PacMan's Corner

[brawler201]

How do you guys think Louie Espinosa would have fared with these guys if Louie fought them during his prime? By prime I mean up to the second fight against Cesar Sotto in Albaquerque New Mexico which was more of a highway robbery than anything else. After that, Louie was just fed to the lions.

[redax]

That's a lot of boxer's to compare. Wish I were already at L @ M at that time so I would have also had the pleasure of working out with him. He was a better boxer than Pacquiao for sure. Manny only has he's devastating left and an amazing physical makeup. You should see this guy workout, 25 rounds and some of those rounds he doesn't take the minute in between resting. Even in doing roadwork, nobody in L @ M can keep up with him. He's resting heart rate is a lot lower than normal person. That's why he get's away with cramming his training before a fight. The wonder is, that topic never really comes up at the gym. You should have asked a week earlier, so I could have asked Mondejar when we were watching the The Fight for Love boxing fights last Saturday.

[brawler201]

I agree that Louie was the better boxer over all. Better skills, great counter puncher, good power and smarts. But Pacquiao with his killer straight and granite like chin would always level the playing field. And you are also right that Pacquiao indeed has a sturdy make up that's perfect for the toe to toe pro fighting style. I'm leaning towards comparing Louie's skill to that of Morales and will have a slight advantage over Pacquiao as long as he keeps Manny at bay and not get caught with any of his big bombs. Easier said than done of course. With the comparisson, I would give him a bigger chance of defeating Marco Barrera and even money on El Terible because of the similarity of style.

[Koji21]

I agree that Louie was the better boxer over all. Better skills, great counter puncher, good power and smarts.  But Pacquiao with his killer straight and granite like chin would always level the playing field.  And you are also right that Pacquiao indeed has a sturdy make up that's perfect for the toe to toe pro fighting style.  I'm leaning towards comparing Louie's skill to that of Morales and will have a slight advantage over Pacquiao as long as he keeps Manny at bay and not get caught with any of his big bombs. Easier said than done of course.  With the comparisson, I would give him a bigger chance of defeating Marco Barrera and even money on El Terible because of the similarity of style.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Same here, I think that he's a slight favorite as long as he dictates the tempo and not get caught with a bomb from MP. But once Manny connects, it may be good night for Louie, as i'm really worried about his' knockout losses to Israel Contreras and Alejandro Gonzales(which he avenged later via ko).

 

Too bad we never saw Louie against "the boxer formerly known as Prince" Hamed around 96-97. With Hamed's wild swings and defenseless-defense, Louie would have punished him with the lefthook time and again.

[brawler201]

^^Hamed was another yellow belly. Probably won 3-4 fights against good fighters but he was fun to watch. Louie was the real king of the featherweights but it was the Prince who had the big money fights. This clown was so scared of Louie that instead of accepting a fight to unify the featherweight titles he in turn offered Louie a 6 fight-$ 2M deal under his promotion. Louie will fight 5 contenders and then the 6th fight would be for the featherweight unification match against the Prince. It was a classic set up, Louie ages and slows down in the 2 1/2 - 3 years that he will expend to complete 5 fights and would then be easy pickings. It didn't make a lot of sense for Louie then as the million dollar fight was a one time dance with Prince. But the Prince just danced away. His rep*tation didn't need the beating that it would take if he gets stretched out by the King. In hindsight, Louie should have taken the deal. He would have his $ 2M and would have had enough to take care of Hamed even if it took another 3 years before they actually met up.

 

That deal would have solved all of his money woes and would have probably afforded him the opportunity to retire earlier. Instead, his promoter America Presents sold him up the river when he refused an extension of their fight deal by facing a less dangerous Cesar Sotto in practically home soil in Albaquerque, New Mexico. You immediately have a bad feeling in your stomach that a robbery was in the menu when you fight a Latino boxer in the US and the whole fight was announced and broadcasted in Spanish. Extra red flags when all the judges had hispanic sounding last names. Louie just boxed and banged Sotto silly for 12 rounds. Heck it wasn't even close to the Manila Bay fight between the two where Louie probably fought the best fight of his life. But there was that sinking feeling when the announcer started to declare: "El nuevo campeon del mundo...".

 

It was downhill from there as Louie was abandoned by his handlers and was fed to the lions. Lion is probably to tame of a term, Louie was left to thieves is probably more apt.

[brawler201]

I'm starting to have that sinking feeling again. Pacquiao was again declared a 7-5 favorite by the Vegas bookies. It looks somebody wants to make a killing and Manny is being used as the bait. He better knock out Morales or he'llend up holding a very short stick at the end of the fight regardless of how much he outboxes El Terrible.

[Koji21]

I'm starting to have that sinking feeling again.  Pacquiao was again declared a 7-5 favorite by the Vegas bookies.  It looks somebody wants to make a killing and Manny is being used as the bait.  He better knock out Morales or he'llend up holding a very short stick at the end of the fight regardless of how much he outboxes El Terrible.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Kelan lumabas yung odds?

 

Hmmm.....

 

Just finished watching again(3rd time) the Pacman-Eric bout. Two things I noticed, first, Manny kept moving straight backwards everytime Eric gets aggressive. Not much side stepping. Second, Manny would stop after his offensive, giving Eric time to counterpunch. Two things to improve on.

 

Brawler201, how do you think Louie Espinosa and Manny Pacquiao would have fared against Flash Elorde, probably at Junior Lightweight?

 

:thumbsupsmiley:

[brawler201]

I can't give a definite on this as I haven't had the previlage of seeing any of D' Flash's fights. But this is a very interesting match up. Calling some of the more "mature" boxing fans. Inputs please.

[brawler201]

Lumabas sa column ni Quinito Henson sa Phil. Star kahapon. So mga 2-3 days ago lumabas sa Vegas. Pinapainit ng oddsmakers ang mga chicano paro lalong tumaya.

[Koji21]

Lumabas sa column ni Quinito Henson sa Phil. Star kahapon. So mga 2-3 days ago lumabas sa Vegas.  Pinapainit ng oddsmakers ang mga chicano paro lalong tumaya.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

I've watched a couple of Flash Elorde's bouts(against Love Alloti ata yun, one bout with Sandy Saddler, and another with a Jap guy-the one he beat for the junior lightweight title). Medyo grainy yun, sa ESPN classics kasi. One thing I can say, may right sya sa title na best Filipino boxer. Haven't seen Pancho Villa though.

 

Member ka ba sa boxingtalk? May classics section dun sa message board, check it out. :cool:

[brawler201]

^^Saan yang boxingtalk?

 

I think I saw that Sandy Sandler fight eons ago. Grade school pa yata ako. They had this boxing show on channel 7 that showed classics. Elorde was fighting for the Lightweght title and was actually leading the fight when he had to stop because of cuts. Sobrang gulang kasi nyang si Sandler, parang si Agapito Sanchez. D' Flash fought him twice and both fights ended in the same manner. These fights were a few years before Elorde became a jr. lightweight champ as the boxing bodies only later introduced the titles to the broken weight sizes.

[Koji21]

^^Saan yang boxingtalk?

 

I think I saw that Sandy Sandler fight eons ago. Grade school pa yata ako. They had this boxing show on channel 7 that showed classics.  Elorde was fighting for the Lightweght title and was actually leading the fight when he had to stop because of cuts.  Sobrang gulang kasi nyang si Sandler, parang si Agapito Sanchez.  D' Flash fought him twice and both fights ended in the same manner.  These fights were a few years before Elorde became a jr. lightweight champ as the boxing bodies only later introduced the titles to the broken weight sizes.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

boxingtalk.com. Merong classics section dun sa message board, dami ko natutunan. I don't know if it is permitted here, pero try ko lang.

 

http://boxingtalk.com/

 

About Sandy Saddler, I thought Elorde won the first bout.

 

But you're right, the second bout had Flash leading before the stoppage(on cuts). Eh sobrang dumi ni saddler, kinakaskas yung inside of the gloves, yung ulo nya, pati na yata kilikili. May article nga sa Ring Magazine tungkol dyan, dapat daw disqualified si Saddler dahil garapal yung fouls nya.

[brawler201]

^^Tama ka nga. Natalo si Saddler sa first fight pero non-title fight. Sa Manila pa ginawa yung laban. However, Elorde gave a good account of himself to earn a legit shot at Saddler's featherweight crown. Di pala lightweight title. He lost on a 13th round stoppage due to cuts while leading in the cards. Iba pa ang rules noon, kung ngayon nangyari yan, panalo sana si Elorde. It was also Saddler's last title defense. I mixed him up with the great Carlos Ortiz, who Elorde fought twice for the former's lightweight title. D' Flash lost on stoppage in the 14th round of both fights.

[Koji21]

^^Tama ka nga. Natalo si Saddler sa first fight pero non-title fight. Sa Manila pa ginawa yung laban. However, Elorde gave a good account of himself to earn a legit shot at  Saddler's featherweight crown. Di pala lightweight title. He lost on a 13th round stoppage due to cuts while leading in the cards. Iba pa ang rules noon, kung ngayon nangyari yan, panalo sana si Elorde. It was also Saddler's last title defense. I mixed him up with the great Carlos Ortiz, who Elorde fought twice for the former's lightweight title. D' Flash lost on stoppage in the 14th round of both fights.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Yup, Flash lost to the great Carlos Ortiz twice, both by stoppage(cuts ata yung isa). Pero maganda pa rin yung pinakita nya. But Flash beat Ishmael Laguna, who I beleive ko'd Ortiz once. Maganda yung resume ni Flash, and most consider him the best Fil Boxer(kasama si Pancho Villa).

 

How do you think a PAC-JMM rematch turn-out?

 

:cool:

[brawler201]

Here's more motivation for Pac Man to take care of Morales convincingly in their next fight: a chance to let Marco Barrera eat his words and another chance to give the Mexican loudmouth a bitch slapping. Heck, Morales should just lose this one on purpose just to have someone beat the s**t out of Barrera as he will always have a hard time winning over Barrera. He just losses his wits when he's in the ring with Marco and just brawls.

 

 

 

 

Barrera picks Morales over Pacquiao

 

The Philippine Star 12/09/2005

 

Marco Antonio Barrera, the Mexican legend who beat arch rival Erik Morales in the trilogy of their classic duel but whom Manny Pacquiao demolished to gain worldwide recognition a couple of years ago, has picked Morales over the Filipino boxing icon when the two clash in a rematch on Jan. 21 in Las Vegas.

 

"Morales will dominate in an easy fight," said Barrera in an interview with popular boxing website SecondsOut.

 

Barrera downplayed Morales’ listless 12-round loss to unheralded Zahir Raheem in September, saying his compatriot was not motivated and did not train hard aside from fighting too heavy (weighing in as a lightweight).

 

But Pacquiao, who stopped Hector Velazquez in the fifth round in the undercard of the Morales-Raheem fight, remains unfazed.

 

"It will be a different outcome this time. There will be no let-up," Pacquiao said in Filipino before he departed for the US to resume his training under renowned trainer Freddie Roach for the keenly-awaited fight dubbed "The Battle" at the Thomas & Mack Center in Las Vegas.

 

Meanwhile, Barrera said he is looking forward to fight the winner of the Morales-Pacquiao rematch midway next year.

 

"I want to fight the winner of (next month’s fight) and I think that will be Morales," said Barrera.

 

This developed as Morales, now training at the Queretaro in Mexico, announced that Jose Luis "Maestro" Lopez Sr will replace his father Jose Morales as the chief tactician for the Pacquiao return showdown.

 

The Durango, Mexico native Lopez, himself a former boxer who now manages his son, is highly respected for having steered him to the world championship.

 

"We are already working together and he helps me to work with the mitts," said Morales, who is now on the third week of training in the Querétaro, in an interview with Box-Latino.

 

The three-time world champion also divulged that his camp is already complete with the arrival of sparring partners Manuel "Pirri" Leyva and Mauro "Betillo" Gutiérrez III in addition to Osvaldo Alvarado, Jorge Quezada, Francisco Nava and Refugio Tiscareño. The group’s physician is Dr. Mario Sanchez.