for New York, something Hornacek has discussed with Rose.

 

Quicker pace: Hornacek also wants to pick up the pace and, again, adding Rose should help in this area. The Chicago Bulls played a bit faster with Rose on the floor -- 99 possessions per 48 minutes with Rose on the court, 97 when he was off of it. Jennings could help here as well. The Orlando Magic averaged 101 possessions per 48 minutes when Jennings was on the floor last season, nearly six more than the Knicks averaged as a team per 48 minutes last season.

 

It obviously takes more than one player to transform a team's pace, but having Jennings and Rose in uniform should allow the Knicks to, at the very least, get into their halfcourt offense quicker.

 

Stronger pick-and-roll defense: The Knicks hope that Noah can help them contain the ball handler on pick-and-roll plays, an issue they struggled with last season. Noah, when healthy, is viewed around the league as a player mobile enough to switch onto perimeter players on pick-and-rolls if needed. In an injury-filled campaign last season, Noah ranked in the 37th percentile league-wide in defending the roll man, per Synergy Sports. That's an average mark for big men, one the Knicks probably hope will improve this season. Another reason to assume that the pick-and-roll defense will improve is the presence of Porzingis. The 7-foot-3 big man showed the mobility to defend the play well in his rookie season.

 

Potential minuses

 

Touches for Porzingis: We're not breaking new ground when we say Anthony and Rose like to have the ball in their hands. Both players used more than 27 percent of their teams' possessions when on the floor last season. If both players maintain those rates, it would surely lead to fewer touches for Porzingis. The Knicks' long-term future hinges on Porzingis' development, so a diminished role for big man in Year 2 may not be the best long-term strategy. Nonetheless, it's worth pointing out here that Rose's usage last season (27.3) was the lowest since his second season in the league. Anthony's usage rate (29.7) was the lowest since his rookie season. If that trend continues, maybe Porzingis' opportunities with the ball will remain unchanged.

 

Inconsistent shooting: The Knicks didn't rely on the 3-point shot heavily last season, but that may change thanks to their new coach. Under Hornacek, the Phoenix Suns ranked 11th in 3-point rate -- the percentage of shots attempted from beyond the arc -- last season. New York ranked 22nd, while sporting the the 10th-worst overall shooting percentage in the league.

Based on recent history, it doesn't seem as if New York has the personnel to improve either percentage significantly in 2016-17.

Rose shot 28 and 29 percent from 3-point land in the last two seasons and Anthony shot 34 percent from behind the arc last season -- a six percent drop-off from the 2013-14 season. Porzingis hit 33 percent of his 3-point shots in his rookie season. This is one of the many areas where new shooting guard Lee, a career 38 percent 3-point shooter, can help.

 

Depth issues: A quick refresher on the recent injury history of some of the Knicks' new signees: Rose has played 39 percent of his games since 2012-13 due to multiple injuries, including major knee surgeries. Noah was limited to 29 games last season with left shoulder injuries, including season-ending surgery to repair a shoulder dislocation. Jennings suffered a torn left Achilles in January 2015 and missed nearly 12 months.

 

Given these injury concerns, the Knicks' depth may be tested. Outside of Jennings, Lance Thomas and Kyle O'Quinn, the New York bench doesn't have much experience. The club may have to rely on someone from the quintet of Mindaugas Kuzminskas, Marshall Plumlee, Willy Hernangomez and Maurice Ndour for regular minutes. None of those five have played regular NBA minutes in the past.

Edited August 3, 2016 by hahnz

[Guiness]

Making Phil Jackson’s triangle work: Knicks preach one word

By Fred Kerber

October 27, 2016 | 8:44pm

Here’s some free, unsolicited advice in case you are sitting around, holding your breath waiting for the Knicks to resemble the Michael Jordan-Scottie Pippen Bulls or the Kobe Bryant-Shaquille O’Neal Lakers in running the triangle offense:

Exhale.

 

There’s a new coach, Jeff Hornacek, who hasn’t coached it before. There is a former MVP, Derrick Rose, who hasn’t played it before and missed most of preseason because of his sexual assault civil trial. There are more new players, 10, than rings won by Michael Jordan. There is a franchise face, Carmelo Anthony, experiencing another team makeover. And after one decidedly ugly game, the starting unit has been together, including preseason, for one game.

 

So that wretched four-letter word — time — emerges. The Knicks simply are not going to quickly master the preferred offensive system of team president Phil Jackson.

 

“Phil’s been great trying to emphasize, ‘Yes, you want to win games, but you want to get better as the year goes on,’” Hornacek said Thursday. “If you back out of something just because it’s not working offensively or defensively, you can’t all of a sudden start changing things because it may not work right now. The point is to try to get better at that particular thing. That’s what we’re trying to do.”

Just don’t hold your breath waiting.

The Knicks didn’t really even employ the triangle that much early in the 117-88 season-opening stinker in Cleveland. Hornacek said the Knicks never really “got into our triangle aspects. … A lot of times we’d get into it after three or four passes. We took a lot of shots where it was one or no passes.”

Ball movement was a whole different mess.

 

The Knicks, who hope their home opener against Memphis on Saturday is a 180 from the dud against the Cavaliers, are a work in progress. Rose, after Tuesday, noted he’s not yet comfortable in the system, better at pick and roll. He knows this will take time.

“You live and learn,” Rose said after practice, which was attended by Jackson. “I felt we had times where we looked great, times where we looked [crappy]. It comes with just playing, learning each other’s strengths and weaknesses, learning the offense a little bit more.”

Whether you run the triangle, pick and rolls or four-corner stalls, the ball must move better than against the Cavaliers.

 

Yup, ball movement was a big part of crappy.

“Everybody knows it was terrible. We had more turnovers (18) than assists (17),” Rose said. “We should do what the game tells us. If it tells us to shoot the ball when we’re open, shoot. Two people on you, draw attention for your teammates.

“We just need to play. The game will tell you what to do.”

The defense? Suffice to say it was almost as good as the offense.

 

“We’re still trying to figure things out, still trying to find our identity as a team,” said Anthony, who has seen change, system implementation, 70 different teammates and knows of patience — but doesn’t know when this team will blend.

“Honestly, I have no idea. If it looks this way after, 15-20 games, then I’ll be sitting here singing a different tune.

“I’ve been here for a while now. From Derrick’s comments, it’s just more of him getting a feel for it. This is totally new for him and the new guys on this team. I don’t think he was bashing the system or what we’re running. It’s more him personally trying to get a feel,” Anthony said.

 

“It can get frustrating. Especially a guy like him who is used to having the ball in his hands and offenses running through him and it’s all spaced out and pick-and-rolls and utilizing … his strengths.”

So it will take time. The Knicks aren’t scrapping the triangle. They’re going to work on it whenever possible: in games, in practice, on the subway.

 

“We’ve got to find that mix,” Hornacek said. “We can’t do it all of one, or all of the other [but] no matter what we run, we have to execute it.”

[J.A.S.O.N]

better luck next season guys

[peewee1010]

should get an allan houston type player to spread the floor and another defensive big.

[TheListOfJon]

allan houston is rolling over his empty grave

[Boy Bakal]

I used to love the Knicks when they went straight to the NBA finals without Patrick Ewing - only to lose to the San Antonio Spurs. It was a magical run.

[Mad Damian]

who did the knicks sign this free agency?

[Paolito99]

Phil jackson shud resign

[TheListOfJon]

^ you must be living under a rock.

 

anyways, way to sign an offer sheet for another bench player for starter's money (i.e. Tim Hardaway Jr.)

[Basket Case]

News from the net...

 

Kyrie wants out of Cleveland, would prefer to get traded to either San Antonio, Minnesota, Miami and New York... The thing being discussed now is trading Kyrie for Melo... which makes sense to everyone involved...

[Basket Case]

It is not up to the Knicks where they want to trade Anthony simply because Anthony has a "no-trade" clause. He decides where he wants to go and he wants to go to Houston.

Actually, reports indicated before that he did not say that the preferred destination is the Rockets only... He also said that he is also willing to waive his clause with the Cavs...

[Basket Case]

Yes, he said that a week or so ago but it is Houston he wants to go to now. I don't blame him. Cleveland is imploding and Houston is a titillating proposition for Anthony since he will be teaming up with two other superstars which takes the load off him. It would make sense if Anthony was traded for Love but if Anthony gets traded for Irving, then Love will have come off the bench and you don't let a $20MM player come off the bench. Unless Love plays center and he would be overmatched because he is not 6'10. James is taller than him. Love is 6'7 at the most.

Let's just see what happens... This offseason is so crazy that a lot is going on and kind come of as shocking, surprising or weird... There are a lot of angles of trade scenarios that are being worked on right now... The most suprising to happen is he stays with the Knicks as the season starts...

[JFK]

 

Walt Frazier

[Lyoto Machida]

good luck to this team

[Legend_Killer]

This team took the biggest L this free agency

[red60]

This team took the biggest L this free agency

 

After trading franchise player Kristaps Porzingis they were really hoping to get KD and Kyrie instead they ended up with Julius Randle.. I feel sorry for Knicks fans... Not only they did missed out on KD and Kyrie, both players ended up in Brooklyn who are also in New York. Double whammy.

[Legend_Killer]

After trading franchise player Kristaps Porzingis they were really hoping to get KD and Kyrie instead they ended up with Julius Randle.. I feel sorry for Knicks fans... Not only they did missed out on KD and Kyrie, both players ended up in Brooklyn who are also in New York. Double whammy.

 

Dolan was stupid enough not to offer a max contract to KD, while they are the same team that offered 60 mil to Eddy Curry

 

They cleared cap space by trading KP but didn't offer anybody a max contract

[red60]

Dolan was stupid enough not to offer a max contract to KD, while they are the same team that offered 60 mil to Eddy Curry

 

They cleared cap space by trading KP but didn't offer anybody a max contract

 

well ang rumor talaga they didn't even had a chance to offer max because KD never took them seriously. KD even took a pay cut so BKN can sign Kyrie and Jordan.

[will robie]

well ang rumor talaga they didn't even had a chance to offer max because KD never took them seriously. KD even took a pay cut so BKN can sign Kyrie and Jordan.

 

I guess this means the Knicks will be the laughing stock of the East for, at least, another year.

[red60]

I guess this means the Knicks will be the laughing stock of the East for, at least, another year.

 

maybe for 2 or 3 more years. There's no "big" free agent (excluding AD since he's probably going to sign with lakers) next year and I doubt if they can pull of a blockbuster trade.

[Legend_Killer]

well ang rumor talaga they didn't even had a chance to offer max because KD never took them seriously. KD even took a pay cut so BKN can sign Kyrie and Jordan.

 

They were also saying Dolan refused to offer a max contract to KD because of his injury, also DeAndre had experience on what the Knicks management was like during his short stay there that's why he persuaded Kyrie and KD not to go there

[djloe]

sayang yung chance na pinakawalan ng Knicks.