The End of the American Century?

[dungeonbaby]

I doubt you will outlast it, Camiar

[camiar]

I doubt you will outlast it, Camiar

No, I won't.

 

But the founders of USA had the foresight that the British Empire will not last forever and they, too, can rise as a superpower, to dislodge UK. And they did.

 

The Chinese leadership's foresight sees the same inevitable decline of the USA, and they are making moves to prepare their country to dislodge the American dominance.

 

And what to we do? Ever subservient to the mighty USA, we are only capable of preparing only as far as our own individual funerals (hence your witty remark ). It's because to our myopic view, USA is forever.

Edited June 27, 2020 by camiar

[dungeonbaby]

I don't remember there ever being a post in this thread claiming America would be forever. Even if we spoke in terms of half a century it would be a useless discussion as no one knows these things. There is no need to remind that in today's world a virus can topple strong economies. So let me be clear before all else, by no means is America perfect.

 

Here's the thing, where a mob is judge, jury, and executioner no culture or nation can survive. In the US right now "[h]istory is dead. Intelligence is weakness. Wisdom is scorned" (Charles Hurt, WT, 26 June 2020). But who is spreading this destructive culture? The left. Who is the left? Where'd this tidal wave of hate for everything that America stands for come from, who is funding and fueling it? I mean, CA Dems have just voted to end racism by bringing back racial preference for employment. Hahahahah! Can't make up this idiocy.

 

If Democrats win in November, yes China might have an in as it has deep ties with Biden. Why anyone in the world would celebrate this is a mystery, seeing as how China is an authoritarian state that tolerates no dissent. Filipinos who are concerned about China's encroachment on Philippine territories should be worried because a weak US means an even more unfettered advance on our vulnerable nation. We have no security and if you think we are a courageous people willing to die for our sovereignty you would be sadly mistaken. Lest you are tempted to think otherwise, you, as an intellectual and as "racially inferior" to Chinese, could not survive the CCP if it took over.

 

Preparing to dislodge American dominance? Is that what was happening that last trade deal with Trump before they unleashed the wuhan virus? Or are you referring to covid as a war strategy?

 

China can only take the reigns with deceit. Isn't that what they've been doing all along? Spying, stealing, bullying, and lying. Oh these endless lies they peddle. You can hate America, but at least be realistic on what would happen to the world, to the Philippines, if it failed.

 

People can go ahead and fawn on the EU or China, or this fantasy Asia with its superior and generous treatment of Filipinos LOL. I hope you are all hedging your bets though and preparing to deal with the world's bad actors if America goes kaput.

 

Me, I agree with Abraham Lincoln on the earth's last best hope.

Edited June 27, 2020 by dungeonbaby

[camiar]

When I said "to our myopic view, USA is forever", I was not referring to you or me, but to the Pinoys in general. If you back read the other previous posts, you'd see a lot of them. Even among my friends and relatives in the States and Canada, a lot of them believe the same, to my dismay, the USA is forever.

 

But i am not fawning on China when I say they will soon dislodge USA as the World's dominant power. I just see it as an inevitability. But it is not just because of China's effort to strengthen themselves, but more so because of the American society continuing in their downward spiral. America no longer respect the values they used to stand for. They pledge to "One Nation under God" in their Pledge of Allegiance, and yet today, they declared reading of the Bible and praying to God in schools and courts of justice unconstitutional.

 

Abraham Lincoln say Freedom is the last best hope of earth. But why did they trample upon the freedom of the Iraqis on false claims that Iraq has weapons of mass destruction? Something which they failed to prove after Iraq was utterly destroyed. It turned out they were not as much after WMDs as the control of Middle East oil production. How many Latin American freedoms have they destroyed when CIA orchestrated regime changes of any Latin American government whose leader showed tendency to pursue self-determination for their country and follow policies independent of what America dictates?

 

After we were handed our Independence in 1946, since when were we able to pursue an independent foreign policy? All our leaders who attempted to pursue policies of self-determination were destroyed politically to lose in election bids, or were politically and economically blackmailed by pro-US oligarchs to toe the line, or were deposed, and I suspect, one was even assassinated but was made to look like it was an accident. Isn't it that Freedom means you have the right to self determination? If so, the US is not helping us achieve that goal.

Do you think US is a deterrent to Chinese encroachment? The Chinese already know that US will only push back if their own selfish interest is at stake. Don't count on the US to protect our sovereignty. We have no one to rely on except ourselves to fight for our own interests and for our freedom.

Edited June 30, 2020 by camiar

[dungeonbaby]

 

But i am not fawning on China when I say they will soon dislodge USA as the World's dominant power. I just see it as an inevitability. But it is not just because of China's effort to strengthen themselves, but more so because of the American society continuing in their downward spiral. America no longer respect the values they used to stand for. They pledge to "One Nation under God" in their Pledge of Allegiance, and yet today, they declared reading of the Bible and praying to God in schools and courts of justice unconstitutional.

 

The America you complain of here is the left in general, the Democratic party in particular which has been showing its true colors again. This is the America that loves socialism, communism, and China but hates religion and their constitution.

 

China toppling the US is not an inevitability. Pre-covid you'd be laughed off the stage arguing that.

 

 

Do you think US is a deterrent to Chinese encroachment? The Chinese already know that US will only push back if their own selfish interest is at stake. Don't count on the US to protect our sovereignty. We have no one to rely on except ourselves to fight for our own interests and for our freedom.

 

And the US does have an interest in open seas.

 

I don't expect the US to protect us. I expect them to want to maintain good relations here and not want China to take over a nation it once counted as an ally. That's not saying I think they will go to war for us. But a strong America is good for keeping a bully at bay. People who say the Philippines will fight China off on her own are living in a fantasy land. They're already here, how long have I been saying on these threads that occupation is key? How long has China occupied our territories? Ten years? Are Filipinos fighting yet? Tinalo na nga tayo ng Vietnam, na maliit at dating kulelat, sa tapang e. And you want to bank on our people? lol good luck with that, we can't even stomach fighting obvious terrorism in Mindanao.

 

 

Abraham Lincoln say Freedom is the last best hope of earth.

 

No, he was referring to America (the Union).

 

Final note on this reply, I notice the words you use for America: selfish, trampling on others' freedoms, etc. Have you ever used those words to describe China or do you reserve your deepest hatred just for America? Because it's really weird that someone would prefer China as a world power, a proven tyrant even to its own people, a nation that has committed the most murders in history, to the US. Your anger is great and it shows.

Edited June 29, 2020 by dungeonbaby

[camiar]

 

The America you complain of here is the left in general, the Democratic party in particular which has been showing its true colors again. This is the America that loves socialism, communism, and China but hates religion and their constitution.

 

 

 

There is no "Leftist" America. If there were true leftists in the US, they are an insignificant minority.

The Democrats are not leftists; neither does it mean that Republicans are necessarily rightists. If there were true rightists, they too, are an insignificant minority.

 

Branding the Dems as leftists, socialists, communists, etc... is just a political smear tactic of the Trump campaign team.

 

It's called "Red Baiting".

 

A fallacy.

 

BTW, politically, I lean towards Republicans but I'm not a Trump fan.

[camiar]

 

China toppling the US is not an inevitability. Pre-covid you'd be laughed off the stage arguing that.

 

 

Pre-covid, I can already see the signs when analyzing the American and Chinese economic and military trends.

 

Maybe I'd be laughed off the stage arguing that point. It doesn't mean I'm wrong. People used to think that the earth is flat and they burned people at the stake for saying otherwise.

 

It doesn't mean, too, that I'm pro-China, which you seem to conclude.

[dungeonbaby]

"There is no "Leftist" America. If there were true leftists in the US, they are an insignificant minority.

The Democrats are not leftists; neither does it mean that Republicans are necessarily rightists. If there were true rightists, they too, are an insignificant minority.

Branding the Dems as leftists, socialists, communists, etc... is just a political smear tactic of the Trump campaign team."

 

 

How Marxist does one have to be before they become a real leftist in your book?

Just off the top of my head here are examples of leftists/socialists in America, organizations, programs, and people:

The loudest force in the US right now is BLM. It's a hashtag, a black profile square, and, in some cases, a true cry for justice. But the organization is a different matter altogether. Black Lives Matter leaders are "trained Marxists." You know, as in Karl Marx, the communist. Did I just get that off a headline or conservative talking point? No, that's from their mouths. And yes, I had been reading their websites (BLM, M4BL) because they have a whole lot of troubling positions such as calling for an end to the nuclear family (so the community rears children together wow), getting rid of prisons, and the retroactive elimination of life sentences. Not extreme or big enough for you?

America is already partly socialist, welfare programs are socialist, universal health care is socialist. These are programs pushed on both sides of the aisle but are there communists in the Democratic Party? Yes. FDR's people are worth a look, but today Dem rockstar Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez is, and her Green New Deal is well...you have to read it to believe how communist it is. The Dems acquiesce to her because she is beloved by her fans, and they are plenty. Heck, my friends here sing her praises. Twice presidential hopeful Bernie Sanders is a communist. They call it Democratic Socialism to soften the brand. But he's a communist-loving socialist. Is that more accurate? Bill de Blasio, mayor of one of the most overtly capitalist places in the world, is a communist. O sige, socialist. Pare-pareho lang patutunguhan non.

Oh let's not forget about Antifa. That is the left. The violent, fascist left.

Bill Ayers, Obama's mentor, was an actual leftist terrorist. He's been mainstreamed and deemed acceptable by America's educational institutions which are now being rocked by scandals of their own, taking money from the Chinese Communist Party. Look it up. Those headlines may have been buried in the middle of the global crisis brought on by China's...communist ways.

Actually if you were going to say that this was China's strategy all along you and I might find common ground. Taiwanese-Americans are going on record saying they fear for the US because they see Red China's machinations everywhere. Hollywood, which influences how Pinoys think as much as CNN, the WaPo, and the NYT do, is obviously bought. China is a huge market after all and *ka-ching ka-ching* talks. There are card-carrying communist party members in Hollywood and, going by their crazy tweets, celebs are unapologetic fans of communist regimes. What about sports? I'm sure you see all the pandering that's going on. Before it caved to China's complaints, Bloomberg, the news agency, had written about mainstream media outlets being bought by the CCP. The BBC is facing the same charges. Watch the news, see how much pro-China and anti-US stuff is being broadcast. Bilangin mo lang to see if the news is balanced given whose actions in the recent pandemic were more egregious.

 

Pre-covid, I can already see the signs when analyzing the American and Chinese economic and military trends.

Maybe I'd be laughed off the stage arguing that point. It doesn't mean I'm wrong. People used to think that the earth is flat and they burned people at the stake for saying otherwise.

It doesn't mean, too, that I'm pro-China, which you seem to conclude.

 

Doesn't mean you're right either. Some of the early posts here predicted the US' demise on peak oil claims. And then came the Trump-era US boom in oil and its consequent status as a net exporter of energy. But if you want to make predictions go ahead and lay out your case on how China is going to win.

 

I conclude based on what I read. If you were a news outlet I'd say you definitely swayed one way and you've harped on pretty much the same things when it comes to the US. I think I have an okay handle on your positions and we've been engaged in dialogue here for what, close to a decade now. That's not to say you haven't held some surprising viewpoints through the years, so you're always welcome to be surprising.

 

BTW, politically, I lean towards Republicans but I'm not a Trump fan.

 

He's very similar to Reagan, except Reagan was far, far more eloquent. But this is the Twitter age and he is who the GOP had. I've read everywhere, and have been told to my face that Americans are idiots and racists and that's the only reason they love Trump. But that's not empirically true. People can challenge me on that and it'd be easy to destroy their argument with facts. Not feelings, but facts. Today people like to pretend Biden will be better for the world. I'd like to see someone say that here and stay for the duration of the ensuing argument. Sobrang walang kwenta ng Dems, of the top 20 US cities that are not making it, 19 are run by Democrats. The last Dem I liked was JFK and his party has moved so far to the left of him he wouldn't be able to recognize them today.

Edited this to be less cantankerous, sorry if you read the original version which was (pretty polite but) still too much like me

[camiar]

 

I don't expect the US to protect us. I expect them to want to maintain good relations here and not want China to take over a nation it once counted as an ally. That's not saying I think they will go to war for us. But a strong America is good for keeping a bully at bay. People who say the Philippines will fight China off on her own are living in a fantasy land. They're already here, how long have I been saying on these threads that occupation is key? How long has China occupied our territories? Ten years? Are Filipinos fighting yet? Tinalo na nga tayo ng Vietnam, na maliit at dating kulelat, sa tapang e. And you want to bank on our people? lol good luck with that, we can't even stomach fighting obvious terrorism in Mindanao.

 

 

But unlike you, a lot of Pinoys still expect the US to protect them.

 

Fortunately, it seems that it had finally sunk in to the minds of our new generation of military leaders that US will only protect its own interest. To protect ourselves, we have to gain at least a minimum level of credible defense capability. We now have brand new warships and warplanes. It's still not enough to stop China in a shooting war but it's a hopeful start to a long journey towards being able to stand up for our own.

 

The US will not go to war for us. They want us to go to a proxy war FOR THEM, purportedly for the defense of freedom in the Asia Pacific region, but actually it is to prevent their enemies from reaching the US West Coast.

 

In WW 2, we fought to disrupt the Japanese timetable and successfully prevented them from crossing the Pacific Ocean to bring the war to American shores. What do we get in return? Nothing. They pulled McArthur out of the Philippines and abandoned us to the Japanese. President Quezon put our sentiments accurately in his words after hearing about the "Europe First" policy and that the US sent large amounts of supplies and planes to Europe instead of the Philippines: "...For thirty years I have worked and hoped for my people. Now they burn and die for a flag that could not protect them... Where are the planes this sinverquenza is boasting of? Que Demonio! - how typically American to writhe in anguish for the fate of a distant cousin while a daughter is being raped in the backroom!..."

 

Today we are nothing to the US but a part of an island chain forming a defensive buffer zone between China and the American West coast. That fact doesn't go unnoticed by the Chinese, as well as by our own military leaders.

 

China occupied territories in our EEZ. They did it because they could. And they know the Americans won't lift a finger to stop them. We only fired off diplomatic protest because that's the only course of action we can do.

 

Vietnam, on a moralistic point of view, did well on their own in standing up to the Chinese on SCS conflict using unarmed Vietnamese "fishermen" to harass the Chinese vessels. I admire them for what they did. But just like us, they're not strong enough and they, too, failed to stop the Chinese encroachment.

 

I don't know from where you're coming from denigrating the Filipino's will to fight. I can only guess it's borne of your ignorance. Get to know our soldiers. You'll be surprised.

 

 

Edited July 1, 2020 by camiar

[TheSmilingBandit]

Interesting PoVs from Camiar and Dungeonbaby, though I would like to ask a question that I hope you guys could answer.

According to Camiar, there are "no" leftists in the USA, so what/how would you (individually) describe the "wilder" Democrats?

[camiar]

Interesting PoVs from Camiar and Dungeonbaby, though I would like to ask a question that I hope you guys could answer.

 

According to Camiar, there are "no" leftists in the USA, so what/how would you (individually) describe the "wilder" Democrats?

People tend to misinterpret populist stance of US politicians as being communists/ leftists.

 

Populists' political approach is to appeal to ordinary people who feel that they are being disregarded by the more powerful established elite groups.

 

Both Republicans and Democrats in the US use populist rhetoric to gain votes from the poorer sector of American voters.

 

It just so happen that the Dems have more voters who are in lower economic class, many of them racial minorities. That's why they're more vocal about populist concerns such as social security benefits, minimum wage, health insurance, etc...

 

But that doesn't mean those who talk of populist concerns are communists. Have you heard of any mainstream Democrat politician advocating the State to takeover the private businesses and properties then distribute the benefits of production to the people? That's the real communist/socialist ideology which will not take hold in the US.

 

Edited August 2, 2020 by camiar

[MRROUGHSEX]

Interesting PoVs from Camiar and Dungeonbaby, though I would like to ask a question that I hope you guys could answer.

 

According to Camiar, there are "no" leftists in the USA, so what/how would you (individually) describe the "wilder" Democrats?

 

I would describe them as hypocrites and even terrorists. Not literal terrorists but the same vein as someone spreading and stoking unnecessary angst against American values.

[OjanOgnimod]

Whos your bet ba?

[johnlove]

As long as China can't let go of Taiwan and South China Sea, she will never be no. 1

[camiar]

As long as China can't let go of Taiwan and South China Sea, she will never be no. 1

Taiwan is to China as Cuba is to America.

 

Both islands are a security risk to the mainland because these islands are subservient to the mainland's enemy.

[camiar]

As long as China can't let go of Taiwan and South China Sea, she will never be no. 1

 

China wants to control the South China Sea as defensive buffer zone of China's east coast, just as the USA controls the Pacific Ocean as defensive buffer zone of the US west coast.

[dungeonbaby]

Interesting PoVs from Camiar and Dungeonbaby, though I would like to ask a question that I hope you guys could answer.

 

According to Camiar, there are "no" leftists in the USA, so what/how would you (individually) describe the "wilder" Democrats?

 

Wildly illogical or wildly scheming.

 

Communists and anti-Semites historically band together, and "The Squad" - current rockstars of the Democrat party because of their popularity with woke millennials - are exactly that kind of a clique. I should say cabal. AOC is a communist in Neiman Marcus outfits, Ilhan Omar and Rashida Tlaib are oppressed anti-Semites. Lol.

 

Bernie Sanders is a communist, there's just no way around it. He was winning big in the Democrat primaries until the DNC decided they couldn't win the presidency with him (for now). That's the gracious version of my opinion, and I'm sure some will say Biden won fair and square. (Funny how in 4 years he was all they could come up with after all their posturing against old white racist men).

 

Now you know I like Camiar, but when he replies this way:

"But that doesn't mean those who talk of populist concerns are communists. Have you heard of any mainstream Democrat politician advocating the State to takeover the private businesses and properties then distribute the benefits of production to the people? That's the real communist/socialist ideology which will not take hold in the US"

 

it makes me think he did not read my replies carefully. That's ok.

 

While some believe there is no way communist ideology will take hold in the US, Reagan warned Americans last century how it would. As it turns out, the way it is permeating American culture right now is exactly how Reagan predicted it would.

 

 

 

But unlike you, a lot of Pinoys still expect the US to protect them.

 

Fortunately, it seems that it had finally sunk in to the minds of our new generation of military leaders that US will only protect its own interest. To protect ourselves, we have to gain at least a minimum level of credible defense capability. We now have brand new warships and warplanes. It's still not enough to stop China in a shooting war but it's a hopeful start to a long journey towards being able to stand up for our own.

 

The US will not go to war for us. They want us to go to a proxy war FOR THEM, purportedly for the defense of freedom in the Asia Pacific region, but actually it is to prevent their enemies from reaching the US West Coast.

 

In WW 2, we fought to disrupt the Japanese timetable and successfully prevented them from crossing the Pacific Ocean to bring the war to American shores. What do we get in return? Nothing. They pulled McArthur out of the Philippines and abandoned us to the Japanese. President Quezon put our sentiments accurately in his words after hearing about the "Europe First" policy and that the US sent large amounts of supplies and planes to Europe instead of the Philippines: "...For thirty years I have worked and hoped for my people. Now they burn and die for a flag that could not protect them... Where are the planes this sinverquenza is boasting of? Que Demonio! - how typically American to writhe in anguish for the fate of a distant cousin while a daughter is being raped in the backroom!..."

 

Today we are nothing to the US but a part of an island chain forming a defensive buffer zone between China and the American West coast. That fact doesn't go unnoticed by the Chinese, as well as by our own military leaders.

 

China occupied territories in our EEZ. They did it because they could. And they know the Americans won't lift a finger to stop them. We only fired off diplomatic protest because that's the only course of action we can do.

 

Vietnam, on a moralistic point of view, did well on their own in standing up to the Chinese on SCS conflict using unarmed Vietnamese "fishermen" to harass the Chinese vessels. I admire them for what they did. But just like us, they're not strong enough and they, too, failed to stop the Chinese encroachment.

 

I don't know from where you're coming from denigrating the Filipino's will to fight. I can only guess it's borne of your ignorance. Get to know our soldiers. You'll be surprised.

 

 

 

 

I don't doubt our military's bravery for one second, maybe you've forgotten my posts here.

 

I doubt the Filipino people as a whole. Look how long it took them to be angry at China dropping bases on our shores. I wish I was wrong but I doubt I am. We are a frightened (and hungry) nation, and I don't say that with any joy.

Edited October 1, 2020 by dungeonbaby

[lee sawyer]

 

Communists and anti-Semites historically band together, and "The Squad" - current rockstars of the Democrat party because of their popularity with woke millennials - are exactly that kind of a clique. I should say cabal. AOC is a communist in Neiman Marcus outfits, Ilhan Omar and Rashida Tlaib are oppressed anti-Semites. Lol.

 

 

The Democrats are not respectable anymore with personalities like Nadler, Schiff, Pelosi, Talib and Omar. Nadler and Schiff are jokers who got eviscerated by Trump's legal team of Jay Sekulow, Pam Bondi and Pat Cipollone. Talib and Omar, meanwhile, are rabidly Anti-Israel and Anti-Trump. Talib is disgusting. Talib's conduct was unbecoming of a politician when she made a video while she was walking and proudly said that she was gonna impeach Trump.

[dungeonbaby]

LS,

 

Doing everything they can to avoid people talking about their misdeeds. Schiff is a liar. Pelosi is the definition of a limousine liberal with her ice cream and mask-wearing hypocrisy. The party is pandering to extreme leftists like AOC, and mainstreaming idiotic ideas like defunding police despite zero data saying that is a smart move. Did you hear about the Minneapolis city council regretting its plan to defund the police because of the ensuing crime? You can't make this ridiculosity up. People need to open their eyes and see how Democrat-run cities are faring in terms of economy, law and order, covid response.

[lee sawyer]

LS,

 

Doing everything they can to avoid people talking about their misdeeds. Schiff is a liar. Pelosi is the definition of a limousine liberal with her ice cream and mask-wearing hypocrisy. The party is pandering to extreme leftists like AOC, and mainstreaming idiotic ideas like defunding police despite zero data saying that is a smart move. Did you hear about the Minneapolis city council regretting its plan to defund the police because of the ensuing crime? You can't make this ridiculosity up. People need to open their eyes and see how Democrat-run cities are faring in terms of economy, law and order, covid response.

Cities like San Francisco, Chicago and NYC?

 

Hopefully, the GOP regains its hold on the Lower House which will make Kevin McCarthy speaker. I admire how the Republicans defended POTUS during the sham impeachment hearings. I will never forget Jim Jordan, Doug Collins, Mike Johnson, Matt Gaetz, Andy Biggs, Debbie Lesko, Louie Gohmert, etc. and how they defended they tried to push back against the committees headed by those jokers, Schiff and Nadler.

Edited October 3, 2020 by lee sawyer

[dungeonbaby]

Cities like San Francisco, Chicago and NYC?

 

Hopefully, the GOP regains its hold on the Lower House which will make Kevin McCarthy speaker. I admire how the Republicans defended POTUS during the sham impeachment hearings. I will never forget Jim Jordan, Doug Collins, Mike Johnson, Matt Gaetz, Andy Biggs, Debbie Lesko, Louie Gohmert, etc. and how they defended they tried to push back against the committees headed by those jokers, Schiff and Nadler.

 

Yup.

 

Matt Gaetz et al. are good to watch but sometimes it feels like all the grandstanding amounts to nothing.

 

 

Now how about that Hunter lad and his laptop...good grief. Practically crickets from the Biden campaign team and the media.

[lee sawyer]

 

Yup.

 

Matt Gaetz et al. are good to watch but sometimes it feels like all the grandstanding amounts to nothing.

 

 

Now how about that Hunter lad and his laptop...good grief. Practically crickets from the Biden campaign team and the media.

Hunter Biden was in Burisma's board of directors not because he knew the oil business but because he was Joe Biden's kid. He was also dismissed from the Navy due to being a crackhead. At least the Trumps are legit company executives.

Edited October 21, 2020 by lee sawyer

[lee sawyer]

#TrumpPence2020

[dungeonbaby]

I shudder to think of a president kamala.

[camiar]

#TrumpPence2020

Even if Trump sucks, I'd rather see a Republican win than allow the Democrats to mess everything up again.

 

A Republican administration is good for the Philippines.

Edited November 3, 2020 by camiar