PacMan's Corner

[Za09]

To understand why PACMAN WON:

 

Pacquiao = 578 punches connecting 176

Marquez= 436 punches connecting 138

 

After round 12, Marquez praised himself while Pacquiao prayed.

SEE THE DIFFERENCE???

 

RULES IN BOXING:

1. In a 10-point system, the boxer­ who wins a round is given 10 points, and the other­ boxer gets nine points. (10 -9).

2. If there was a­ knockdown in the round (10-8)

3. 2 knock downs (10-7)

4. If a­ judge CAN'T decide who won the round, it is scored­ 10-10.

5. Now if u are the CHALLENGER, you must be the­ AGGRESOR.

For example if Pacquiao would­ just STAY STILL and Marquez DOES NOT attack, Pacquiao­ gets the 10 and Marquez 9. In this case -----Manny(champion)­ was always aggressive while Marquez (challenger) waits­ for an attack and counters.

6. Marquez's BODY LANGUAGE FOOLED a lot of people. Making people feel that he was­ the winner or at least it was a draw. It may look like­ he was landing more punches but the tricky part here is­ he was on the defensive, luring pacquiao into his­ tactical traps. (REMEMBER: The CHALLENGER MUST BE AGGRESSIVE to be

 

awarde 10).

7. So even if­ Marquez did connect more punches he gets only 9 for­ being DEFENSIVE and manny gets the 10 for being the­ attacker.

 

PACQUIAO GOT MORE "10" THAN MARQUEZ. Congratulations Manny Pacquiao!!!

 

Marquez cheating by stepping at Manny's foot...

Edited November 14, 2011 by Za09

[photographer]

 

Advice for Pacquiao: You can't be a part-time boxer

 

 

 

MANILA, Philippines - Manny Pacquiao, boxing's reigning pound-for-pound, has a weakness and it is this: he has too many masters.

 

Veteran analysts Ronnie Nathanielsz and Ed Tolentino said as much as they both agreed that the Pambansang Kamao lost his third fight against Juan Manuel Marquez despite a majority win in the judges' score cards.

 

According to Tolentino, Pacquiao's boxing skills have been deteriorating since defeating Miguel Cotto in 2009. This was made apparent in Sunday's bout where Pacquiao appeared frustrated in trying to break down the Mexican challenger's offense.

 

"The more telling, accurate, stronger punches came from Marquez. So many times Pacquiao threw his left and missed completely. His strength and speed were gone. He has gone down," Tolentino told ABS-CBN's Umagang Kay Ganda.

 

Nathanielsz, meanwhile, said the Pacquiao camp failed to adjust accordingly when Marquez showed that he was comfortable with his additional weight.

 

He said Marquez's coach, Nacho Beristain, gave the Mexican specific instructions every round on what he will do. On the other hand, he said Pacquiao's coach, Freddie Roach, only told the Pinoy by Round 7 that he was falling behind.

 

Pacquiao lost 'eye of the tiger'

 

Tolentino said Pacquiao's lackluster performance seemed to show that Manny was not very focused on the fight.

 

"Sa bawat boxing fight, the preparation is not just physical. The mental focus must be there. During the fight, parang nag di-drift yung mind ni Pacquiao as if in a trance. Sabi ko nga, hindi ko nakita yung fluidity sa kanyang mga combinations," he said.

 

He said the controversial win also showed that Pacquiao has too many things on his plate, which could be taking a toll on his skills.

 

"You can't be a part-time boxer. He has to fix his priorities because in boxing, your opponent is out to k*ll you. You can't be a fly-by-night boxer and a congressman full-time," he said in Filipino.

 

"You cannot serve two masters at the same time. In the case of Manny Pacquiao, multiply the masters by 10...He might have slipped through in his previous fights but eventually these distractions take their toll on you. So he has to clean house and put it in order and then hopefully what we saw is just an off day and not a permanent slide," he said.

 

"He has to get back the eye of the tiger," he added.

 

Trouble in Pacquiao camp?

 

Meantime, Nathanielsz said Freddie Roach and Pacquiao's strength and conditioning coach Alex Ariza must answer for why Pacquiao keeps having leg cramps during fights.

 

He also finds troubling reports that Pacquiao had a run-in with Ariza, which allegedly saw the boxing champ throw a cellphone at Ariza and breaking a glass.

 

"Ariza admitted that they quarrelled. Sinabi niya no big deal. But if you throw your mobile phone and break a glass, that is a big deal," Nathanielsz said.

 

He added that Ariza gave a very strict regimen that meant Pacquiao had to rest by 9:30 p.m. after a day of training. Unfortunately, he said Pacquiao sometimes had to go from Baguio to Manila just to do his weekly game show and then sleep in the vehicle on the drive back.

 

"He has a show on Saturdays. In the midst of training, he drives down from Baguio to tape that show and then drives back. That's a long, hard drive up and down Baguio and even if he is sleeping in the car, it's bumpy even if he has the fanciest cars in the world. It's not good for his physical make-up," he said.

 

"Ariza told me that after a hard day's training, (Pacquiao) goes out and that's the worst thing to do. He's got to straighten these things out," he added.

 

Don't be Navarette

 

The veteran analyst said Pacquiao has to get rid of some of his hangers-on if he hopes to regain his A-game.

 

"First of all, he has to remove the 60 people who sleep with him at Palazzo. 60 people? How can a world champion have 60 people playing darts, drinking and doing all sorts of things at night while he is preparing for a fight? Alisin mo muna yang mga alipores na yan," he said.

 

He said that if Pacquiao feels lonely, he should bring his family with him to relax. "Family is the best antidote to loneliness," he said.

 

Nathanielsz said marital problems could also take a toll on Pacquiao especially after he was linked to different women.

 

"Don't let these stories come out. Hindi maganda yan eh. You're a world champion, pound for pound king, congressman, aspiring presidential candidate. Kailangan ayusin mo muna lahat," he said.

 

He added: "It puts pressure on him and it puts pressure on his wife. It's not good for their relationship."

 

Nathanielsz said he has a special fondness for Pacquiao since he used to feature the boxer in his TV show when Pacquiao was just starting his career when he was 16. He described Pacquiao as a very humble person and a great fighter.

 

He said Pacquiao need only look at former boxing champ and fellow General Santos native Rolando Navarette as a cautionary tale about yielding to temptation of gambling and women and failing to put his affairs in order.

 

"He has too many distractions. Boxing is a full-time job, He's a congressman also so that takes up a lot of his time. Fair enough because he has other aspirations. But stop the pool playing late at nights, stop the cards and all of these things, get rid of that..."

 

"Somebody has to sit him down and say 'You cannot go on this way.' And he's got to listen," he added.

 

 

[Guest nick fury]

To understand why PACMAN WON:

 

Pacquiao = 578 punches connecting 176

Marquez= 436 punches connecting 138

 

After round 12, Marquez praised himself while Pacquiao prayed.

SEE THE DIFFERENCE???

 

RULES IN BOXING:

1. In a 10-point system, the boxer­ who wins a round is given 10 points, and the other­ boxer gets nine points. (10 -9).

2. If there was a­ knockdown in the round (10-8)

3. 2 knock downs (10-7)

4. If a­ judge CAN'T decide who won the round, it is scored­ 10-10.

5. Now if u are the CHALLENGER, you must be the­ AGGRESOR.

For example if Pacquiao would­ just STAY STILL and Marquez DOES NOT attack, Pacquiao­ gets the 10 and Marquez 9. In this case -----Manny(champion)­ was always aggressive while Marquez (challenger) waits­ for an attack and counters.

6. Marquez's BODY LANGUAGE FOOLED a lot of people. Making people feel that he was­ the winner or at least it was a draw. It may look like­ he was landing more punches but the tricky part here is­ he was on the defensive, luring pacquiao into his­ tactical traps. (REMEMBER: The CHALLENGER MUST BE AGGRESSIVE to be

 

awarde 10).

7. So even if­ Marquez did connect more punches he gets only 9 for­ being DEFENSIVE and manny gets the 10 for being the­ attacker.

 

PACQUIAO GOT MORE "10" THAN MARQUEZ. Congratulations Manny Pacquiao!!!

 

Marquez cheating by stepping at Manny's foot...

I saw this on facebook earlier. I thought that Marquez won but when I read this, I understood why the judges made Manny win. Now. even if there was a Pacquiao-Marquez 4, the result will still be the same if Marquez uses the same style. Even Freddie Roach thinks that the result will still be a close decision for Pacquiao in Quinito Henson's news item in the Philippine Star today.

Edited November 14, 2011 by nick fury

[wendy testicleger]

Marquez cheating by stepping at Manny's foot...

Cheater! Cheater!

 

Check his urine, baka may PED. I mean check nila ang urine na iniinom niya.

 

 

[uaeboy25]

To understand why PACMAN WON:

 

Pacquiao = 578 punches connecting 176

Marquez= 436 punches connecting 138

 

After round 12, Marquez praised himself while Pacquiao prayed.

SEE THE DIFFERENCE???

 

RULES IN BOXING:

1. In a 10-point system, the boxer­ who wins a round is given 10 points, and the other­ boxer gets nine points. (10 -9).

2. If there was a­ knockdown in the round (10-8)

3. 2 knock downs (10-7)

4. If a­ judge CAN'T decide who won the round, it is scored­ 10-10.

5. Now if u are the CHALLENGER, you must be the­ AGGRESOR.

For example if Pacquiao would­ just STAY STILL and Marquez DOES NOT attack, Pacquiao­ gets the 10 and Marquez 9. In this case -----Manny(champion)­ was always aggressive while Marquez (challenger) waits­ for an attack and counters.

6. Marquez's BODY LANGUAGE FOOLED a lot of people. Making people feel that he was­ the winner or at least it was a draw. It may look like­ he was landing more punches but the tricky part here is­ he was on the defensive, luring pacquiao into his­ tactical traps. (REMEMBER: The CHALLENGER MUST BE AGGRESSIVE to be

 

awarde 10).

7. So even if­ Marquez did connect more punches he gets only 9 for­ being DEFENSIVE and manny gets the 10 for being the­ attacker.

 

PACQUIAO GOT MORE "10" THAN MARQUEZ. Congratulations Manny Pacquiao!!!

 

Marquez cheating by stepping at Manny's foot...

 

 

its very clear that marquez who cried that he was cheated, really speaking to himself. what a sore looser

[uaeboy25]

oh come on!!! stop comparing the fastest mouth in the planet againts Pacquiao

[StraightEdge]

I Think mas controversial talaga tong kay pacman.

[perverto]

Ahaaa! Foot stepping ka pala ah...Huli ka balbonnnnn!

[airport-noo]

There is such a thing as winning the fight but losing the event. I think our guy lost the event. The consequence of almost losing to the smaller and older Marquez is that Manny's standing as P4P #1 will no longer be as solid as it used to be. The aura that held the boxing world in awe has faded in his last 2 fights. Remember, Marquez didn't win a single round against Mayweather. Sure Mayweather cheated Marquez in the scales, and that being #1 matters very little to Manny. But the Superfight loses some of its luster because of this.

[wendy testicleger]

and gayweather did not KO Hatton until the 10th round and only won via split decision against the Golden Boy.

 

Marquez's stock rising after this bout? Puro angal ang ginagawa. Maliwanag naman na talo siya dito sa third fight. May kasamang foot stomping pa iyan.

[LYCHEE]

controversial or not, convincing or not...what matters is manny won it for his countrymen and for all his loyal boxing fans. for that we remain proud and happy.

Edited November 15, 2011 by LYCHEE

[SoundWave]

commercial break!

http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh274/icebreaker1928/mp-jmm50.jpg

[BrightestStar]

Manny is still the best even if it was not a knockout!

[BrightestStar]

and gayweather did not KO Hatton until the 10th round and only won via split decision against the Golden Boy.

 

Marquez's stock rising after this bout? Puro angal ang ginagawa. Maliwanag naman na talo siya dito sa third fight. May kasamang foot stomping pa iyan.

 

 

Correct. In fact, If Marquez tried to be aggressive, I'm sure he would have been knocked out by Manny.

[BrightestStar]

To understand why PACMAN WON:

 

Pacquiao = 578 punches connecting 176

Marquez= 436 punches connecting 138

 

After round 12, Marquez praised himself while Pacquiao prayed.

SEE THE DIFFERENCE???

 

RULES IN BOXING:

1. In a 10-point system, the boxer­ who wins a round is given 10 points, and the other­ boxer gets nine points. (10 -9).

2. If there was a­ knockdown in the round (10-8)

3. 2 knock downs (10-7)

4. If a­ judge CAN'T decide who won the round, it is scored­ 10-10.

5. Now if u are the CHALLENGER, you must be the­ AGGRESOR.

For example if Pacquiao would­ just STAY STILL and Marquez DOES NOT attack, Pacquiao­ gets the 10 and Marquez 9. In this case -----Manny(champion)­ was always aggressive while Marquez (challenger) waits­ for an attack and counters.

6. Marquez's BODY LANGUAGE FOOLED a lot of people. Making people feel that he was­ the winner or at least it was a draw. It may look like­ he was landing more punches but the tricky part here is­ he was on the defensive, luring pacquiao into his­ tactical traps. (REMEMBER: The CHALLENGER MUST BE AGGRESSIVE to be

 

awarde 10).

7. So even if­ Marquez did connect more punches he gets only 9 for­ being DEFENSIVE and manny gets the 10 for being the­ attacker.

 

PACQUIAO GOT MORE "10" THAN MARQUEZ. Congratulations Manny Pacquiao!!!

 

Marquez cheating by stepping at Manny's foot...

 

 

That's a complete assessment Master Za09. IN the that particular fight, there was no way the challenger counter-puncher Marquez could win based on the #5 rule. Can we proclaim a defensive fighter a winner? No way!!!

[SaintPeter5858]

No matter how controversial from the point of view of some pundits, it will always be remembered in history as a fight won by the aggressive champion fighter. congrats to our National Fist!

[cool_kojie]

controversial or not, convincing or not...what matters is manny won it for his countrymen and for all his loyal boxing fans. for that we remain proud and happy.

 

Amen! What if the decision went to JMM favor. Di nagluluksa tayo lahat? Anyway Pacman is just Human and our country's pride rides on his shoulder everytime he goes for a fight. Nagka roon ng rebirth ng love for the country because of him. We wear our country's color and symbol proud today. A wins a win. Too much lang talaga expectation natin kay pacman. I do not understand the scoring system sa boxing but parang basketball din yan you need to put points on the board. Di porke marami kang fans panalo ka na. I too got scared na after the contest na JMM would be announced the winner the possibility crossed my mind because the fight was so close, Pinanuuod ko nga ulit replay e.

 

JMM has nothing going for him, wala naman bomoto sa kanya sa tatlong judges so wala dapat problema. The crowd nga lang got into it syempre. That the last mexican standing. But props to JMM, magaling din and a very smart fighter. He knows hes strength and he utilized it yung nga lang its not enough to make him win

 

Congrats to Manny! You can see his faith in god kasi nga after the fight he goes down on his corner and pray while JMM praised himself. That alone says a lot about manny as a person.

[wendy testicleger]

Correct. In fact, If Marquez tried to be aggressive, I'm sure he would have been knocked out by Manny.

and if gayweather and marquez the whining boy mixed it up in their only fight, hindi naman siguro mapapanalunan ni gayweather ang lahat ng rounds.

[kenichi15]

To understand why PACMAN WON:

 

Pacquiao = 578 punches connecting 176

Marquez= 436 punches connecting 138

 

After round 12, Marquez praised himself while Pacquiao prayed.

SEE THE DIFFERENCE???

 

RULES IN BOXING:

1. In a 10-point system, the boxer­ who wins a round is given 10 points, and the other­ boxer gets nine points. (10 -9).

2. If there was a­ knockdown in the round (10-8)

3. 2 knock downs (10-7)

4. If a­ judge CAN'T decide who won the round, it is scored­ 10-10.

5. Now if u are the CHALLENGER, you must be the­ AGGRESOR.

For example if Pacquiao would­ just STAY STILL and Marquez DOES NOT attack, Pacquiao­ gets the 10 and Marquez 9. In this case -----Manny(champion)­ was always aggressive while Marquez (challenger) waits­ for an attack and counters.

6. Marquez's BODY LANGUAGE FOOLED a lot of people. Making people feel that he was­ the winner or at least it was a draw. It may look like­ he was landing more punches but the tricky part here is­ he was on the defensive, luring pacquiao into his­ tactical traps. (REMEMBER: The CHALLENGER MUST BE AGGRESSIVE to be

 

awarde 10).

7. So even if­ Marquez did connect more punches he gets only 9 for­ being DEFENSIVE and manny gets the 10 for being the­ attacker.

 

PACQUIAO GOT MORE "10" THAN MARQUEZ. Congratulations Manny Pacquiao!!!

 

Marquez cheating by stepping at Manny's foot...

 

this has got to be the most misleading post ive read on this thread.

pls take the time to read about the ten point must system.

 

http://boxrec.com/media/index.php/Ten-point_must_system

 

A system of scoring whereby the winner of a round must receive ten points, and the loser of the round nine points (eights points, if knocked down; seven points, if knocked down more than once and thoroughly dominated by his opponent). If there is no clear winner, each boxer must be awarded ten points. Note, however, although a boxer may win the round, he can lose a point by committing a foul, in which case the round likely would be scored nine points for each boxer.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/10-point_must_system

 

the 10-point must system is a method of scoring a fighting match (e.g., boxing or mixed martial arts (MMA)).

 

Under the system, the judges must give the winner of a round 10 points, and the loser 9 points or fewer. A knock down usually results in a score of eight (8) for the boxer who was knocked down, and ten (10) for his or her opponent (provided, of course, the knocked-down boxer gets up before the end of the count and finishes it). A judge may occasionally award a 10 - 8 score if the round's winner is obviously dominating the other fighter. If the fight progresses through all scheduled rounds, the sum of the scores for each round are tallied for each judge to determine the winner of the match. If unable to continue the fight before that number of rounds has been fought, the fight is ruled a "no contest." If a fighter loses points by committing fouls, or a round is judged as without a clear winner, this may result in awarding an equal number of points to each fighter, so even with an odd number of rounds and an odd number of judges, draws are possible. Each foul usually costs one point, and is determined by the referee.

 

http://www.proboxing-fans.com/boxing-101/scoring-and-judging/

 

Professional Scoring

In order to account for things like how hard a punch is or the use of clever strategims, professional boxing uses a more subjective scoring system. The trio of judges at ringside are supposed to evaluate each round on the basis of four categories:

 

Clean Punching: This is not as simple as the amateur scoring system. First, not all three judges need to agree a punch has even landed, as each can make his or her own assessment as to what was seen. Second, clean punching could be as much about how damaging blows were, as about how many were landed. A fighter who lands three hard hooks to the body could win this category over a fighter who scored ten slapping jabs to the face, or visa versa.

Effective Aggression: The simplest way to describe this category is to say that a fighter who is both going forward and landing punches is effectively aggressive. Simply going forward all night might be aggressive, but it is not effective unless it leads to putting hurt on the other guy.

Defense: The sweet science is about hitting the other guy without getting hit. Blocking, slipping, bobbing and moving to make the other guy miss is an important element of the game, although often ignored by judges and casual fans alike.

Ring Generalship: The heart of ring generalship is who is in control of the action in a given round. If a fighter's forward momentum is forcing the pace, then that fighter is in control. Likewise, if a fighter's defense is defusing the pace, then the defensive fighter is in control.

These four categories are subjective by nature, but complicating matters still further is that they are also not equal, and exactly what each category means is open to interpretation.

 

Let's say in a fight a counter-puncher uses movement to stymie his swarming opponent, making him miss and landing single, hard blows with regularity. However, the swarmer keeps coming forward and lands more leather. The counter-puncher never achieved a knockdown, but hurt the other guy a few times. The swarmer's shots never hurt the counter-puncher, but they did leave his face red and puffy. Who won this fight

 

It depends very much on what the individual judges like to see, and how much they like to see it. Never forget that Willie Pep, the greatest defensive wizard of all time, once won a boxing round without throwing a single punch. A feat like that should be impossible, but not for Pep and the judges he had on that particular night.

 

The sole exception to this subjectivity is what happens when a knockdown transpires. Unless both fighters were knocked down, the boxer who suffered the knockdown almost always loses the round regardless of whatever else might have happened in that round.

 

nowhere did the rules say that "the challenger must be aggressive in order to be awarded 10"

where did that rule come from? none!

why is there no such rule? its simple. because the rules wouldnt teach you how to win. boxers box. judges score.

lets say if thats the rule then walang kwenta ang boxing kasi itinuro na sa iyo ng rule kung ano gagawin mo para manalo ka. boxing isnt like that. boxing is a game of wits. utakan yan. kaya nga may mangilang stance yan. you out wit your opponent. its a game of strategy. lets say thats the rule then marquez or any challenger in any title fight should just charge forward come hell or high water and being aggressive for 12 rounds automatically gets a 10? magiging boring ang boxing. suguran ng suguran e alam mo na kung sino mananalo. walang magtatagal na champion dahil pag sinusugod ng sinusugod ng challenger ay kanya ang 10 points. ano silbi ng champion? wala bang puntos ang depensya niya?

look i aint a marquez fan. but i just want to correct the misinterpretation of the 10 point must system rule. its misleading and teaching everyone the wrong fact.

manny already won. no matter how badly people look at it. no matter how the fans defend him. manny won because thats what the two judges saw and scored. dont taint it.

[cool_kojie]

Anong nakakahiya dun? hindi naman nandaya si Pacquiao???

 

mas nakakahiya ung padaraya ni gayweather, pero ang mga kano proud pa rin sa kanya, maybe lots of pinoys are naturally born crab

 

enough with this antics and lets cheers manny with this event, kung napatumba ni jmm si pacquiao ok. he is the winner kahit pa natalo sa score cards.

 

Oo nga anong kinalaman ni Pacman don e lumaban lang sya fair and square? Parehas sila ni JMM. Kaso nga lang the judges favored the champion. I dont really get why this win bothered some people. Would they want na Talo si Pacman? I dread to see that day. Parang Namatayan tayo non.

[wendy testicleger]

Pacquiao beat Marquez at his own game.

[ca5an0va]

MP did not beat JMM and JMM did not beat MP...should have been a DRAW instead and not unanimous wide margin points!

 

Part 2 is a split, MP by 1 pt even JMM got KO hmmm.....???

[genesisTamerlane]

guys sa palagay nyo sadya o hindi? panoorin ko yung replay ulit parang eto ung praktis ni marquez eh

http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=PH&feature=player_embedded&v=BVV0x9TAD1Y

[uaeboy25]

Oo nga anong kinalaman ni Pacman don e lumaban lang sya fair and square? Parehas sila ni JMM. Kaso nga lang the judges favored the champion. I dont really get why this win bothered some people. Would they want na Talo si Pacman? I dread to see that day. Parang Namatayan tayo non.

 

Nope everytime na magbibigay ng combination si pacquiao tinatapakan nya sa paa si pacman para hindi nya magamit ung sidestep na diskarte nya kay delahoya. Asar na asar si marquez, nandaya na nga talo pa rin

 

 

As i said, lots of pinoy was naturally born crab mentality

[solicitor]

I am not proud at all with Manny pacquiao....he should be ashamed of himself....only those blind assh*le fans of him believed that he won this fight. Boxing again shows its ugly miserable head.....its all about the f#&king money!!!!The least that Manny can do is to apologize to Marquez!!!