Build A Model Body!

[enkateam]

lets stop this debate because it will go nowhere fast!

[Olympus]

Here's my take on the matter. Those who usually do cardio in an empty stomach are bodybuilders who could afford to do so because they have freaky amounts of muscle that even losing some of it would not really make any difference in size. I don't think that it would be applied to the normal people because it's boring to do so. Peace.

 

Which is why the average person should never do what a bodybuilder or someone with elite genetics does since its setting you up for a disaster....

 

That is also another reason why you wont see models in the off-season since they blow up so that when they lean out, there is a confidence inteval left so that even if some muscle mass is lost, the remaining muscle mass would still be sufficient

[massmonster]

Which is why the average person should never do what a bodybuilder or someone with elite genetics does since its setting you up for a disaster....

 

That is also another reason why you wont see models in the off-season since they blow up so that when they lean out, there is a confidence inteval left so that even if some muscle mass is lost, the remaining muscle mass would still be sufficient

 

Hehe... that's why we never read rags because of all the misinfo contained If those contained the truth then majority of its readers would have become ala-Coleman huge already. I wonder how surprised people would be when they learn about what really happens...

[rockybrawler]

let me quote one of my favorite coahes and colleagues that I totally respect Alwyn Cosgrove on this statement

 

FASTED CARDIO

 

Are you f--king kidding me? Seriously, are you f--king kidding me? Why are we even talking about this?

 

Let's take two twins, both 200lbs, both doing the same training program, taking the same supplements, and following the same nutrition plan in the hopes of getting lean.

 

One difference, though: one of them eats 2 eggs and does 30 minutes of cardio three days per week. The other does 30 minutes of cardio, three days per week and THEN eats 2 eggs.

 

So what's the magical difference in terms of fat loss after six months? Drum roll please...

 

I'll tell you — no f-king difference.

 

However, whenever you bring up this question we get a ton of responses saying, "This is exactly the information I needed!". Oh f--k off. The reason you are still fat is because you couldn't decide to do cardio on an empty stomach or not?

 

30 minutes of steady state cardio will burn about 300 calories. Three times per week – 900 calories. Add that up for 26 weeks and we get a whopping: 23,400 calories.

 

Or 6.6 lbs of fat.

 

In six months.

 

If doing it fasted, burned 30% more (which it doesn't), you're looking at another 2lbs of fat in that same six month period.

 

Or an additional 0.07 pounds per week.

 

And for those of you who say – I do fasted cardio but I have a small scoop of protein first, then you're NOT DOING IT FASTED THEN, ARE YOU?

 

Fat people finish marathons all the time. Aerobic training doesn't do a hell of a lot for real world fat loss. Even if you're hungry

I agree :cool:

 

>>Sir,

I only requested for a simple reply. No 1 or No 2, your answer is too complicated, rude and uncouth. I really don't understand why you have to reply to my posts with bleeped out profanity. What's the point of using the F word anyway? You typed out the F word then you censor it still. I still don't see your point. Are you using the F word to emphasize your masculinity? Sorry dude, where I come from, we don't use the F word to convey a point. It just makes you look rude and uneducated.

 

If fat loss is the goal, then there are two things we want to achieve:

1. Higher metabolism

2. maintaining lean muscle mass

 

any method of strength training which helps you increase your VO2 max ( read: ability to use oxygen more effecienty) also increases your metabolism.

 

Further, we also know that the more muscle mass you have, the better your chances of fighting off the unwanted fat.

 

Now we all know that starving yourself fo a long tim onl slows down your metabolism, so basic fastin will not really help in burning fat... there is such a thing called intermittent fasting, but i do not know much about it.

So again, I do not think that working out on an empty stomach is a good idea....

 

 

>>Thank you Sir. Now this is what I would call a concise reply. See? You can post without using the F word. Feels better, doesn't it?

[Jacques]

>>Sir,

I only requested for a simple reply. No 1 or No 2, your answer is too complicated, rude and uncouth. I really don't understand why you have to reply to my posts with bleeped out profanity. What's the point of using the F word anyway? You typed out the F word then you censor it still. I still don't see your point. Are you using the F word to emphasize your masculinity? Sorry dude, where I come from, we don't use the F word to convey a point. It just makes you look rude and uneducated.

>>Thank you Sir. Now this is what I would call a concise reply. See? You can post without using the F word. Feels better, doesn't it?

 

Si Olympus kasi masyadong hot. Nevertheless, I'm sure he's a driven, dedicated and persistent athlete.

[Olympus]

Sir,

I only requested for a simple reply. No 1 or No 2, your answer is too complicated, rude and uncouth. I really don't understand why you have to reply to my posts with bleeped out profanity. What's the point of using the F word anyway? You typed out the F word then you censor it still. I still don't see your point. Are you using the F word to emphasize your masculinity? Sorry dude, where I come from, we don't use the F word to convey a point. It just makes you look rude and uneducated.

 

If you read closely that was a quoted reply from one of the coaches I respect. About me being rantign and irate, if yo have been in this industry for some time and see how much lies are proliferating, I wouldn't be surprised if you became irate too...

[rockybrawler]

If you read closely that was a quoted reply from one of the coaches I respect. About me being rantign and irate, if yo have been in this industry for some time and see how much lies are proliferating, I wouldn't be surprised if you became irate too...

 

I DID read closely and I know it's a quote BUT IT IS STILL YOUR POST. You don't have to quote using the f word.

 

We are here hoping to exchange information and make new friends. Mocking people with "mumbo jumbo" remarks won't win you any congeniality awards.

 

Anyway, you have to relax, ranting and being irate won't make the lies go away. I back read your posts and I notice your posts are very scientifically sound and practical, in other words, you give good advice but you should learn to respect other members here. Just because you don't agree with my post doesn't mean I wrong.

 

 

 

Cooler heads will always prevail Sir.

[Olympus]

I DID read closely and I know it's a quote BUT IT IS STILL YOUR POST. You don't have to quote using the f word.

 

We are here hoping to exchange information and make new friends. Mocking people with "mumbo jumbo" remarks won't win you any congeniality awards.

 

Anyway, you have to relax, ranting and being irate won't make the lies go away. I back read your posts and I notice your posts are very scientifically sound and practical, in other words, you give good advice but you should learn to respect other members here. Just because you don't agree with my post doesn't mean I wrong.

Cooler heads will always prevail Sir.

 

 

I'm not here to win any congeniality awards... I'm here to educate people.

[Jacques]

After back reading the initial postings in this thread I'm so amused to see people sharing their programs. I can't help keep this to myself and decided it would be great to brag about what I've been through lately. Let me share with you my last leg workout.

 

Squats. (I've been doing squats for almost 6 years already but lately Olympus our friend suggested that I try it without the shoes on. I must say, I'm starting to like this approach since I feel more stable and gripped with the ground. However, I don't totally go barefoot. I leave my socks on and a mat below may feety.)

warm up set - 20 controlled reps (bar only)

1st set 2x10kg plates 15 reps

2nd set 2x20kg plates 12 reps

3rd set 2x20kg and 2x10kg plates 10 reps

4th set 4x20kg plates 6 reps

5th set 4x20kg plates and 2x10kg plates 2 reps. Immediately after this we drop the weight leaving 2x20kg plates and went for 10 reps, drop to 2x10kg plates for another 10 reps and finally the bar only for 15 reps.

 

Smith Machine Front squats

1st set 2x10kg plates for 15 reps

2nd, 3rd and 4th set 4x10kg plates 10 to 15 reps.

 

Walking lounges with dumbells roughly 70 yards distance

1st set - 2x15 lbs

2nd set - 2x20 lbs

3rd set - 2x25 lbs

 

Leg Extensions

2 sets to failure

 

I felt like puking after this workout. :sick:

[Olympus]

After back reading the initial postings in this thread I'm so amused to see people sharing their programs. I can't help keep this to myself and decided it would be great to brag about what I've been through lately. Let me share with you my last leg workout.

 

Squats. (I've been doing squats for almost 6 years already but lately Olympus our friend suggested that I try it without the shoes on. I must say, I'm starting to like this approach since I feel more stable and gripped with the ground. However, I don't totally go barefoot. I leave my socks on and a mat below may feety.)

warm up set - 20 controlled reps (bar only)

1st set 2x10kg plates 15 reps

2nd set 2x20kg plates 12 reps

3rd set 2x20kg and 2x10kg plates 10 reps

4th set 4x20kg plates 6 reps

5th set 4x20kg plates and 2x10kg plates 2 reps. Immediately after this we drop the weight leaving 2x20kg plates and went for 10 reps, drop to 2x10kg plates for another 10 reps and finally the bar only for 15 reps.

 

Smith Machine Front squats

1st set 2x10kg plates for 15 reps

2nd, 3rd and 4th set 4x10kg plates 10 to 15 reps.

 

Walking lounges with dumbells roughly 70 yards distance

1st set - 2x15 lbs

2nd set - 2x20 lbs

3rd set - 2x25 lbs

 

Leg Extensions

2 sets to failure

 

I felt like puking after this workout. :sick:

 

 

I assume you work out in FF or slimmers?

 

With all that machine work, I already get dizzy...

[rockybrawler]

I'm not here to win any congeniality awards... I'm here to educate people.

 

You still don't understand my point sir. Anyway, you can always educate people IN A NICE WAY. You don't have to do so in a rude and condescending manner. Let's leave it at this, Sir.

 

Just for the record, all those who replied to my question made perfect sense. Thank you guys.

[rockybrawler]

Both statements are actually true. For one, you must understand the our body needs fuel to "burn" whenever we engage in activities such as cardio-vascular excercises. When doing cardio on an empty stomach (usually early morning), the body mainly will rely on stored fuels such as bodyfat and sometimes even stored amino acids in our muscles. In a thread somewhere, I have mentioned that it is inevitable to sacrifice a bit of musclemass while on calorie restricted diets. That's why one strategy we employ is to up our protein intake while dieting to ensure that we replace the aminos being burned in our muscles.

 

Here's what you do. Guage yourself. If you're naturally lean I'd say forego cardio because it'll hinder your progress. But if you really have the goal of leaning out, by all means do cardio on an empty stomach and drink a protein/amino supplement immediately afterwards. The trick here is to actually limit carb intake to promote body fat as fuel. But witht the assumption that the body would have the tendency to "cannibalize" your own muscle for energy, just ensure you're taking more protein to compensate for this. This is why I tend to consume more protein while dieting as compared to the off season training.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Thank you for your reply Sir. My goal is to lower body fat percentage. I have a tendency to bloat out if I don't exercise.

So far, my arms, legs, upper body are firm (i lift 3x a week, just ordinary compound exercises sir, nothing hardcore). My only problem area is the lower abs below the navel. Just started stationary biking for cardio which is why I asked re the empty stomach/after meal question. It is really confusing since the conflicting articles I read were from respected magazines.

[Olympus]

Thank you for your reply Sir. My goal is to lower body fat percentage. I have a tendency to bloat out if I don't exercise.

So far, my arms, legs, upper body are firm (i lift 3x a week, just ordinary compound exercises sir, nothing hardcore). My only problem area is the lower abs below the navel. Just started stationary biking for cardio which is why I asked re the empty stomach/after meal question. It is really confusing since the conflicting articles I read were from respected magazines.

 

Let me say this and make it clear... the magazines you read are misleading you since most of these magazines proliferate lies and their sole existence is due to the supplement ads....

 

Most of the articles are really ads...

 

Now about yoru question, steady cardio will burn calories but it won't rev up your metabolism, you need to o intervals to rev up your metabolism and the lower ab area cannot be isolated... unfortunately for men, this is where most fat is stored

[rockybrawler]

Let me say this and make it clear... the magazines you read are misleading you since most of these magazines proliferate lies and their sole existence is due to the supplement ads....

 

Most of the articles are really ads...

 

Now about yoru question, steady cardio will burn calories but it won't rev up your metabolism, you need to o intervals to rev up your metabolism and the lower ab area cannot be isolated... unfortunately for men, this is where most fat is stored

 

Thank you sir. This really helped.

[Olympus]

Thank you sir. This really helped.

 

Stop calling me sir... Save that for the classroom teachers and soldiers

[Dan.]

Let me say this and make it clear... the magazines you read are misleading you since most of these magazines proliferate lies and their sole existence is due to the supplement ads....

 

Most of the articles are really ads...

 

Now about yoru question, steady cardio will burn calories but it won't rev up your metabolism, you need to o intervals to rev up your metabolism and the lower ab area cannot be isolated... unfortunately for men, this is where most fat is stored

 

I agree. I also read in Mens' Fitness & Mens' Health that you should not do cardio or any exercise on an empty stomach. How many minutes do you recommend for interval training, Mr Olympus?

[Olympus]

I agree. I also read in Mens' Fitness & Mens' Health that you should not do cardio or any exercise on an empty stomach. How many minutes do you recommend for interval training, Mr Olympus?

 

It depends on your fitness level... the more fir you are, the shorter yet more intense you can make your intervals

[BEaST-RiPPed]

Stop calling me sir... Save that for the classroom teachers and soldiers

 

hahaha! reminds me of a former school principal who is also a doctor and a retired colonel in the AFP, he said "stop calling me sir, its eaither you call me doctor or colonel!" kya pare, col him coach nlng even though he isn't ur trainer or if ur not doing ur strength training in eclipse gym... or might as well call him "master oly"

 

I agree. I also read in Mens' Fitness & Mens' Health that you should not do cardio or any exercise on an empty stomach.

 

i agree with oly about the so called respected mags being juz ads to those work out supplements...

you may not all agree with me on this but i never consult reading materials like mags when i want to do a work out and diet regimen,

i always ask the HC or oly himself or coach nilo about it

mas maganda ksi itanong mo dun sa mga nakasubok na e kesa dun sa binabasa mo na hindi mo sure kung ginagawa din nila o sinasabi lng nila para may maiprint lng... how aobut dropping a visit to eclipse and ask the coaches there wat u hev in mind... :thumbsupsmiley:

[THUG]

Again, it is pointless to use a marathon runner as a basis of comparison since we all know that ( no pun intended) marathon runners aren't exactly aesthetically pleasing

 

 

again.. you are looking at elite marathon runners, talaga namang payatot at underweight yang mga yan, genetically underweight and thin sila.. no matter how much they eat, what they eat, they stay slim.. its because their bodies are good fat burning machines..

 

i run marathons pero i still border near the overweight limit.. perhaps its because i also lift weights and i'm not an elite marathoner, i'm one of those middle of the pack runners..

 

running is the best way of burning fat, and marathon training is the best way of training your body to utilize fat as fuel..

 

kaya andaming mga gym ng gym..kahit ano gawin mataba pa din..laki pa din tyan..pano kulang sa cardio.. kain ng kain.. di sanay ang katawan sumunog ng taba... pag na exhaust na yung carbo sa pagkain nila, kain uli! so nasan yung nasunog mong taba? wala..

 

kaya nga it takes training.. workout muna..saka na yung kain!

 

do animals and primitive humans hunt, chase animals, fish, swim, run, when they have just eaten? no.. they throw spears, throw rocks, climb rocks, swim, when they are hungry, to hunt..

 

 

kaya workout muna..bago kain.. hunt then eat your prey after the hunt.. like how animals do it..

[massmonster]

again.. you are looking at elite marathon runners, talaga namang payatot at underweight yang mga yan, genetically underweight and thin sila.. no matter how much they eat, what they eat, they stay slim.. its because their bodies are good fat burning machines..

 

i run marathons pero i still border near the overweight limit.. perhaps its because i also lift weights and i'm not an elite marathoner, i'm one of those middle of the pack runners..

 

running is the best way of burning fat, and marathon training is the best way of training your body to utilize fat as fuel..

 

kaya andaming mga gym ng gym..kahit ano gawin mataba pa din..laki pa din tyan..pano kulang sa cardio.. kain ng kain.. di sanay ang katawan sumunog ng taba... pag na exhaust na yung carbo sa pagkain nila, kain uli! so nasan yung nasunog mong taba? wala..

 

kaya nga it takes training.. workout muna..saka na yung kain!

 

do animals and primitive humans hunt, chase animals, fish, swim, run, when they have just eaten? no.. they throw spears, throw rocks, climb rocks, swim, when they are hungry, to hunt..

kaya workout muna..bago kain.. hunt then eat your prey after the hunt.. like how animals do it..

 

Elite marathon runners' bodies are good fat burning machines? With all of the muscle mass that they burn doing excessive cardio, I don't think that they could be labeled such. I suppose that just one week of not running would make them bloated. I've nothing against them but I guess the best way to describe their physiques is skinny fat -> thin yet having high bodyfat %

 

On the issue of those working out in the gym, they're simply consuming way too much calories than they can burn, making them fat. Again, it's an issue of diet. I know a lot of people (including me) who become fat in the off-season but become ripped when summer is near because we fix our diet and training. Cardio is non-existent. Mind you, we are not genetically gifted, we just know how to do things properly.

 

Workout before eating? If you don't eat enough, there won't be enough energy for you to train properly. Plus the fact that you're putting yourself in a catabolic state makes it much worst. Peace.

[THUG]

Workout before eating? If you don't eat enough, there won't be enough energy for you to train properly. Plus the fact that you're putting yourself in a catabolic state makes it much worst. Peace.

 

 

 

you don't have energy because you have not trained your body to use fat as energy.. your body is used to eating that when your stomach is empty something triggers in your brain to eat again before you can proceed..

 

you should feel hungry when you are losing fat, that is normal..

 

 

catabolic state only happens long term.. not when the time you lift weights on an empty stomach.. losing muscle while lifting weights or doing cardio? that's the most ridiculous thing i ever heard..

 

 

if that's the case then animals should have lost muscle when they chase their prey on an empty stomach..

[Olympus]

you don't have energy because you have not trained your body to use fat as energy.. your body is used to eating that when your stomach is empty something triggers in your brain to eat again before you can proceed..

 

you should feel hungry when you are losing fat, that is normal..

catabolic state only happens long term.. not when the time you lift weights on an empty stomach.. losing muscle while lifting weights or doing cardio? that's the most ridiculous thing i ever heard..

if that's the case then animals should have lost muscle when they chase their prey on an empty stomach..

 

Here you go again making all these baseless statements without backing them up... You are trying to impose your will rather than further improve the discussion here...

 

Now, to answer your post...

 

You don' train our body to use fat as fuel, it is the natural instinct of your body, however, when you are in a prlonged state of hunger, your body burns no only fatbut musle mass as well.....

 

If you are training right and raising your metabolism, you have no interest in food whatsoever....

 

Again, animals such as carnivores are already in a catabolic state when they are hunting, however they slow their metabolsims down when they are digesting it that is why they sleep a lot...

 

And animals hunt their food since that is their nature, we already have food readily accessible

 

 

the reason people are fatter nowadays is because of lifestyle, too much preservatives and less activity....

 

 

You of all people should perhaps lok back at your poss last year and we already showed that you aren' wilin t put things on the line so if you just wanna be a tool here, better just kee quiet and stop disturbing the already productive discussions we hav had here when you were gone

[RealEstateMan]

i have been training to have lean mean body for the past year. Tried running and I lasted 5 rounds which is really a puny for me because I used to run 1K before when I was an amateur triathlete.

[Olympus]

i have been training to have lean mean body for the past year. Tried running and I lasted 5 rounds which is really a puny for me because I used to run 1K before when I was an amateur triathlete.

 

How is your progress so far?

[RealEstateMan]

As long as I have free time. I try to run or perfect my swimming form. So far my running skills have faired well. I am planning to sign up for another Triathlon Association of the Philippines (TRAP) event on April 15, 2007 at Lakeshore, Pampanga. This will be my second time. My first time was way back in Nov. 2005. I never got to be on top of the skill of the pros but I manage to finish it anyway. This has become a challenge for me.