Military Literature

[ilb4u2nyt]

You'll surely love Tom Clancy with his high-tech and state-of the-art battle scenarios.

 

I would love to see The Bear and the Dragon turned into a movie :thumbsupsmiley:

[Dr_PepPeR]

Both Marshall and Eisenhower never experienced combat first-hand. And both made their greatest contributions to mankind outside the military arena, Eisenhower as a two-term President of the United States, and Marshall as Secretary of State and author of the Marshall Plan to rebuild Western Europe, for which he received the Nobel Peace Prize.

 

I believe both made their greatest contributions during World War II. Marshall for his influence in Washington and Eisenhower for making a multi-national command structure work. After the war I both loathed them for trying to k*ll off the USMC.

[Dr_PepPeR]

Any new military related books worth reading?

[Sweet Introvert]

Any new military related books worth reading?

None at the moment maester, most are simply waste of money.

[Dr_PepPeR]

None at the moment maester, most are simply waste of money.

 

Dammit I guess we will have to waste our money on someone I mean something else then.

[Sweet Introvert]

Dammit I guess we will have to waste our money on someone I mean something else then.

Wahoo!!!

[Dr_PepPeR]

I guess I'll just read for the third time 'The Corps' series by W.E.B. Griffin.

[Justin Nicholas]

It's not really military, but it still falls under war.

 

Anyway, can someone please tell me where could I get a copy of John Logan's "The Last Samurai"?

I heard that the movie was based on a novel.

[Hex_Arenas]

Ive only recently discovered this thread. Very much interested, maybe I could join in the discussion sometime. I like collecting war stories, and its unfortunate theres very little military literature dealing with first hand accounts of WW2 survivors in the Philippines.

 

Hellspawn, would you please help me in providing some links or reading material about WW2 topics? Only recently I got acquainted with the story of the heroes of Telemark, but I couldnt find any more readings of it aside from what the wikipedia has (which is not much). Or any WW2 reading wil do. Thanks in advance. Ive read John Keegan's History of Warfare, and also some classical stuff -- I liked the Histories of Herodotus, but I never got to finish Thyucidides' Pelopponesian War. I also like Steven Pressfield's books, although I dont care too much for the narrative stuff.

 

Just last year I was interested in reading about the Enigma machine, the Double Cross system, and also the activities of the OSS and other non-conventional warfare ativities made in WW2. And also the Battle of Midway, and the war in the Philippines. There is very little sources for this. Well, actually just about any WW2 related topic interests me.

 

Im not fascinated by war. I think its sad and horrible, my interests in this is only to know what happened in the past. I was lucky enough to have grandparents who survived the destruction of Manila, and who told me about Japanese atrocities and how terrifying those times are. The Japanese had a killing frenzy, bayonetting and shooting men women and children. Babies were speared along with their mothers, or they were thrown in the air and caught by the points of bayonets. My grandfolks, they were younger then than I am now, one of my grandfathers was just a teenager then, and he told me he was slapped around by Japanese soldiers who made him carry water just for fun, and then he was severely beaten. I had a grandmother who worked as a nurse for the ALLIES and who sheltered liberation forces at great risk to her life, she used to tell me lots of stories how they eluded the Japanese in the mountains and also here in Manila when she hid American soldiers in the house and her then baby daughter (my tita) was held by the Americans and hushed for fear of being discovered by the Japanese. Theres also this story of how they saved an alleged Muslim noble man who was a guerilla soldier, and who, after the war, went and searched for her and gifted her with a kris (which hung at the living room of our old house).

 

Just recently, my girlfriend's grandfather who is a veteran and served in the USAFFE told me of his war stories before he went back to the states. He says his commanding officer, a captain (who it turned out was a distant relative of mine) was captured by the Japanese, tortured, and then killed, and then his body was hung at the church bell tower. He says he later took part in the liberation of Rizal, a very treacherous place at that time, full of foxholes and Jap snipers -- it was a good idea, he said, to stay 2 kilometers away from any coconut tree which grew on top of a mound (the mound possibly could have foxholes w a Jap). He had very vivid stories, one of which is his encounter with a Jap who bayonetted him and slashed his left arm, then he took his revolver and shot the Jap, but he pulled the trigger too fast and only shot the Jap in the foot, the Jap ran away and was taken by others in his platoon. He says he once ran into an open field to attack some Japanese positions along with some few men, and they were being fired upon, bullets were flying all over, and thinking back, he couldnt believe he survived it. He still remembers how the bullets looked, whizzing around and/or hitting the ground.

 

(This is war literature too so guess Im not off topic?)

 

Their stories were very different from what we usually read in books and see in movies where war is sometimes glorified. What was common among those who saw war first hand, those who were combatants, was they disdain it, they dont like war movies too much, and yet they say it was something they just had to do, they had no choice and wish it was otherwise. Me I just like to know what happened.

 

Those were very different times, they all say.

[hellspawn]

hi hex,

 

i'm flattered that you're asking me for advice, but it appears that you're already way ahead in the game. the research you've done on your own and the topics you've brought up clearly show that you're already familiar with the topic.

 

the only other advice i can give, and i'm sure a lot of the other posters here will agree, is join a library. a really good library will have an extensive selection of books. admittedly some will be total crap, but that's part of the fun of personal research. as i've mentioned before, i'm lucky enough to live in a part of the world where public libraries are considered essential for the benefit of the citizens, and they're well maintained and well stocked.

 

one last thing, another conflict that's extremely interesting, and was also a precursor of the horrors of wwII, is the spanish civil war. i can't get enough of this particular topic. you can find some very good movies about it as well.

 

happy reading.

[Hex_Arenas]

You mentioned a couple of books way back in the thread and ill try to find them. Nice post about the samurai not being military, but rather a martial class. One must not also think of the samurai as the stereotype all noble and indomitable warrior. That is a myth perpetrated by Western movies. Even Akira Kurosawa portrayed some of his samurai as less than noble and sometimes even cowardly.

 

I agree with you regarding the importance and use of special units in warfare. One easily thinks of the OSS sabotage and espionage activities in WW2, but the idea is not a modern one -- one could consider the Greeks who entered Troy via the wooden horse as some sort of special ops unit, and prior to that, Odysseus and others entered the city in disguises to scout the ways of the city (in the Iliad of course). And in the Bible, there is the story of Joshua's spies who entered Jericho, and gave him information regarding the city's inhabitants and defenses, a real spy story complete with a woman who furnished their escape. In the real world, the ancient Egyptians had developed an extensive espionage system too. There are others of course. A discussion of this is worth its own thread actually.

 

Hmm, just a little trivia, you know the Spartans had the crests on their helmets transversely, like how Napoleon wore his cap. It meant the crest went from ear to ear, not like how it was depicted in the movie 300, but who cares I guess except ultra history buff purists? They looked frightening enough, which was how the Spartans in formation was described by their contemporaries. Although I would have liked to see in the movie how the Persian scouts saw their first glimpse of the Spartans when they spied upon them. Herodotus writes the Spartans were combing their hair and doing calisthenics, seeming not to care for their impending doom. Cool customers these Spartans...And in the end, when all their swords and shields and spear were broken, Herodotus writes they fought using their hands and teeth, like wild animals.

 

Ill see what I can find about the Spanish Civil War. I know one of the most revolutionary movements in art began with a painting by Goya about an execution. And I think modern war correspondence began there....

[JHP]

Good morning, gentlemen, like Hex i'm a newbie, and am glad to have discovered this thread, because so much of what the world is now, including our country, has been shaped by warfare in different forms as a most extreme form of human interaction. Apart from the revolution against Spain, our war against the U.S., WWII, the Huks, the Mindanao war, there are, of course, armed conflicts still ongoing in our country right now involving the national democratic front, the MILF, Abu Sayyaf, and islamic extremists. Reading can help build a better better understand what is going on. I personally believe that war, indeed, is hell. At the same time, i can imagine that participating in armed conflict is a crucible that has shaped the character of men to make them appreciate a just peace and build instead of destroy.

 

About the Spanish civil war, i know it's fiction, not history, but Ernest Hemingway's "For Whom The Bell Tolls" was an interesting read for me. He covered the civil war and wrote about it in that novel.

 

Also, there's a book i'm reading now about the U.S. Navy Seals, "Warrior Soul" by Chuck Pfarrer, surprisingly, seems to be a pretty honest account of his training and experiences as a Seal, but we'll never really know. Fascinating read, though.

 

One of the best books about the Vietnam war i've ever read was Michael Herr's "Dispatches." Herr was a correspondent there. I think his description of a nighttime encounter was recreated in the movie "Platoon." When i watched the scene, it was almost exactly how he'd described it in "Dispatches."

 

All the best, look forward to learning more from all of you.

[hellspawn]

@ hex,

 

steven pressfield in his book "gates of fire" described the two ways the crests were worn by the spartans: the transverse way was, if i remember correctly, worn by officers, and the other way by rank and file. all spartans had long hair, which the movie didn't portray, as it was one of the commandments that spartan men had to live by: "nothing makes a handsome man more comely, or an ugly one more terrifying" is the reasoning behind it.

 

i know the painting you're referring to: goya's painting was of an execution of spanish guerillas by napoleon's troops during the franco-spanish war which predates the spanish civil war.

 

one of the most famous of war photographs was taken by robert capa during the spanish civil war and shows the moment of death of a spanish fighter, a republican i believe. it was highly controversial and capa was accused of staging the photo, but subsequent investigations have proven it to be genuine. capa was also in the first wave of troops who landed at omaha beach on d-day during wwII.

 

@ jhp

 

there's a great book on the us navy seals which follows a group of applicants as they go through bud/s. i can't remember the title off hand, but it was the first time ever that the seals allowed outsiders into their training compound. the book is packed full of pictures of what it's like to undergo seal selection.

 

one interesting piece of information in the book: the instructors will happily fail an entire intake, up to 150 men, if they think that they don't meet the right standards. imagine, a fail rate of 100% in some cases...

 

"dispatches" was a great book. if you watch "full metal jacket" you'll find big chunks of dialogue in the movie are taken direct from the book.

 

some very interesting reading can also be found regarding the french experience in indo-china (as vietnam was called then). a really good one is called "hell in a very small space" about the battle of dien bien phu, which the french lost to a determined and brilliant campaign led by general vo nguyen giap.

 

 

i'd also highly recommend reading up on the philippine experience in korea, especially the battle of yultong. this is the best website i've ever come across regarding the philippine expeditionary forces to korea (peftok):

 

http://www.geocities.com/peftok/10thbct3.html

 

it shows what filipino soldiers were like once upon a time...

[markanthonychan]

Military literature? Get yourself the real thing. These are books I read:

 

The Art of War by Sun Tzu

The Prince by Niccolo Machiavelli

The OODA Loop by John Boyd

The 33 Strategies of War by Robert Greene

The 48 Laws of Power by Robert Greene

 

HIGHLY RECOMMENDED :thumbsupsmiley:

Edited June 23, 2008 by markanthonychan

[JHP]

@ hex,

 

steven pressfield in his book "gates of fire" described the two ways the crests were worn by the spartans: the transverse way was, if i remember correctly, worn by officers, and the other way by rank and file. all spartans had long hair, which the movie didn't portray, as it was one of the commandments that spartan men had to live by: "nothing makes a handsome man more comely, or an ugly one more terrifying" is the reasoning behind it.

 

i know the painting you're referring to: goya's painting was of an execution of spanish guerillas by napoleon's troops during the franco-spanish war which predates the spanish civil war.

 

one of the most famous of war photographs was taken by robert capa during the spanish civil war and shows the moment of death of a spanish fighter, a republican i believe. it was highly controversial and capa was accused of staging the photo, but subsequent investigations have proven it to be genuine. capa was also in the first wave of troops who landed at omaha beach on d-day during wwII.

 

@ jhp

 

there's a great book on the us navy seals which follows a group of applicants as they go through bud/s. i can't remember the title off hand, but it was the first time ever that the seals allowed

 

outsiders into their training compound. the book is packed full of pictures of what it's like to undergo seal selection.

 

one interesting piece of information in the book: the instructors will happily fail an entire intake, up to 150 men, if they think that they don't meet the right standards. imagine, a fail rate of 100% in some cases...

 

"dispatches" was a great book. if you watch "full metal jacket" you'll find big chunks of dialogue in the movie are taken direct from the book.

 

some very interesting reading can also be found regarding the french experience in indo-china (as vietnam was called then). a really good one is called "hell in a very small space" about the battle of dien bien phu, which the french lost to a determined and brilliant campaign led by general vo nguyen giap.

 

 

i'd also highly recommend reading up on the philippine experience in korea, especially the battle of yultong. this is the best website i've ever come across regarding the philippine expeditionary forces to korea (peftok):

 

http://www.geocities.com/peftok/10thbct3.html

 

it shows what filipino soldiers were like once upon a time...

 

 

Hellspawn, many thanks for the info, especially about korea. Yes, i remember those parts from "Dispatches" that were in "FMJ," the marines going into Hue during the Tet offensive.

 

More on Vietnam, a friend of mine who was a U.S. recon marine in Vietnam (with a bad case of post-traumatic stress syndrome even today, heavy survivor guilt) lent me a book called "Eye Of The Tiger" written by another recon marine who served there. My friend said he had known some of the men in the book. When he became a marine 2nd lt. in a batch of 3,000 or some huge number like that, he remembered that plenty of marine brass showed up at their commissioning; only later did he realize, he said, that the brass knew a lot of them were going to die. A few years later, about a third of them had been killed in Vietnam.

 

Just another sad, war story.