Larry Legend or King James

[will robie]

 

James’s accomplishments are lessened as well as by having played his first 15 years in a historically terrible Eastern Conference with relatively little team or individual competition compared to Bird.

For most of LBJ’s career, the NBA (East) he has dominated is a diluted and bloated 30-team product dragged down by over-expansion, poor fundamentals and a product geared more toward entertainment than fierce competition.

The East was the weak junior varsity half of the league during LeBron’s tenure with Cleveland and Miami, whereas the East was incredibly top-heavy with great teams during Bird’s career. Thus the “eight straight years in the Finals” argument for James is incredibly weak. Put the Hall of Fame-laden Bird Celtics in the NBA of the past decade and they would have won 10 straight conference crowns and almost that many NBA titles.

Another excerpt on why Larry is greater than Lechoke.

Edited August 19, 2019 by will robie

[red60]

Di ba 1989-90 season yung kay David Robinson? Ang alam ko kasi dun siya naging ROY kahit na nadraft siya nung 1987.

 

Yes, he was drafted in 1987 but played in 1989 season because he had to serve in the Navy hence the alias "The Admiral". More or less same situation as Bird

[will robie]

 

 

So if a player doesn’t look as smooth or play like the stereotypical superstar many fans been brainwashed and/or accustomed to seeing, they tend to suspect they are not as good as others who are flashier, especially someone who looked like Larry Bird.

There is a brainwashed and shallow Lechoke troll here who is so piqued because I stated facts which makes Larry greater than Lechoke which diminishes the status of its idol. I get a kick out of it when I don't even need to try to piss it off.

 

It is obviously terrified in engaging me, hence, it only quotes posts by other posters that I argue with. But I don't blame it. It can't argue intelligently since it is limited to ad hominem posts which only pollutes this thread.

Edited August 20, 2019 by will robie

[will robie]

 

 

The Eastern Conference when Bird played was a monster, with the 76ers, Bucks, Hawks and later on Pistons being championship-worthy opponents Boston had to navigate just to get to the Finals. The situation was almost exactly reversed then, with the West of the 1980s being extremely weak and giving the Lakers an easy path to the Finals eight times out of 10 in that decade.

Need I say more?

[red60]

Thanks for answering my question. Noted on the Admiral and Duncan. Anyway, I will just quote your posts from now on. You are the only one making sense here since this argument started.

 

You know I really like Larry Bird but this blog with an unnamed author you are fond of quoting is very bias. Basically the jizz of the excepts posted, Larry Bird is better than LBJ because he faced stronger competition in the 80s. Which I partially agree BUT the blogger failed to point out that Larry Bird played with many hall of fame players and superstars. In fact, they were not just hall of fame players, 5 players were inducted in the 50 greatest players in '96 (Mchale, Archibald, Cowens, Walton, Parish). Dennis Johnson who was not HOF is considered one of the best defender. Bird even said he was the best player on the team. I agree LBJ played in a weaker Eastern Conference but who were his teammates in his first stint in Cavaliers? Aside from overweight and old Shaquille O'Neal none of them were HOF or even reached All-NBA team. This blogger is comparing Oranges to Rambutan. Very bias IMHO. This is expected coming from a die hard Celtic fan.

 

This certain blog from a Celtic fan being repeatedly quoted is getting old really fast. If this is all they can muster then Larry Bird is not a clear winner against LBJ.

Edited August 20, 2019 by red60

[will robie]

 

You know I really like Larry Bird but this blog with an unnamed author you are fond of quoting is very bias. Basically the jizz of the excepts posted, Larry Bird is better than LBJ because he faced stronger competition in the 80s. Which I partially agree BUT the blogger failed to point out that Larry Bird played with many hall of fame players and superstars. In fact, they were not just hall of fame players, 5 players were inducted in the 50 greatest players in '96 (Mchale, Archibald, Cowens, Walton, Parish). Dennis Johnson who was not HOF is considered one of the best defender. Bird even said he was the best player on the team. I agree LBJ played in a weaker Eastern Conference but who were his teammates in his first stint in Cavaliers? Aside from overweight and old Shaquille O'Neal none of them were HOF or even reached All-NBA team. This blogger is comparing Oranges to Rambutan. Very bias IMHO. This is expected coming from a die hard Celtic fan.

 

This certain blog from a Celtic fan being repeatedly quoted is getting old really fast. If this is all they can muster then Larry Bird is not a clear winner against LBJ.

The blogger was just making an educated opinion based on facts. Mchale and Parish are in the Hall of Fame because of Bird. When Larry went down with an injury in 1988-89, Parish and Mchale barely carried the Cs to the playoffs with a 42-40 record, good for eighth in the East and got swept by Detroit in the first round. Parish and Mchale are good complimentary players but they are not franchise players. Playing with a great unselfish player makes you better.

 

It's not Larry's fault that Lechoke did not make his teammates better.

 

No one cut Bird that slack. As the great white hope in a black-dominated league AND by starring for the much-hated Celtics, the league’s runaway most successful franchise, Larry and Gang Green got every team’s best shot every game. Bird rarely if ever backed down from a challenge, and this constant grind helped lead to his injury-induced early departure from the sport.

Yet he earned the grudging respect of everyone in the league because of this (and his great ability/skill/toughness/clutch play), and also since he did not complain ar make excuses when injured or defeated. James does not enjoy this same respect, as he is known for whining and complaining, alienating teammates, disrespecting coaches and padding stats, as well as shamelessly chasing rings in order to augment his GOAT argument status.

The statement in bold is the reason Lechoke did not make his teammates better. He was lucky that Kyrie Irving made the greatest shot in Cavs history, otherwise, he'd be ringless as a Cavalier.

[red60]

The blogger was just making an educated opinion based on facts. Mchale and Parish are in the Hall of Fame because of Bird. When Larry went down with an injury in 1988-89, Parish and Mchale barely carried the Cs to the playoffs with a 42-40 record, good for eighth in the East and got swept by Detroit in the first round. Parish and Mchale are good complimentary players but they are not franchise players. Playing with a great unselfish player makes you better.

 

It's not Larry's fault that Lechoke did not make his teammates better.

The statement in bold is the reason Lechoke did not make his teammates better. He was lucky that Kyrie Irving made the greatest shot in Cavs history, otherwise, he'd be ringless as a Cavalier.

 

Educated opinion to readers who share the blogger's sentiments perhaps. He would have been credible if he only stuck with facts and not inject his personal hatred towards Lebron. 42-40 without your best player injured sounds about right in a stacked eastern conference. A normal team would have been out of the playoffs.

 

"James does not enjoy this same respect, as he is known for whining and complaining, alienating teammates, disrespecting coaches and padding stats, as well as shamelessly chasing rings in order to augment his GOAT argument status"

 

This statement painting Lebron James as some sort of locker room cancer destroyed whatever credibility this blogger had.

 

Lebron James not making his teammate better is pure rubbish. LBJ was an elite playmaker and has exceptional court vision. While He scored a lot of points at a very high efficiency, he was always known to setup his teammates for easy baskets. LBJ early in his career was not fortunate as Larry Bird to have championship calibre front office. Furthermore, Lebron James has a good reputation in and out of the basketball court. If he was really an assh*le, would Wade and Bosh join him in Miami? Even after Lebron moved back to Cleveland, Mike Miller and James Jones followed LBJ because he had deep friendship with both players. Mike Miller said, one of the reasons why LBJ left is because the Heat amnestied him (MIke Miller). This narrative by some media members that Lebron is a poor teammate is horsesh*t. Heck Larry Bird had a rift with Mchale because he feels that Mchale is underachieving and can still do a lot more. Does that count as complaining? Does this affect Bird's legacy? Does that make him a poor teammate? Last time I checked Michael Jordan was punching and verbally abusing his teammates. Did that affect his legacy? About ring chasing, any competitive sport's athlete should be ring / trophy chasing. Kobe Bryant vocally wants to surpass Michael Jordan and be the GOAT, is there anything wrong with that?

 

This blogger had some good points but his personal hate for Lebron veered him away from facts. I can understand why his blog was appealing to you. You idolize Larry Bird and you abhor Lebron James.

Edited August 20, 2019 by red60

[will robie]

 

Educated opinion to readers who share the blogger's sentiments perhaps. He would have been credible if he only stuck with facts and not inject his personal hatred towards Lebron. 42-40 without your best player injured sounds about right in a stacked eastern conference. A normal team would have been out of the playoffs.

If we go by this post, then opinions praising James are also educated opinions to those who share the favorable opinions on James.

 

 

"James does not enjoy this same respect, as he is known for whining and complaining, alienating teammates, disrespecting coaches and padding stats, as well as shamelessly chasing rings in order to augment his GOAT argument status"

Which is why Lechoke really didn't have the sympathy of his teammates. Prime example is Kyrie Irving who didn't want to play with him anymore. Moreover, he disrespected Eric Spoelstra and was believed to be behind the firing of David Blatt.

Edited August 21, 2019 by will robie

[will robie]

 

This statement painting Lebron James as some sort of locker room cancer destroyed whatever credibility this blogger had.

 

Lebron James not making his teammate better is pure rubbish. LBJ was an elite playmaker and has exceptional court vision. While He scored a lot of points at a very high efficiency, he was always known to setup his teammates for easy baskets. LBJ early in his career was not fortunate as Larry Bird to have championship calibre front office. Furthermore, Lebron James has a good reputation in and out of the basketball court. If he was really an assh*le, would Wade and Bosh join him in Miami? Even after Lebron moved back to Cleveland, Mike Miller and James Jones followed LBJ because he had deep friendship with both players. Mike Miller said, one of the reasons why LBJ left is because the Heat amnestied him (MIke Miller). This narrative by some media members that Lebron is a poor teammate is horsesh*t. Heck Larry Bird had a rift with Mchale because he feels that Mchale is underachieving and can still do a lot more. Does that count as complaining? Does this affect Bird's legacy? Does that make him a poor teammate? Last time I checked Michael Jordan was punching and verbally abusing his teammates. Did that affect his legacy? About ring chasing, any competitive sport's athlete should be ring / trophy chasing. Kobe Bryant vocally wants to surpass Michael Jordan and be the GOAT, is there anything wrong with that?

Mike Miller and James Jones are not exactly Bill Walton or DJ. Larry Bird had a rift with Mchale? Really now. Kobe Bryant never went to another team to chase rings. He stayed put with the Lakers and just let management have the problem of luring primetime players to the Lakers. I used to detest Kobe Bryant being a Celtic fan but I have grown to respect Bryant because he never left the Lakers and stayed with them through thick and thin. James bailed out on the Cavs and Heat when he thought that the situation was untenable. As for MJ, the Bulls went 57-25 during the year Jordan was in retirement and forced a Game 7 against the Knicks. That series could have gone either way. That's a knock on Jordan's legacy that hasn't been really talked about. The Bulls didn't need Jordan to be competitive.

[will robie]

 

This blogger had some good points but his personal hate for Lebron veered him away from facts. I can understand why his blog was appealing to you. You idolize Larry Bird and you abhor Lebron James.

I don't think the blogger hates Lechoke. He was just making a point why Larry is better than Lechoke. Yes, I idolize Bird and hate James. I won't deny that. The major reason of my hate for James is because he left the Cavs just to chase rings with two other All Stars. I used to respect him but after that move, I lost all my respect for him. In spite of my hate, I acknowledge that he is a freak athlete and a franchise player.

Edited August 21, 2019 by will robie

[icock2017]

Both great, but if had to pick will go with Larry legend

[Chippy23]

Lebron will surpass Larry once his playing career is over. Not a Lebron fan but I think he's almost there. Maybe the better question to ask if KD or Kawhi will also surpass Larry Legend.

[will robie]

 

In Hollywood, he is finding out that a new generation of younger players is not as willing as his ex-Cavalier teammates to take his occasional non-accountability, ball-heavy usage and overbearing ego.

When his teams win, it has been framed as being because of LeBron. When his teams lose, it has been painted as due to the shortcomings of his teammates, not his.

Lechoke is not even a leader.

[red60]

Mike Miller and James Jones are not exactly Bill Walton or DJ. Larry Bird had a rift with Mchale? Really now. Kobe Bryant never went to another team to chase rings. He stayed put with the Lakers and just let management have the problem of luring primetime players to the Lakers. I used to detest Kobe Bryant being a Celtic fan but I have grown to respect Bryant because he never left the Lakers and stayed with them through thick and thin. James bailed out on the Cavs and Heat when he thought that the situation was untenable. As for MJ, the Bulls went 57-25 during the year Jordan was in retirement and forced a Game 7 against the Knicks. That series could have gone either way. That's a knock on Jordan's legacy that hasn't been really talked about. The Bulls didn't need Jordan to be competitive.

 

 

I don't think the blogger hates Lechoke. He was just making a point why Larry is better than Lechoke. Yes, I idolize Bird and hate James. I won't deny that. The major reason of my hate for James is because he left the Cavs just to chase rings with two other All Stars. I used to respect him but after that move, I lost all my respect for him. In spite of my hate, I acknowledge that he is a freak athlete and a franchise player.

 

"Yes, I idolize Bird and hate James."

 

This is the reason why it is impossible for you to make an objective and unbiased comparison between the two players. The unnamed blog caters to your opinion thus you concur the every word uttered even if it fails to give credit to Lebron and exaggerating media gossips. Like I said if Lebron James was really a poor teammate and toxic in the locker rooms then Wade and Bosh would have never joined him in Miami and supporting cast and Wade would have never followed him to Cleveland.

 

"Kobe Bryant never went to another team to chase rings. He stayed put with the Lakers and just let management have the problem of luring primetime players to the Lakers. "

 

Players should play his entire career for 1 team is old school mentality. Not everyone is fortunate to be drafted in a big market team like Boston and LA. If signing to another team and requesting for trade diminishes the greatness of a player then that is your own opinion. An opinion that coincidentally favors your idol Larry Bird. I would like to remind you that Shaq, Jabbar, Wilt signed or requested to be traded to another team which enabled them to win multiple championships. Does that diminish their greatness? Lebron James was not fortunate to have legendary Red Auerbach as his general manager nor any hall of fame teammates in his first Cavs so he took matters into his own hands. He won 2 championships with the Heat and went back to Cavaliers to win one more.

[will robie]

This is the reason why it is impossible for you to make an objective and unbiased comparison between the two players. The unnamed blog caters to your opinion thus you concur the every word uttered even if it fails to give credit to Lebron and exaggerating media gossips. Like I said if Lebron James was really a poor teammate and toxic in the locker rooms then Wade and Bosh would have never joined him in Miami and supporting cast and Wade would have never followed him to Cleveland.

 

I already stated facts about why I came to the opinion that Larry is better than Lechoke. I will admit that Lechoke is the better athlete but that's all I will concede to Lechoke.

Players should play his entire career for 1 team is old school mentality. Not everyone is fortunate to be drafted in a big market team like Boston and LA. If signing to another team and requesting for trade diminishes the greatness of a player then that is your own opinion. An opinion that coincidentally favors your idol Larry Bird. I would like to remind you that Shaq, Jabbar, Wilt signed or requested to be traded to another team which enabled them to win multiple championships. Does that diminish their greatness? Lebron James was not fortunate to have legendary Red Auerbach as his general manager nor any hall of fame teammates in his first Cavs so he took matters into his own hands. He won 2 championships with the Heat and went back to Cavaliers to win one more.

Yes, they requested to be traded but Lechoke did not get traded. He was already a free agent and conspired with Bosh and Wade to form a super team.