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#1501 startoffbeat

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Posted 17 September 2018 - 04:22 PM

Kyrie won that game for the Cavs. It was tied and when he made that one against Curry, it gave the Cavs a cushion. No Kyrie, no championship. If he had the ball during that play? Why didn't he ask for it? Clearly, he implicitly agreed to an isolation play for Kyrie. He's the man for the Cavs, right? Why didn't he ask for it when the Cavs needed him to shoot it? Kyrie won it for Cleveland. 

 

No Kyrie, no championship? How far did Kyrie carry the Cavs before LeBron came back? Not very far, actually. The Warriors ran a man-to-man defense on that play because they know LeBron is a threat in clutch. Kyrie did some choking himself in game 6 when he disappeared in the dying moments, game 7 will only be a fantasy had LeBron not put the Cavs on his shoulders.

 

 

What? Kareem played until Game 5 until he got injured in that game. What are you talking about? Johnson had an excellent Game 6. I will give him that but one brilliant game is not the series. You are talking about a freaking game. Kareem was at the twilight of his career? Kareem won the Finals MVP in the 1985 Finals. What are you talking about? He was also an NBA First Teamer in 1980, 1981, 1984 and 1986. A guy in the twilight of his career would not be in the All-NBA First Team. He could not win a title until Magic came along? Really? What about the 1971 NBA championship won by the Bucks when he was still Lew Alcindor? Magic is greater than Bird because of championships? Haha! So that makes Robert Horry greater than Magic and Kareem because he had 7 championships. Again, Larry never had a 5-time MVP already in his team when he came on board. Magic was not the man for the Lakers in 1980. He had one brilliant Game 6. I will give him that but Kareem carried the Lakers to the Finals. Magic was a willing sidekick. I am stating hard facts here. Let's not make general statements like Magic was the overall leader of the Lakers in 1980. I am not making Magic look bad. If stating facts makes Magic look bad, well, it is what it is. 

 

Larry is greater than Magic because he never had a 5-time MVP already in his team when he came along, yet, he took a 29-53 team a year earlier to the ECF with him being the only addition. Magic was not the man for the Lakers until 1987. He shared the spotlight with Kareem in LA with Kareem leading the charge from 1979 until 1986. Larry had always been the man in Boston until he retired. 

 

 

Magic won Finals MVP of that series, you can't win Finals MVP with just 1 good game. 

 

and yes, Kareem's career was on its long but fruitful end when Magic came along. I am talking about Kareem and not Lew Alcindor. Throughout his stint with the Lakers, he was battling injuries that, at that time, were hard to treat. He was actually quite lucky the Lakers landed Magic. Throughout the 80's he was surrounded by talents who can take him to championships. Those extra trophies won with the Lakers are just beautiful, no doubt, but he would not have won those had Magic not been there to facilitate for Kareem and the Lakers. 

 

If Horry is greater than Magic because he had 7 then I will take it, 3 of those he got with the Lakers anyway and he looks like a pretty likeable guy.... aaaand that makes him greater than Larry Bird and Magic is still greater than Bird. 

 

So what if Bird did not play with a multiple-time MVP, sounds like an excuse for not winning as much championships as he should have. It's not Magic's fault he landed in a team with Kareem on it.


Edited by startoffbeat, 17 September 2018 - 04:24 PM.


#1502 will robie

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Posted 17 September 2018 - 05:46 PM

 

No Kyrie, no championship? How far did Kyrie carry the Cavs before LeBron came back? Not very far, actually. The Warriors ran a man-to-man defense on that play because they know LeBron is a threat in clutch. Kyrie did some choking himself in game 6 when he disappeared in the dying moments, game 7 will only be a fantasy had LeBron not put the Cavs on his shoulders.

Yes, you have a point in Kyrie not being able to push the Cavs to the playoffs before Lechoke did his "prodigal son" move to Cleveland. No argument there but we are talking of that series with the Ws. I'll tell you what. The reason why they isolated Kyrie was because he had Curry on him which the Cavs executed perfectly. The play they wanted was to pick off Curry off by making Smith run a high pick in order to pick Klay off and in the process guard Smith. If you were a coach, you wouldn't let Curry guard Kyrie because Kyrie is the best shot creator in the NBA bar none and Curry is not the defender Klay is. So once they had the isolation against Curry, Kyrie could have done anything against Curry because Curry just does not have the tools to guard Kyrie that is why Klay was the main defender on Kyrie. Kyrie disappeared in Game 6? The Cavs won by a rout in Game 6 of the 2016 NBA Finals. What are you talking about? 


Edited by will robie, 17 September 2018 - 06:23 PM.


#1503 will robie

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Posted 17 September 2018 - 06:03 PM

Magic won Finals MVP of that series, you can't win Finals MVP with just 1 good game. 

The sportswriters who voted for Finals MVP were so overwhelmed by Magic's triple double in that game that they decided to give it to him but if you look at the stats in the first 5 games, Kareem averaged 33.6 ppg, 13.6 rpg and 4.6 bpg. Kareem was doing it all in offense and defense in that series. If Kareem had played in Game 6, it would have been him.   



#1504 will robie

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Posted 17 September 2018 - 06:07 PM

 

and yes, Kareem's career was on its long but fruitful end when Magic came along. I am talking about Kareem and not Lew Alcindor. Throughout his stint with the Lakers, he was battling injuries that, at that time, were hard to treat. He was actually quite lucky the Lakers landed Magic. Throughout the 80's he was surrounded by talents who can take him to championships. Those extra trophies won with the Lakers are just beautiful, no doubt, but he would not have won those had Magic not been there to facilitate for Kareem and the Lakers. 

Kareem and Lew Alcindor are one and the same. You are talking in motherhood statements. I am talking in specifics and stats. As for Kareem not winning those championships without Magic, maybe but it does not change the fact that Magic already had the luxury of a 5-time MVP carrying the team when he came along. Yes, Magic is an all-time great but Larry is just greater. I am not a Magic hater. He is the best point guard I have seen in my opinion but, again, Larry is just the greater player in my opinion and my opinion is based on facts and logic.


Edited by will robie, 17 September 2018 - 06:08 PM.


#1505 will robie

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Posted 17 September 2018 - 06:09 PM

 

If Horry is greater than Magic because he had 7 then I will take it, 3 of those he got with the Lakers anyway and he looks like a pretty likeable guy.... aaaand that makes him greater than Larry Bird and Magic is still greater than Bird. 

I was being sarcastic but Horry wasn't the man in those 7 championships. Larry was the man in those 3 championships. Magic was the man in those back to back championships. 



#1506 will robie

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Posted 17 September 2018 - 06:11 PM

 

So what if Bird did not play with a multiple-time MVP, sounds like an excuse for not winning as much championships as he should have. It's not Magic's fault he landed in a team with Kareem on it.

Exactly my point. Magic already had a 5-time MVP when he came along. Larry did not have that luxury. No, I am not making excuses. Just stating an opinion based on facts and logic. In the NBA, you need talent to win. Larry did not have a 5-time MVP that Magic had when he came along. 


Edited by will robie, 17 September 2018 - 06:21 PM.


#1507 red60

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Posted 17 September 2018 - 07:20 PM

I never said Kyrie had the most clutch shots in Cavs history. I said that Kyrie hit the most clutch shot in Cavs history. Read what I posted again. There is a big difference in passing the ball to an open man and agreeing to an isolation play. Lechoke retiring top 5 of all time is your opinion. He isn't even in my top 10 list. 

 

Irving hit more clutch shot than James? I don't think so. Assuming he did hit more clutch shot than James as a Cavalier then that does not make James a choker. Clutch stats I gave earlier (which you intentionally ignored) is comparing Lebron, MJ and Kobe which showed Lebron had the most made clutch shot and at a higher percentage. Lebron more clutch than Jordan is obviously debatable since Lebron played more playoff game and Jordan had more championship. Lebron is more clutch than Kobe. If you had called Lebron a choker in 2009 I would have agreed with you but a lot has happened after 9 years. Lebron haters had this tendency of getting stuck in the unpolished and immature Lebron years while failing to see his improvements and achievements over the years. If Kryie Irving is the best you can muster in your argument that Lebron is a choker then I rest my case.  

 

I am not surprised that you didn't include him in your top 10 or even in your top 20. As a self proclaimed Lebron-hater your opinion is obviously bias, bears little weight and should be taken with a pinch of salt. Meanwhile top NBA analysts had already named James behind MJ as the greatest NBA Player which makes my top 5-10 ranking conservative.  :rolleyes:


Edited by red60, 17 September 2018 - 07:35 PM.


#1508 red60

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Posted 17 September 2018 - 07:28 PM

 

What would you give for AD? Also, AD is looking for a new agent and interested in Klutch (Lebron Agent) Sport: https://www.si.com/n...r-klutch-sports

 

Also, I know AD doesn't want SUPER TEAM and Lakers is not... at the moment.  :wub:

 

-----

 

Kyrie's shot (game 7) for me is one of the best closers I've seen. BUT, Lebron made that possible and he also carried Kyrie to the Finals. 

 

Without Kyrie, Lebron did a lot of closing last season. Here's a vid of 14 closer he made: https://www.youtube....h?v=1UhLPhegA2E (FIRST ONE VS BOSTON and KYRIE)  ;)

If there is commitment from AD I'll just wait for the 2020 free agency. However New Orleans might opt to trade him if they feel they have no chance of re-signing Davis. I think my decision who to trade for AD will depend on the development of the players. Man I hope Lonzo will improve his shooting. It was really painful to watch last season.  



#1509 will robie

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Posted 17 September 2018 - 08:48 PM

 

Irving hit more clutch shot than James? I don't think so. Assuming he did hit more clutch shot than James as a Cavalier then that does not make James a choker. Clutch stats I gave earlier (which you intentionally ignored) is comparing Lebron, MJ and Kobe which showed Lebron had the most made clutch shot and at a higher percentage. Lebron more clutch than Jordan is obviously debatable since Lebron played more playoff game and Jordan had more championship. Lebron is more clutch than Kobe. If you had called Lebron a choker in 2009 I would have agreed with you but a lot has happened after 9 years. Lebron haters had this tendency of getting stuck in the unpolished and immature Lebron years while failing to see his improvements and achievements over the years. If Kryie Irving is the best you can muster in your argument that Lebron is a choker then I rest my case.  

I was referring to a particular shot, not the volume of clutch shots. I was merely saying that Kyrie hit the most clutch shot in Cavs history. The shot he made over Curry, not the volume of shots. Re-read what I posted again. 



#1510 will robie

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Posted 17 September 2018 - 08:50 PM

I am not surprised that you didn't include him in your top 10 or even in your top 20. As a self proclaimed Lebron-hater your opinion is obviously bias, bears little weight and should be taken with a pinch of salt. Meanwhile top NBA analysts had already named James behind MJ as the greatest NBA Player which makes my top 5-10 ranking conservative.  

I am a Lechoke hater but I am just saying that Kyrie hit the most clutch shot in Cavs history. Well, each NBA analyst is entitled to his opinion. 



#1511 red60

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Posted 18 September 2018 - 03:09 AM

I was referring to a particular shot, not the volume of clutch shots. I was merely saying that Kyrie hit the most clutch shot in Cavs history. The shot he made over Curry, not the volume of shots. Re-read what I posted again. 

 

so "most" was referring to quality not quantity.

 

Ok so in your opinion he hit the most important shot in Cavs history. So what is the relevance to Lebron being a choker? 

 

Kyrie Irving hitting clutch shots in the playoff does not make Lebron a choker. Like I said earlier, Lebron hit more clutch shots in the playoff than Jordan and Kobe. You can still argue that Jordan or Kobe is more clutch but calling him choker at this point in his career is plain baseless and dumb. 


Edited by red60, 18 September 2018 - 03:10 AM.


#1512 red60

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Posted 18 September 2018 - 03:16 AM

I am a Lechoke hater but I am just saying that Kyrie hit the most clutch shot in Cavs history. Well, each NBA analyst is entitled to his opinion. 

 

Yes, everyone is entitled to his/her opinion but opinions that are not supported by facts are merely empty opinions and should not be taken seriously.  



#1513 will robie

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Posted 18 September 2018 - 09:10 PM

 

so "most" was referring to quality not quantity.

 

Ok so in your opinion he hit the most important shot in Cavs history. So what is the relevance to Lebron being a choker? 

 

Kyrie Irving hitting clutch shots in the playoff does not make Lebron a choker. Like I said earlier, Lebron hit more clutch shots in the playoff than Jordan and Kobe. You can still argue that Jordan or Kobe is more clutch but calling him choker at this point in his career is plain baseless and dumb. 

Again, I was referring to a particular shot by Kyrie when he was isolated against Curry on the right side of the court with less than a minute left. Did I say Lechoke was a choker? Kindly point the post to me. 

 

Really? Did he? I can't comment on something that I haven't read about. 


 

Yes, everyone is entitled to his/her opinion but opinions that are not supported by facts are merely empty opinions and should not be taken seriously.  

Ok then. Can Lechoke top the shot that Kyrie did? If you can show me a shot made by Lechoke as a Cav that trumps what Kyrie hit, I will be waiting for it.  


Edited by will robie, 18 September 2018 - 09:13 PM.


#1514 Sirbas

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Posted 19 September 2018 - 12:00 AM

I cannot still believe we got Lebron James until I see him wearing the Golden Armor on opening night. Yes, he is an oldie now but I believe he can still carry us to the playoffs. Here's a new scrimmage workout: https://www.youtube....h?v=W-c2ffZdKkU

 

Isa buwan nalang. Lapit na!  :D



#1515 vienvenido

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Posted 19 September 2018 - 04:32 PM

Go go lakers.....

#1516 weezy88

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Posted 21 September 2018 - 12:00 PM

Can't wait to see the new LA Lakers Squad




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