Bible Versus Science

vheRR · February 22, 2008

can you prove the existence of atoms and other scientific crap without taking the word of scientists? i mean seriously you yourself try to prove its existence.

di na kailangan, scientists have provided enough evidence for their existence. pero ung god nyo? he/she/it/they exist only in your imagination.
- All that scientific crap has been proven to exist... electrons, borons, hadrons, etc... they used to exist in thought experiments and theorems, but now, yes... enough empirical data has been gathered to prove, without a shadow of a doubt, that they exist.

:thumbsupsmiley:

simply even if something isnt there or appears to be unprovable through absence does not mean non existience. heck i havent ever met you save for the fact youre a blip posting in manilatonight. heck i can say you dont really exist and is merely an autoreply script.

if you are to use your imagination the way you use it in believing in your god, posible ngang hindi ako nag-i-exist. Kaso, sa imahinasyon mo lang po.
- heheheheheehehe... just in exactly the same way sa imahinasyon mo sir vherr, God does not exist...

:thumbsupsmiley: . Sa point of view mo, maaari nga po. Pero I do know how to distinguish imagination from reality.

and to answer your question, who do i prove the existence of God? well i say He exists for me. try disproving my own decision.

imahinasyon nyo lang po yan.

kung totoo ang isang bagay kahit na walang patunay na ang bagay na ito'y totoo, so wala nang hindi totoo, lahat na lang totoo.

mabuhay ang imahinasyon.

- TALAGANG MABUHAY ANG IMAHINASYON! Mas lalong mabuhay and freedom of speech at Manilatonight!!! maybe isnt it that in your individual world God does not exist and not the other way around? Isnt it more logical for a minority to be wrong?

:thumbsupsmiley: . I've already answered your questions in another post. Quality. Not Quantity.

bible versus science... hmmm... If based on facts alone, Im routing for science... If based on information and truth, go science go! If Ill base it on what is real, science takes the cake... case in point, science over the bible... hands down. The bible, being a book written by man, even if it was inspired by God, is STILL subject to mistakes, misinterpretations, etc etc... Not saying that science is perfect, what is right now, may not be right a couple of years from now.. More of a personal preference.

:thumbsupsmiley: , Normal po sa Science na magkaruon ng "..mistakes, misinterpretations, etc etc..", pero ang maganda sa Science, it correct itself as new evidences emerges to support it.

Sa Science, pag sinabi ko na "umiikot ang Sun sa Earth", kailangan kong patunayan ito.

Pero sa konsepto ng diyos, pag sinabi ko na "umiikot ang Sun Sa Earth", kailangan ko pa bang patunayan ito? Sasabihin ko lang na "magagalit ang diyos kung di kayo maniniwala", solve na.

With regard to God Vs. Science? comes hand in hand.. as ive said in other threads, I found God in science.. Sabagay, I think that i really believed in some sort of God but the empirical data was too heavily leaning on his not existing...

Or maybe your just using the word god to represent those questions that Science cannot yet answer. :thumbsupsmiley:

vheRR · February 22, 2008

pare kailangan nya ng scientist na magsabi paano lumilipad ang bird at ng masabi nyang hindi magic yun. or may puso ito and stomach and other innards para malaman paano gumagana ang buhay nito.

funny thing is, science is always changing with new discoveries that sometimes add or revise previous defined scientific knowledge.

paasahin na lang natin ang paniniwala nila sa ganun. if he says maniwala tayong lahat to science and logic without thinking for ourselves beyond that basic fundamental want beyond what science tells us, ewan ko lang kung matuwa sya sa buhay nya ever.

:thumbsupsmiley:

Hindi ka ba natutuwa sa lahat ng naibigay ng Science sa iyo.

Kung magkakaruon ka (halimbawa lang po) ng malubhang karamdaman, Kaya mo bang wag magpagamot (produkto ng Science) o gumamit ng gamot (produkto ng Science), at umasa na lang sa diyos mo para ikaw ay gumaling?

vheRR · February 22, 2008

It is not his imagination rather it is his faith that leads him to his belief.

Faith / Belief based on imagination.

Your right, you don't need proof to know and decide what is True.

Ang sabi ko: "kung totoo ang isang bagay kahit na walang patunay na ang bagay na ito'y totoo, so wala nang hindi totoo, lahat na lang totoo."

"kung" ung ginamit kong word. "Kung".

We need proof to know and decide what is true.

TRUTH is everywhere at walang hindi totoo. You deemed yourself to be an ATHEIST and that could be your TRUTH, it is there where your faith lies. You could say and rant all the things you want, that GOD does not exist but for some of us, this is not our TRUTH, so we choose not to believe you no matter what you say.

Sa mundo ng imahinasyon, lahat po ay totoo. Yan po bang gamit nyong cell phone or computer, totoo po ba yan sa inyong palagay? O baka guni-guni rin lang po yan? :thumbsupsmiley:

It's the same thing with science, Science is a Religion. It's made up of a lot of experiments, theories and explanations the same way the Bible has parables, verses and teachings. And like the Bible, science has a lot of versions, it's up to you which version you want to believe in. Proof is just a way for most of us to substantiate our faith (it also dictates how we practice our faith). People use to say the Earth is flat, now they say that it's round... if you still believe it is flat, who are we to contradict your faith?

"..Science is a Religion.." (sabi mo) that is based on proof and evidences.

Again, from my previous post:

"Sa Science, pag sinabi ko na "umiikot ang Sun sa Earth", kailangan kong patunayan ito.

Pero sa konsepto ng diyos, pag sinabi ko na "umiikot ang Sun Sa Earth", kailangan ko pa bang patunayan ito? Sasabihin ko lang na "magagalit ang diyos kung di kayo maniniwala", solve na."

For someone who claims to have no Religion, you sure have strong beliefs . An atheist with strong beliefs and convictions, now that's a real contradiction but anyway good luck with that cheers :cool:

Sigurado kasi ako na totoo ang gamit kong cellphone at computer.

Kaso luma na tong model ng cellphone na gamit ko, gusto ko sana ng N95, kaso wala pa kong pambili. Gamitin ko muna kaya imahinasyon ko para maranasan ko ang magkaruon ng bagong bagong N95 na cellphone.

Gusto mo rin makita ang N95 ko? :thumbsupsmiley:

vheRR · March 18, 2008

It sure is a shame that "God" didn't provide us with a clearer, more understandable description of the world and universe that he created, isn't it? One that didn't need constant reconciliation with the findings of science... One that didn't need to be explained as metaphors... One that didn't require up to four levels of meaning in any Scriptural passage. It seems that if he made the whole place and made us, that he could clearly and unambiguously communicate his construction in a way that could not be confused, right? This version would provide scientifically testable information. There is no reason he could not have provided this nor could not provide it still. Maybe he could give us a second Bible that was a tech-guide to the universe and speak through Stephen Hawking??? Then, we could quit wasting all of our time with scientific inquiry and just refer to the Book of Hawking [392:619] to understand what happened during the big bang or if there even was one.

id6230 · March 18, 2008

That is why religion has faith because it will otherwise be a perpetual clash in the search of truth with science.

screwdriver2 · March 25, 2008

Everything is like a giant puzzle. Science made progress picking out the pieces and figuring out some of its mechanics. But the the fact remains: Who place that giant puzzle before us?

I refuse to believe that nothing comes from nothing! That's absurd!

Can science create something out of nothing? Yes, Science can create atomic bomb that can level whole mountain.

But can science create life out of nothing?

screwdriver2 · March 25, 2008

It sure is a shame that "God" didn't provide us with a clearer, more understandable description of the world and universe that he created, isn't it? One that didn't need constant reconciliation with the findings of science... One that didn't need to be explained as metaphors... One that didn't require up to four levels of meaning in any Scriptural passage. It seems that if he made the whole place and made us, that he could clearly and unambiguously communicate his construction in a way that could not be confused, right? This version would provide scientifically testable information. There is no reason he could not have provided this nor could not provide it still. Maybe he could give us a second Bible that was a tech-guide to the universe and speak through Stephen Hawking??? Then, we could quit wasting all of our time with scientific inquiry and just refer to the Book of Hawking [392:619] to understand what happened during the big bang or if there even was one.

Albert Einstein said,"God always takes the simplest way". Which is more simple to you; have faith or finding the facts yourself?

Also, life is not created randomly like a dice. God just fixed the game already as Einstein stated in his own words," God does not play dice." :thumbsupsmiley:

jacuzzi · March 25, 2008

That is why religion has faith because it will otherwise be a perpetual clash in the search of truth with science.

Religion and science need not clash. Those who claim that the Bible has all the answers for science have not read the Bible. It is a false claim. You can be a good person practicing a deeply religious life and likewise be the best scientist in your field also. The real source of the conflict isn't religion. It is the way some people disguise their attitude of trying to LORD over people and using religion as an excuse.

Jesus never tried to lord it over men. He did the opposite and SERVED men instead. He is Lord because despite all the testing, he remained holy and Faithful to God.

screwdriver2 · March 25, 2008

The real fact is this.

Everything we see, hear, feel, or smell is govern by rules. Some of these rules have already been documented by science based on empirical data. We now know that planets on our solar system are orbiting around a sun because of gravitation and inertia. The same forces are being used by atoms which are composed of a central nucleus and a few revolving electrons. Though somewhat controversial, the theory of evolution made by Darwin made a startling revelation that every living things are made through a process of evolution, also made irrefutable by empirical data. The discovery of binary numbers (0s and 1s) that some thought they've discovered the holy grail of all languages, made the backbone of modern advances.

The question is: Why these rules? Why can't planet Earth just travel beyond its usual orbit so that we can travel to new universes? Why does birds have different varieties like colors, behaviours, eating patterns, etc? Why can't my Mac talk to my PC without using a common communication protocol like TCP/IP?

Science is alive today because of its notoriety for describing these rules. But what if these rules break up? See below for some classic examples.

1. Dividing waters of the Red Sea.

2. Lazarus raise from the dead.

3. Lepers being healed without medicine.

4. Walking on top of water.

5. Miraculous ability to speak and/or understand a foreign language (tongue) previously unknown to the speaker.

6. Blind men being cured.

7. Feeding of 5,000 men with just a basket of bread.

8. Sun stopped moving.

9. A great flood that killed everything but a few survivors.

10. Child being conceived without going to the process of impregnation.

Chaos comes when rules breakdown. If we are to believe the Creator Theory, one can imagine the beginning of everything: A soup of chaos.

Having said this, let's make a consensus that everything is a game which has a finite set of rules. Those who wants to play the game must obey the rules, otherwise, they're out. So let's play.

But wait! There's one catch. The game have already been started since the beginning of time! Maybe some of us know the rules but a lot of us doesn't! You might comment,"That isn't fair!".

Hey, buddy! Rules are rules! :hypocritesmiley:

And the fact is if there's a winner, is not unlikely that there more losers in this game.

Are u in or out?

*kalel* · April 7, 2008

they compliment each other

jacuzzi · April 7, 2008

There's one catch. The game have already been started since the beginning of time! Maybe some of us know the rules but a lot of us doesn't! You might comment,"That isn't fair!".

Hey, buddy! Rules are rules! :hypocritesmiley:

And the fact is if there's a winner, is not unlikely that there more losers in this game.

Are u in or out?

Bud, you're quite wrong.

Life is no game. It is a struggle to get over your ignorance and most of all, your silly prejudices. Human education is simply the ability to move forward by self-correcting attitude. As we unfold the hidden depths of our consciousness and open up to far reaching viewpoints, humanity gains its freedom. There is much more to learn, much more to discover and understand for men to conquer themselves and their SINFUL nature before they gain real FREEDOM. Just as God's mind is unfathomable, so are human potential limited only by their own lack of confidence and resistance to the TRUTH.

Yup, we gain FREEDOM from our self-made ideas that are contrary to the TRUTH. It is our sin that separates us from reality and the other facts of science that are still to be discovered. The social pressure of wrong ideas and false information is keeping this world from beneficial changes. Such social impositions retard our attitudes and make us cower in FEAR and WANT.

Men have declared the world flat. However, God did not make a flat Earth. Sinful Men used their own rules to empower themselves and persecute prophets and those who knew TRUTH. Leave God out of the problem. We do not know creation because we are not familiar with God and his ways. We fail to acknowledge TRUTH, which only God has power to change, suspend and alter for ever more.

Today's FALSE PROPHETS are the environmentalists. They already declared that the Earth has to be saved. But wasn't Earth a planet with or without humans inhabiting it? Instead of the false idea, are men not concerned of their own survival rather than the planet's?

Recently, the false prophet declared that there is GLOBAL WARMING, and humans are to blame. But in the past few weeks, icy conditions have prevailed from East to the West coast of the American continent, a major reversal in the prediction that melting ice would soon FLOOD the world. Now, the same amount of noise is quickly rephrasing the FEAR and telling the public that there is "natural" La Nina, which is making things cooler. Are men in control of things? The answer is NO. Just like in the olden days called dark ages, False Authorities are forcing their wrongful ideas on the foolish public, appointing themselves authority over many.

screwdriver2 · April 8, 2008

Bud, you're quite wrong.

Life is no game. It is a struggle to get over your ignorance and most of all, your silly prejudices. Human education is simply the ability to move forward by self-correcting attitude. As we unfold the hidden depths of our consciousness and open up to far reaching viewpoints, humanity gains its freedom. There is much more to learn, much more to discover and understand for men to conquer themselves and their SINFUL nature before they gain real FREEDOM. Just as God's mind is unfathomable, so are human potential limited only by their own lack of confidence and resistance to the TRUTH.

Yup, we gain FREEDOM from our self-made ideas that are contrary to the TRUTH. It is our sin that separates us from reality and the other facts of science that are still to be discovered. The social pressure of wrong ideas and false information is keeping this world from beneficial changes. Such social impositions retard our attitudes and make us cower in FEAR and WANT.

Men have declared the world flat. However, God did not make a flat Earth. Sinful Men used their own rules to empower themselves and persecute prophets and those who knew TRUTH. Leave God out of the problem. We do not know creation because we are not familiar with God and his ways. We fail to acknowledge TRUTH, which only God has power to change, suspend and alter for ever more.

Today's FALSE PROPHETS are the environmentalists. They already declared that the Earth has to be saved. But wasn't Earth a planet with or without humans inhabiting it? Instead of the false idea, are men not concerned of their own survival rather than the planet's?

Recently, the false prophet declared that there is GLOBAL WARMING, and humans are to blame. But in the past few weeks, icy conditions have prevailed from East to the West coast of the American continent, a major reversal in the prediction that melting ice would soon FLOOD the world. Now, the same amount of noise is quickly rephrasing the FEAR and telling the public that there is "natural" La Nina, which is making things cooler. Are men in control of things? The answer is NO. Just like in the olden days called dark ages, False Authorities are forcing their wrongful ideas on the foolish public, appointing themselves authority over many.

Hey, Buddy! Don't get me wrong! I'm on your side! I'm just trying to use "game" as a metaphor to prove my point.... And beside, Life is really lot like a game where everything has to obey rules. The gamemaster (God) said,"Obey all my commandments", which is exactly like saying, "Obey my game rules...or else you're out." Isn't it what is literally written in the Bible? To obey His rule?

For my viewpoint, science has been given to us as a way to reach some understanding as to the mechanics of things and of "What" He did. Maybe someday science could reach a point where one can answer the universal question: "Why?"

The bottom line is: Science CANNOT disprove that there is no Creator of all things.

One will spend a LIFETIME disproving that there is no God. All of us are dust in the wind, as Socrates said. But the theory that everything originated from one Source, that will last beyond millenia.

Meanwhile, while we, as scientists, try to unlock His secrets, why don't we spend some of our time obeying His rules: Be good, help those people who are in need, donate some of your old stuff to charities, volunteer to clean up the environment or go to church every Sunday and pray.

Isn't it safe to believe in science in parallel with a belief in God, than nothing to believe on?

Albert Einstein said, each has a different point of view when they see a single object as explained by his Theory of Relativity. Everything is relative! What does this mean? It means when one declared that he saw an airplane, another person will object that it isn't so. It's a flying saucer, he said.

Which one would you believe? Even you, as an observer, has a different point of view from the other two! You saw a flying duck! :rolleyes:

Even the things that you see is not what it seems to be. More than meets the eye. You can see light as it is. But close scrutiny revealed that it is made up of color spectrum. In a very windy day you could feel the touch of something cool, yet it is a product of an agitated warm and cool air trying to balance itself. How about gravitational waves? The universe is full of these waves like ripples in the ocean. When one of these waves hit the earth, our surroundings are being stretch like a rubber band, even us. We cannot feel it and yet it does. Why build 9 planets instead of 1? We cannot live in Mercury nor Venus, let alone Pluto?

Why all these?

Better ask God. Who are we to question Him? He knows what He's doing. :hypocritesmiley: