xxio

NBA = top basketball league in the U.S.

PBA = top basketball league in RP

ergo, NBA = PBA

so

if NBA = "world champion"

then PBA = "world champion"

 

in theory, the euroleague should be higher than the NBA since it consists of champions from different countries, like... the PCC

 

you are confused with national team tourneys and club team tourneys.

if you can tell me WHAT SPECIFIC NBA TEAM competed at the 2002 WC your "logic" will hold ground.

if NBA="world champion", then PBA = "world champion"

There falls your argument, IF..... BUT the PBA doesn't claim world championship, even the NBA doesn't. The PHILIPPINE Basketball Association proclaims a Philippine Pro Champion for the teams that participate in it. The NATIONAL Basketball Association proclaims the NBA Champ for their league and the teams that play in it for that tournament and that season only.

Again the Euroleague winners are champions over the specific teams that participated for that specific tournament and are crowned champions of that specific tournament. Nothing more nothing less. You admit in theory the Euroleague Champs are higher than the NBA Champs based on your theory. I will then defer to your infinite wisdom and say based on your logic the Euroleague Champs are better than the NBA Champs.

I have said IF (you have to read closely of you will get lost) an NBA Team was sent. The example was to show that a US team was beatable. Again read closely and pay attention to punctuation (I'm sure they teach you that in college).

I will stick to my stand. Maybe if I put it more simply you will understand.....

The NBA Champs are champs of the NBA.

The PBA Champs are champs of the PBA.

The NCAA Champs are the champs of the NCAA.

The UAAP Champs are the champs of the UAAP.

The PCCL Champs are the champs of the PCCL.

Just substitute the appropriate team for the year they won.

Again congratulations DLSU for being the 2008 PCCL Champions.

Where do you your logic? Maybe it wasn't taught to you in college.

There was never any mention of NBA=PBA.

You just limit it to NBA Champs=best team in the NBA for that tournament. PBA champs= best team in PBA.

If we used your logic if an NBA team were sent to the World Championships and they lost and ended up being 6th (remember that 6-7 years ago I think that happened to the USA) that would mean every NBA team would be at the most the 6th best in the world at that time.

I think not, it only means that they were the 6th best for that tournament.

You mean the NBA Champs will not beat the "World Champs"

Any tournament/league can call itself World..... something. It doesn't mean that it is the best in the world. Just look at boxing and beauty pageants.

That's BS

 

The PCCL champion is the best team in the country.

If the PCCL is so important to DLSU why the continued snubbing only up to this year? We can excuse you for the suspension year but all the other years?

THEN when you win it it is suddenly the be all and end all of all collegiate leagues?

How convenient di ba?

So ADMU (last year's PCCL Champions) was a better team than DLSU last year? Even though I'm a ADMU alumni I don't think so. Even though DLSU because did not participate in the PCCL using your reasoning that is the logical and reasonable conclusion.

The PCCL is a tournament. The Champion of that tournament is the best and are the champions over all the teams that joined that league/tournament for that league and that tournament.

The UAAP is the same for that tournament.

The NCAA is the same for that tournament.

I have said it before and I will say it again.

Again congratulations for DLSU for being the 2008 PCCL Champions, despite being hampered by depleted line-up won the tournament.

Credit where credit is due.

wrong timing pccl finals...finals ng dlsu e...haha

Mahirap ba exam sa Translation Studies and Sports Management?

I know of someone on the DLSU golf team naka enrol sa Translation Studies. He is on his 2nd year in DLSU. 3 units of lang daw ng Math ang kailangan niya. I play golf with his cousins. Alaskado siya. Buti na lang daw sa golf addition lang kailangan.

I hope our DLSU friends here can post the curriculum of Translation Studies para I can prove his cousins wrong. Kawawa naman yun bata.

Bottom line is, DLSU beat NCAA champs San Beda and UAAP champs Ateneo in one tournament, fair and square. It doesn't matter if the tournament is not as important as the other two leagues, for as long as these proud teams face-off it will always be a battle and no one will give an inch to their rivals.

 

"one of the privileges of winning is to make fun of the other teams"

 

"to the winner goes the spoils"

http://manilatonight.com/index.php?showtopic=44802&st=580

Yup the winner of the PCCL gets to crown themselves as winners of the PCCL,

NOT as "the best collegiate team in the country".

That is why....

Congratulations to DLSU for winning the PCCL this year

Congratulations to ADMU for winning the UAAP this year

Congratulations for DLSU for beating ADMU 1 time this year.

Congratulations to ADMU for beating DLSU 4 times this year.

Maybe next year roles will be reversed, but until then those are the facts regardless of whether ADMU didn't play their stars, whether DLSU had finals, whether ADMU just got back from CDO playing the Jesuit games, tec.

who said it was the most important?

Greenarrow?...... Just read wackyracer's post.

From not being worthy enough to play in=snub, the PCCL now is important enough to "crown themselves the best collegiate team in the country".

GreenArrow is correct though. They are CROWNING THEMSELVES the best collegiate team in the country. Nobody else is even close to thinking of crowning them that title.

Para di lang magulo, can we ask our DLSU friends now pa lang to choose which is more important for next year?

UAAP or PCCL?

From a tournament "not important enough to join" to being "the most important tournament in the country".

DLSU wasn't qualified to join the PCCL during the year they were suspended. Just pointing that out.

At least he admits DLSU deserved to win that game.

I have yet to see a DLSU person in authority to acknowledge that ADMU was the superior team in the previous 4 times they met.

Congratulations DLSU.

JV Casio it was great having your type of talent and persona play against the Blue eagles all these years. I wish you well.

Can a mod delete my last post? The argument is useless. This is a sports thread and if the head of the university cannot accept it it would be useless.

I can see the sourgraping. I'm still looking for the intellectual part.

To my DLSU friends can't you see the road that Pumaren and Bro. Armin have taken your bball program down. I agree it has produced championships at what price? Has it produced La Salle students who reflect the values of DLSU? If a student sees pep-tests being altered for him, if he sees his coach and now their president talk and constantly make excuses like this doesn't it leave a bad taste in your mouths? How many of your Varsity players ending up graduating from college in less than 6 years? From what my DLSU supporter uncle told me maswerte na kung umabot ng 70% maka graduate at all, tapos translation studies and sports managment pa?

When Enrico was King Eagle, I found him too ill-tempered and getting goaded and baited and biting into Yeo's style I decried his style of play. When Lipa would curse his players and the refsI expressed my sentiments that these are kids, di dadpat sila minumura and the refs are doing their jobs, complain yes, pagalitan siguro pero murahin?

I have been to games and I have heard Coaches Pumaren and Santiago, especially Santiago. It is a disgrace what comes out of their mouths.

I am nothing in the ADMU community but when I decry acts like these and others see and follow suit maybe change will occur. I hope you guys see this.

I wish the ADMU vs DLSU rivalry to flourish because it is fun, but not at the cost of the future of either school's vision and the futures of these student-athletes.

Sa mata ng hindi La Sallista at Atenista, nagmumukha tayong mayayabang.. Sana tumigil na ito!!! Mr. Nathanielsz's article should open not only La Salle's eyes but also Ateneo's, that this friendly rivalry has taken a very wrong turn for the worse.. Who's to blame? IMO, pareho..

I agree. Both sides have made mistakes. Noone is blameless.

The glaring thing which Ronnie Nathanielz points out is that the mistake by ADMU was done by an alumni which he apologized for and for which the leader of the school community apologized for as well.

The mistake by DLSU was committed by persons in authority, people who should be leading by example. Instead of being magnanimous and accepting an apology Bro. Armin shows that maybe it is not just Coach Pumaren alone who has been leading these boys down the path which has resulted in such an unsportsmanlike/disrespectful attitude towards the game and the UAAP community. If a player/student sees their leader acting that way, how can they expect themselves to be any better?

If the apology was accepted for what it was maybe things would simmer down, but to utter inflammatory speeches at a valedictory address which has no bearing on a basketball game takes it yet to the next level. "fanning the flames" was the term used by Mr. Nathanielz. A simple "apology accepted" or even a "no comment" would've shown much more class. That is why people cannot move on. One cannot utter such statements in public and not expect a backlash.

If Fr. Nebres ever talked bad about DLSU during a valedictory address I would lose the same respect for him that I have lost for Bro. Armin.

http://www.manilastandardtoday.com/?page=sports6_oct14_2008

This is the point of view of someone outside the ADMU vs DLSU community.

Totoo kaya ang usap-usapan na kaya biglang bumagsak ang recruitment ng La Salle in the last two years ay dahil maraming alumni supporters ang tinabangan na dahil sa mga kawalanghiyaan pinaggagawa ng mga namamahala sa basketball program nila.

 

The last straw was the Benitez-Gatchalian scandal that resulted in their forfeiting the championship and year long suspension.

 

After that, even avid sponsors like Danding backed off.

 

What do you think?

I don't know, but my cousin who was a supporter of the program could usually be relied on for a bit of "support" by DLSU. During that DLSU community meeting were the PEP Test scandal was heavily discussed and some alumni walked out because they were unhappy with the views that were espoused by some who held positions of power. He was among them. I haven't asked if he still "supports". Offhand just by our last few conversations I would say no. So maybe this indeed is a factor in the current lack of star/solid players in the DLSU varsity.

Thank you for the facts.

Maybe Coach Franz should be required to watch "Blue Chips", not so much for the basketball but for the way Nick Nolte acted in the end. The program is not the be all and end all. There is something to be said about losing with dignity.

I doubt if he will though, there is a "Blue" in the title.

Sorry forgot the guys who are sick of the back and forth, but there is another option. It is called.................. not opening this thread????

There are a few other threads in MTC that are more interesting I think

Like I said previously, DLSU has more wins over ADMU in head to head.

Congratulations to DLSU for that.

ADMU had a long dark age when we had guys who were 6''2" playing center, times when our varsity players wouldn't be able to make the team B of DLSU.

We can be good losers...can you?

Just to add on the apology issue, did Brian Ilad ever apologize for the sucker punch, did Salgado apologize for the batok? All these things did not happen in a celebration on campus but on National TV for all the communities of all UAAP schools to see. Did the school's person in authority or maybe the coach apologize AND NOT MAKE EXCUSES for them? I don't remember but I do hope with all my heart and for the sake of my DLSU friends that some sort of apology was issued for those incidents.

While you're doing stats, can you let me know how many times in the championship in both UAAP and NCAA that ADMU and DLSU have met and how many each of them have in that head to head match up? I only know of the UAAP results.

matanong lang po... is this about the recently concluded men's senior basketball season or are you including the time when both schools started competing in the UAAP?

 

simple lang naman diba...

for this season: mas magaling ang Ateneo dahil nag champion sila ngayon

last season: mas magaling ang La Salle (sila champion e)

kung isasama mo yung panahon na sabay silang nasa UAAP: La Salle ata dahil mas marami silang napanalunang kampeonato

yung sa mga panahon na wala sa kanilang dalawa ang kampeonato: La Salle pa rin ata dahil simula nung mga panahon na yun e mas lamang sila sa standings kahit hindi sila kampeon

 

para dun sa nanalo (Ateneo)... Congrats!

para dun sa natalo (DLSU)... Ok lang yan. Bawi na lang next season.

para dun sa ibang team... Bawi na lang din kayo at magpalakas pa kayo.

para dun sa mga bwakanang-inang may kinalaman sa anomalya sa tickets... bwakanang-ina nyo

I agree. I tell all my DLSU friends that I'm sure they have won more head to head match ups. Sayang lang rin that during the times they were dominating, pangit lang talaga ang team ng ADMU and could not meet them in the finals.

Malas lang nila the times ADMU and DLSU have met in the finals ADMU has had the better team. They have accepted that and moved on. Not everyone from the DLSU community resorts to not accepting things.

Please don't close, I would love to see Green Archer actually tackle issues. Instead of keep trying to jump from one issue to another just so he doesn't have to clearly address a specific one.

Numerous Ateneans here have said even though the acts were made in the spirit of fun they have still apologized, just as Fr. Nebres and Mr. Paredes have. It would be hard to compare those acts as well since they were done in the confines of the campus. I see college rivalries in the US do that all the time. Personally that still doesn't make it right to me.

Aranas' jiggy on National TV was made seasons ago, the non-acceptance on National TV was made weeks ago, the Pep test scandal has been so long I can't even recall if there was an apology or was it just an acceptance of the punishment after threatening to contest it to the Supreme Court?

The difference is that when we make a mistake we apologize and recognize that we are fallible and imperfect. Some people make all the excuses and threats they can. It shows disrespect for the league and people they have offended.

That is not a holier than thou attitude. I have said here and on other boards that the plank/wood burning, even though in the spirit of fun was unacceptable. I hold myself and my school to the same high standards I am holding you and your school to. Again Mr. Paredes and Fr. Nebres have apologized. Do I hear anything from the DLSU officials?

How do you win, when you're up against 8 ? you can't the ateneo team is really a stronger team, but thanks to the referees DLSU wasn't given a chance to give them a better fight, this year in the UAAP, money can buy everything

Baka naman kase yun budget niyo sa ref hanggan pang 2 fouls lang kay Rabeh, o kaya pang limit lang sa playing time ni Tiu and Salamat pero di pang foul-out?

Bakit this year lang, why not include the other years when DLSU would use the NABRO refs as their practice refs? Of course there is nothing legally wrong with that, morally would be different but hard to discuss morals with people who morals are as flexible as their test results.

It is just so convenient to blame the refs and not credit the bench players from Ateneo who stepped up when the stars got in foul trouble. DLSU didn't have anyone step up at all. There is no excuse for that. Mga rason lang uli.

Yes the Ateneans involved should apologize.

I think that is why the apology of Mr. Paredes was in general..."please feel free to extend it to parties you may deem fit to receive it. " It was to whomever was offended not just the DLSU community.

It was an act of an individual and he was man enough to admit and apologize. He apologized less than 4 days after the incident happened. The trophy snub to the entire UAAP community happened 2 weeks ago, they even already accepted the trophy pero wala parin apology. I wouldn't hold my breathe.

There is no doubt, UNIVERSAL OR OTHERWISE that DLSU doesn't have the decency nor the sportmanship to admit that it was a mistake not to send anyone at all to get the trophy (again it doesn't have to be someone from the Team), no matter what the reason.

TROPHY UPDATE:

 

During the UAAP board meeting yesterday afternoon held at Quezon Hall of UP-Diliman, Br. Bernie Oca FSC accepted the 1st runner-up trophy from UAAP president Sergio Cao in a simple ceremony.

 

Another thing - WHY is it SO IMPORTANT for certain SENSITIVE OR GUILTY ATENEANS that DLSU-Manila physically ACCEPTS the 2008 UAAP 1st Runner-Up Trophy?

 

To "validate" their Game 2 "win" and their 2008 "Seniors "Title"?

 

We UNDERSTAND.

 

Yet the UNIVERSAL DOUBT regarding Game 2 remains.

It is not important to us Ateneans only. It is important to the whole UAAP. By snubbing the trophy DLSU puts shame to trying your best and finishing second in the UAAP. If you don't think the UAAP is important enough to win, then why bother competing.

I see you are trying to pull it off topic again. Instead of focusing on the issue of non-acceptance of trophy you want to shift to another issue para lang you don't have to come up with logical answers. The doubt in game 2 YES It was called tight, that is why the UAAP Season 71 MVP had to miss almost he entire first half. Ateneo adjusted to the tight calls and their bench stepped up. Would you have expected those shots from Jobe and Baldos? Except for the die hard Blue fans noone did. DLSU did not adjust and noone stepped up....loss....... that simple.

I didn't hear any complaints from the Blue Eagle fans when Tiu, Salamat, etc got into trouble in the other game. Maybe they/we should complain just to show it was tight but consistent officiating.

Yes there is doubt why the game (and game 1) was called tightly, but is was called tightly and consistently fair from Game 1. Di lang talaga marunong mag-adjust ang DLSU coaching staff.

Bro Armin has accepted Fr. Nebres' apology.

Now we all anxiously await the apology for not being able to hear that they were being called to claim thier trophy.

Yes, maybe you did not hear/were not informed but any gentleman worth his salt will still apologize for the apparent snub. If not it becomes an excuse and not a reason.

I do find it strange that 6 years ago Rabeh went to the HS department? HS transferee I guess.

Pag HS transferee may 1 year residency pa ba?

If anything the article just drives the knife deeper into DLSU hearts....what could've been. Imagine Rabeh instead of Walsham at center freeing up Rico to play the wing and not worry about defense.....sayang talaga.