Apo Marcos : Facts And Myths

[camiar]

On 11/15/2021 at 11:55 AM, JonKartero said:

Primitivo Mijares, the author of "The Conjugal Dictatorship," was very much "there" as Marcos' PR guy. But sure, keep selling the Marcos propaganda.

I post below an excerpt from a post on Facebook from certain Ms. Thea Tan on Nov. 15, 2021 about PRIMITIVO MIJARES:
 

"Quote:

Marcos critics often cite Primitivo Mijares’ book, The Conjugal Dictatorship, and take this book as ABSOLUTE TRUTH about martial law.

Many of those who cite this book didn’t even read it, nor did they bother to research Mijares’ reputation as a known paid propagandist before and during martial law.

-----

ACCORDING TO WIKILEAKS:

“Mission able confirm Primitivo Mijares, former Chairman, Media Advisory Council (abolished November 1974) and well-known Philippine columnist and Marcos apologist has, in fact, abandoned the New Society.

"Mijares' moved not surprising to Manila community which recognizes him as a complete opportunist who recently was feeling the hot breath of martial law regime for certain recent extra-curricular activities. Allegedly, Mijares gambled away 50,000 dollars of GOP funds during a 1974 Las Vegas visit, misappropriated for personal use 7,000 dollars of the First Lady's (Imelda) personal funds, and attempted to rape a well-connected Philippine Foreign Service secretary while in New York for the Trade Center opening, all of which accumulated to make the prospect of a return to Philippines decreasingly attractive."

Wikileaks also revealed that Mijares received “financial inducements” from Marcos’ political enemies, the Lopezes. [1]

----

Quoting RUBEN DIARIO, in this 1974 article, Managing the media Filipino style:

“The worst of these newspapermen were those who covered the House of Representatives, whose over-100 headline-hungry members were easy pickings for newsmen extortionists. The dean of these Congressional reporters was Mr. Mijares himself (who bragged before martial law that he was worth P3 million), who, upon his appointment as MAC chairman, promptly surrounded himself with his cronies from the Congressional Press Club.

"Mr. Mijares himself is a most interesting case study in media opportunism.” [2]

----

STEVE PSINAKIS, an anti-Marcos critic married into the Lopez family that owns ABS-CBN, wrote in his memoir:

“The US justice department’s investigation revealed that after his February 1975 defection, Mijares did, in fact, extort money from Marcos by feeding him imaginary information for which Marcos was ignorant enough to pay considerable sums. While Mijares was still receiving money from Marcos, he was at the same time lambasting Marcos in the US press, causing the Marcos regime irreparable damage.” [3]

----

According to STERLING SEAGRAVE, in his book, The Marcos Dynasty:

“Ferdinand first tried to discredit Mijares by circulating that he had absconded with government funds, that he was paid $150,000 by the Lopezes to join the anti-Marcos exiles, and that he was staying in the United States because of a liaison with a Filipina exile. (Mijares had left his wife and family in Manila.)

“Meanwhile, Mijares was playing both sides against the middle. After “defecting,” he was secretly accepting money from Ferdinand’s agents in exchange for information about the exiles. The FBI discovered later that Mijares had signed several vouchers for $20,000 and at least one of these signatures was authentic. The February 24, 1975 voucher bore the handwritten notation: “Sir; I received this. Tibo Mijares.”

----

 

Wouldn't you question the credibility of this book knowing this was written by someone who was not scrupulous about who paid him for what, and who received money from the number one oligarch during Marcos' regime: the Lopezes?

 

And why not ALSO read the following books from REAL journalists who were once communists, or had been arrested and jailed during martial law but “WOKE-UP” to being brainwashed by black propaganda?

These journalists/authors are:

----

RIGOBERTO TIGLAO - Journalist and author of DEBUNKED and Colossal Deception

Tiglao was arrested in July 1973, together with nearly all of the Communist Party’s Manila-Rizal Regional Committee, which he headed.

He was incarcerated in five Marcos detention centers for about a year and half, together with his late wife, Raquel, from 1973 to 1974: the Philippine Constabulary’s (PC) 5th Constabulary Unit in Camp Crame; that of the Intelligence Service of the Armed Forces of the Philippines (ISAFP) in Camp Aguinaldo; that of the National Intelligence Coordinating Authority in its headquarters at V. Luna Road in Quezon City (where it still is); as well as the Ipil Youth Rehabilitation Center and the maximum security Youth Rehabilitation Center, both in Fort Bonifacio — the latter two being the biggest during the martial law period.

----

CECILIO ARILLO - Journalist and author of Greed and Betrayal, Breakaway, and A Country Imperiled

Arillo was jailed during the martial law regime for his stories on the irregularities in the sugar industry.

Under the Aquino administration, he was again arrested on Dec. 9, 1987, by troops led by Brig. Gen. Ramon Montaño, and jailed without formal charges; after that, armed men broke into his offices and carted off his documents and other valuables; then in 1990, the Department of Justice, under Sen. Frank Drilon, charged him with rebellion. In 1992, unidentified men machine-gunned his house.

In 1998, under the Ramos administration, the Justice Department, whose chief was Sen. Teofisto Guingona, implicated him in the 1986 kidnapping and double murder of labor leader Rolando Olalia and his driver, Leonor Alay-ay.

The background to all these depredations, as Arillo saw it, were the stories he filed as Manila Times columnist and reporter about the corruption, human rights violations, “gross misgovernance, misgovernance, hatred, and vengeance” of the Marcos, Aquino, and Ramos regimes.

----

ROD KAPUNAN - Journalist and author of Reflections on Martial Law: Saving the Republic

Kapunan used to be a high-ranking member of the CPP-NPA in the 60s and 70s and a known propagandist during martial law.

When Marcos was "ousted", Kapunan decided to read all the writings about Marcos, books written by Marcos, studied all the agencies created during the Marcos regime, gathered so much data, and realized that what we hear from the media are all propaganda.

Eventually, Kapunan wrote books "to set the record straight".

----

And special mention the following authors:

JUAN PONCE ENRILE - Author of Juan Ponce Enrile, A Memoir

Juan Ponce Enrile’s career spans six presidencies from Ferdinand Marcos to Benigno S. Aquino III, during which the Philippines metamorphosed from a free-wheeling republic into a brutal dictatorship that eventually gave way to a turbulent return to democratic rule.

Sheer longevity, proximity to power and a forceful personality have made Enrile difficult to trivialize, much less ignore. Neither his friends nor his enemies have the power to exaggerate or misrepresent his gifts as well as his faults; they would have to reckon with the man’s personal point of view, here most eloquently told from where he stood and contributed his share to the nation’s narrative.

LEWIS GLEECK - Author of President Aquino: Sainthood Postponed (banned or out of print in the Philippines)

Mr. Gleeck was a member of the Foreign Service of the United States, serving several times in Washington and in Canada, Finland, Sweden, Austria, Iceland, Norway and Pakistan before arriving in the Philippines, where he retired after six years (1962-1969) as Consul General of the American Embassy in Manila.

He then joined the USAID to work on land reform and cooperatives and subsequently to serve for several years as consultant on base-community relations to the U.S. Navy at Subic Bay. He was a long-time editor of the AHC Bulletin and curator of the AHC library

====================================

Sources:

[1] Wikileaks - Declassified Cable - 1975 February 24 https://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/1975MANILA02351_b.html

[2] Ruben Diario (1974) Managing the media Filipino style, Bulletin of Concerned Asian Scholars https://www.tandfonline.com/.../14672715.1974.10413017

[3] Steve Psinakis; A Country Not Even His Own

[4] Sterling Seagrave; The Marcos Dynasty

The bio of these journalists can be found in the preface or introduction of their respective books.

Unquote..."

Edited November 17, 2021 by camiar

[JonKartero]

On 11/16/2021 at 8:43 AM, jubal said:

a counter to your argumant na walang editorial oversight ang social media, is that people are starting to hate established media, because the biases of their owners are being revealed by the social media. dati walang social media, sila lang ang source of information, now with a social media, kahit sino may platform for a very big audience. Dati, yung mga counter-arguments sa mga sinasabi ng media walang platform. Dahil may 'editorial oversight', filtered ang information.

social media is the best and the worst thing to happen. But I appreciate that it happened. Kelangan lang ng utak para hindi maloko sa panahon ng social media. Just be open to all view points, have discernment, then you can navigate through the wild and unfiltered information of the social media age.

The problem with being "open to all view points" is that unproven, baseless myths - like many of the things repeated here - are suddenly put on the same level as established facts. I reasonably trust my discernment, but as this thread illustrates, the discernment of others is not as trustworthy.

Facts aren't a matter of democracy. They're a matter of record. A million people denying Marcos-era atrocities does not magically make the records at Bantayog ng mga Bayani disappear.

[JonKartero]

1 hour ago, camiar said:

I post below an excerpt from a post on Facebook from certain Ms. Thea Tan on Nov. 15, 2021 about PRIMITIVO MIJARES:
 

"Quote:

Marcos critics often cite Primitivo Mijares’ book, The Conjugal Dictatorship, and take this book as ABSOLUTE TRUTH about martial law.

Many of those who cite this book didn’t even read it, nor did they bother to research Mijares’ reputation as a known paid propagandist before and during martial law.

-----

ACCORDING TO WIKILEAKS:

“Mission able confirm Primitivo Mijares, former Chairman, Media Advisory Council (abolished November 1974) and well-known Philippine columnist and Marcos apologist has, in fact, abandoned the New Society.

"Mijares' moved not surprising to Manila community which recognizes him as a complete opportunist who recently was feeling the hot breath of martial law regime for certain recent extra-curricular activities. Allegedly, Mijares gambled away 50,000 dollars of GOP funds during a 1974 Las Vegas visit, misappropriated for personal use 7,000 dollars of the First Lady's (Imelda) personal funds, and attempted to rape a well-connected Philippine Foreign Service secretary while in New York for the Trade Center opening, all of which accumulated to make the prospect of a return to Philippines decreasingly attractive."

Wikileaks also revealed that Mijares received “financial inducements” from Marcos’ political enemies, the Lopezes. [1]

----

Quoting RUBEN DIARIO, in this 1974 article, Managing the media Filipino style:

“The worst of these newspapermen were those who covered the House of Representatives, whose over-100 headline-hungry members were easy pickings for newsmen extortionists. The dean of these Congressional reporters was Mr. Mijares himself (who bragged before martial law that he was worth P3 million), who, upon his appointment as MAC chairman, promptly surrounded himself with his cronies from the Congressional Press Club.

"Mr. Mijares himself is a most interesting case study in media opportunism.” [2]

----

STEVE PSINAKIS, an anti-Marcos critic married into the Lopez family that owns ABS-CBN, wrote in his memoir:

“The US justice department’s investigation revealed that after his February 1975 defection, Mijares did, in fact, extort money from Marcos by feeding him imaginary information for which Marcos was ignorant enough to pay considerable sums. While Mijares was still receiving money from Marcos, he was at the same time lambasting Marcos in the US press, causing the Marcos regime irreparable damage.” [3]

----

According to STERLING SEAGRAVE, in his book, The Marcos Dynasty:

“Ferdinand first tried to discredit Mijares by circulating that he had absconded with government funds, that he was paid $150,000 by the Lopezes to join the anti-Marcos exiles, and that he was staying in the United States because of a liaison with a Filipina exile. (Mijares had left his wife and family in Manila.)

“Meanwhile, Mijares was playing both sides against the middle. After “defecting,” he was secretly accepting money from Ferdinand’s agents in exchange for information about the exiles. The FBI discovered later that Mijares had signed several vouchers for $20,000 and at least one of these signatures was authentic. The February 24, 1975 voucher bore the handwritten notation: “Sir; I received this. Tibo Mijares.”

----

 

Wouldn't you question the credibility of this book knowing this was written by someone who was not scrupulous about who paid him for what, and who received money from the number one oligarch during Marcos' regime: the Lopezes?

 

And why not ALSO read the following books from REAL journalists who were once communists, or had been arrested and jailed during martial law but “WOKE-UP” to being brainwashed by black propaganda?

These journalists/authors are:

----

RIGOBERTO TIGLAO - Journalist and author of DEBUNKED and Colossal Deception

Tiglao was arrested in July 1973, together with nearly all of the Communist Party’s Manila-Rizal Regional Committee, which he headed.

He was incarcerated in five Marcos detention centers for about a year and half, together with his late wife, Raquel, from 1973 to 1974: the Philippine Constabulary’s (PC) 5th Constabulary Unit in Camp Crame; that of the Intelligence Service of the Armed Forces of the Philippines (ISAFP) in Camp Aguinaldo; that of the National Intelligence Coordinating Authority in its headquarters at V. Luna Road in Quezon City (where it still is); as well as the Ipil Youth Rehabilitation Center and the maximum security Youth Rehabilitation Center, both in Fort Bonifacio — the latter two being the biggest during the martial law period.

----

CECILIO ARILLO - Journalist and author of Greed and Betrayal, Breakaway, and A Country Imperiled

Arillo was jailed during the martial law regime for his stories on the irregularities in the sugar industry.

Under the Aquino administration, he was again arrested on Dec. 9, 1987, by troops led by Brig. Gen. Ramon Montaño, and jailed without formal charges; after that, armed men broke into his offices and carted off his documents and other valuables; then in 1990, the Department of Justice, under Sen. Frank Drilon, charged him with rebellion. In 1992, unidentified men machine-gunned his house.

In 1998, under the Ramos administration, the Justice Department, whose chief was Sen. Teofisto Guingona, implicated him in the 1986 kidnapping and double murder of labor leader Rolando Olalia and his driver, Leonor Alay-ay.

The background to all these depredations, as Arillo saw it, were the stories he filed as Manila Times columnist and reporter about the corruption, human rights violations, “gross misgovernance, misgovernance, hatred, and vengeance” of the Marcos, Aquino, and Ramos regimes.

----

 ROD KAPUNAN - Journalist and author of Reflections on Martial Law: Saving the Republic

Kapunan used to be a high-ranking member of the CPP-NPA in the 60s and 70s and a known propagandist during martial law.

When Marcos was "ousted", Kapunan decided to read all the writings about Marcos, books written by Marcos, studied all the agencies created during the Marcos regime, gathered so much data, and realized that what we hear from the media are all propaganda.

Eventually, Kapunan wrote books "to set the record straight".

----

And special mention the following authors:

JUAN PONCE ENRILE - Author of Juan Ponce Enrile, A Memoir

Juan Ponce Enrile’s career spans six presidencies from Ferdinand Marcos to Benigno S. Aquino III, during which the Philippines metamorphosed from a free-wheeling republic into a brutal dictatorship that eventually gave way to a turbulent return to democratic rule.

Sheer longevity, proximity to power and a forceful personality have made Enrile difficult to trivialize, much less ignore. Neither his friends nor his enemies have the power to exaggerate or misrepresent his gifts as well as his faults; they would have to reckon with the man’s personal point of view, here most eloquently told from where he stood and contributed his share to the nation’s narrative.

LEWIS GLEECK - Author of President Aquino: Sainthood Postponed (banned or out of print in the Philippines)

Mr. Gleeck was a member of the Foreign Service of the United States, serving several times in Washington and in Canada, Finland, Sweden, Austria, Iceland, Norway and Pakistan before arriving in the Philippines, where he retired after six years (1962-1969) as Consul General of the American Embassy in Manila.

He then joined the USAID to work on land reform and cooperatives and subsequently to serve for several years as consultant on base-community relations to the U.S. Navy at Subic Bay. He was a long-time editor of the AHC Bulletin and curator of the AHC library

====================================

Sources:

[1] Wikileaks - Declassified Cable - 1975 February 24 https://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/1975MANILA02351_b.html

[2] Ruben Diario (1974) Managing the media Filipino style, Bulletin of Concerned Asian Scholars https://www.tandfonline.com/.../14672715.1974.10413017

[3] Steve Psinakis; A Country Not Even His Own

[4] Sterling Seagrave; The Marcos Dynasty

The bio of these journalists can be found in the preface or introduction of their respective books.

Unquote..."

So nice of you to do such diligence on Mijares, but for the authors you consider "trustworthy" you didn't do the same.

Why is it always the case that pro-Marcos sources are never placed under the same level of intense scrutiny?

Back check all of the sources of Tiglao, Arillo, and Kapunan. See where that rabbit hole leads.

[camiar]

4 minutes ago, JonKartero said:

So nice of you to do such diligence on Mijares, but for the authors you consider "trustworthy" you didn't do the same.

Why is it always the case that pro-Marcos sources are never placed under the same level of intense scrutiny?

Back check all of the sources of Tiglao, Arillo, and Kapunan. See where that rabbit hole leads.

Due diligence on Mijares? I did not.

The post is not mine. It just popped up in my Facebook page. But it's worth re-posting, complete with references.

Your idol Primitivo Mijares has been sufficiently demolished. This, alone, invalidates all your arguments. 

[jubal]

12 hours ago, JonKartero said:

The problem with being "open to all view points" is that unproven, baseless myths - like many of the things repeated here - are suddenly put on the same level as established facts. I reasonably trust my discernment, but as this thread illustrates, the discernment of others is not as trustworthy.

Facts aren't a matter of democracy. They're a matter of record. A million people denying Marcos-era atrocities does not magically make the records at Bantayog ng mga Bayani disappear.

Facts are facts. Truths. Emphasizing them as a matter of record as opposed to being a matter of democracy would be a problematic viewpoint imho.

Phrases such as 'history is written by the victors' comes to mind. 

Allowing everyone to record and be heard is always better than suppressing information. What happens next is a battle of ideas and viewpoints where the winner wins on merit and not because there is no opposition. 

[Mokong Dogyot]

My father used to be a mayor in a small town. Very loyal to Marcos. Then Marcos started stealing billions of dollars. My father withdrew his support. Why would I vote someone who has stolen 10 billion dollars?

[JonKartero]

On 11/17/2021 at 2:39 PM, camiar said:

Due diligence on Mijares? I did not.

The post is not mine. It just popped up in my Facebook page. But it's worth re-posting, complete with references.

Your idol Primitivo Mijares has been sufficiently demolished. This, alone, invalidates all your arguments. 

I have no idols. Only sources of information. Don't project your own bad habits on others. 

Ang harsh naman. "Invalidates all my arguments?" When Mijares is one of many sources of information?

Simple lang naman ang tanong. Character aside, is the information Mijares wrote in his book verifiable by other independent, verifiable, credible sources? And by "independent, verifiable, credible sources" I don't mean your own limited personal experiences. I mean by other people who also recorded history without any agenda other than record-keeping.

Same goes for your sources. Can they withstand scrutiny? On the whole, no. Ultimately, ang source nila are the Marcoses themselves. And the Marcoses have an agenda: to sanitize their name. And now, to return to Malacanang.

[JonKartero]

On 11/18/2021 at 3:16 AM, jubal said:

Facts are facts. Truths. Emphasizing them as a matter of record as opposed to being a matter of democracy would be a problematic viewpoint imho.

Phrases such as 'history is written by the victors' comes to mind. 

Allowing everyone to record and be heard is always better than suppressing information. What happens next is a battle of ideas and viewpoints where the winner wins on merit and not because there is no opposition. 

"Democracy" alone is a horrible way to record history. As Terry Goodkind once wrote, "Gang rape is democracy in action."

As I wrote in my first comment here: History is written by historians. Full stop. There is an academic discipline to it, there is a process to it. Within the context of this discipine, yes "democracy" works, because that sort of democracy relies on answers to the questions, "May sources ka ba? Sino? Credible ba? Verifiable ba?"

The marketplace of ideas was floated on the assumption that people could generally fact from fiction. The Internet as it has evolved does not work that way. The Internet does not care for fact: it cares for search engine optimization, for virality. Social media is a hundred times worse: it cares for its respective algorithms and social bubbles that promote content based on engagement rather than factual accuracy, based on likes and shares over truthfulness. When the platforms are rigged to downplay opposition, merit takes a backseat. What happens then?  

[camiar]

On 11/21/2021 at 10:26 AM, JonKartero said:

"Democracy" alone is a horrible way to record history. As Terry Goodkind once wrote, "Gang rape is democracy in action."

 

And who is Terry Goodkind? 

A writer of fantasies. Bad choice of reference.

Equating heinous crime of gang rape to democracy? 

Now I see where your perverse views are coming from.

[JonKartero]

On 11/24/2021 at 11:50 PM, camiar said:

And who is Terry Goodkind? 

A writer of fantasies. Bad choice of reference.

Equating heinous crime of gang rape to democracy? 

Now I see where your perverse views are coming from.

Ayaw mo sa "writer of fantasies" pero lahat ng pro-Marcos propaganda, tanggap ka lang ng tanggap. 🤣🤣🤣

The biggest difference between fiction authors like Terry Goodkind and the people you refer to as sources is that fiction authors are honest about what they write.

But hey, thanks as usual for admitting, by omission, that you have no response to anything else I wrote in that post. Madalas talaga kayong mga Marcos supporters, ang hilig umiwas sa diretsuhang usapan.

Tell me, naambunan ka na ba ng much-ballyhoed Tallano gold? Pasilip naman diyan!

[camiar]

2 minutes ago, JonKartero said:

Ayaw mo sa "writer of fantasies" pero lahat ng pro-Marcos propaganda, tanggap ka lang ng tanggap. 🤣🤣🤣

The biggest difference between fiction authors like Terry Goodkind and the people you refer to as sources is that fiction authors are honest about what they write.

But hey, thanks as usual for admitting, by omission, that you have no response to anything else I wrote in that post. Madalas talaga kayong mga Marcos supporters, ang hilig umiwas sa diretsuhang usapan.

Tell me, naambunan ka na ba ng much-ballyhoed Tallano gold? Pasilip naman diyan!

I do not have to respond to all of your posts, particularly the irrelevant ones. I won't help you hog the thread with your litany of inane and silly arguments.

Just enjoy yourself reading fantasies of Terry Goodkind.

In the meantime, Marcos will continue dominating the presidential race no matter how much "historical" BS and fantasies you dish out.

[IamGrumpy]

On 11/30/2021 at 7:57 PM, camiar said:

I do not have to respond to all of your posts, particularly the irrelevant ones. I won't help you hog the thread with your litany of inane and silly arguments.

Just enjoy yourself reading fantasies of Terry Goodkind.

In the meantime, Marcos will continue dominating the presidential race no matter how much "historical" BS and fantasies you dish out.

Ahem! Marcos is not dominating the presidential race per se because there is no election yet.  What’s dominating the news right now are the discussions on the truthfulness of his claims in his public resume and that other issue on the disqualification complaint against him. As for the surveys, he MAYBE leading at the moment depending on who is issuing the numbers. Fact is these numbers can be skewed depending on so many factors.  Remember the last presidential election, wasn’t it Grace Poe who was leading all contenders but came up a miserable 3rd or 4th when the last ballot was counted.  I’ve been through so many presidents now and I can speak based on my lifelong experiences (born early 60s).  I will not argue with you on what you think you know and understand about life during the Marcos regime. All I can say is it not a pleasant life during that time. 

[camiar]

13 hours ago, IamGrumpy said:

Ahem! Marcos is not dominating the presidential race per se because there is no election yet.  What’s dominating the news right now are the discussions on the truthfulness of his claims in his public resume and that other issue on the disqualification complaint against him. As for the surveys, he MAYBE leading at the moment depending on who is issuing the numbers. Fact is these numbers can be skewed depending on so many factors.  Remember the last presidential election, wasn’t it Grace Poe who was leading all contenders but came up a miserable 3rd or 4th when the last ballot was counted.  I’ve been through so many presidents now and I can speak based on my lifelong experiences (born early 60s).  I will not argue with you on what you think you know and understand about life during the Marcos regime. All I can say is it not a pleasant life during that time. 

Hanggang ngayon nasa denial stage pa rin kayo.

Voters' preference for BBM rose from 20% to 40% by the time he filed his candidacy. Then up again to 50% after the BBM-Sara tandem was announced. 

Recently, informal surveys shows the effects of BBM-Sara caravans and awareness sorties bringing preference to at least 60%.

Pulse-Asia and SWS seem to be holding back their December survey results. Survey analysts speculate it could be because they have to re-validate the results because pro-BBM preference is too high at more than 70% while Leni's numbers went from 20% down to 10% !!!

[IamGrumpy]

Umm deny what? Apologies but I can only speak for myself.

im not privy to where you are getting your numbers. In my experience survey numbers can always be skewed. I’ve done some little research and came across a summary of surveys done by Manila Bulletin. In some of those polls BBM came out the leader while in other cases it was either Leni or Isko. What’s probably impressive is the fact that in the other poll surveys that BBM did not lead he was always a close second. I didn’t see any 82% figure if I may say. 

So there you have it. There’s no denying here but actual poll figures printed by Manila Bulletin. You can check their website if you want to verify. A simple rejoinder, surveys doesn’t make a President. From now till the last ballot is counted a lot of things CAN, MAY and DO change. Let’s see who will sit in the fabled palace of Malacanan by then.

For now congratulations to BBM for being elected as the next Philippines president via poll surveys.😊😊😊

[JonKartero]

On 12/7/2021 at 11:13 PM, IamGrumpy said:

Umm deny what? Apologies but I can only speak for myself.

im not privy to where you are getting your numbers. In my experience survey numbers can always be skewed. I’ve done some little research and came across a summary of surveys done by Manila Bulletin. In some of those polls BBM came out the leader while in other cases it was either Leni or Isko. What’s probably impressive is the fact that in the other poll surveys that BBM did not lead he was always a close second. I didn’t see any 82% figure if I may say. 

So there you have it. There’s no denying here but actual poll figures printed by Manila Bulletin. You can check their website if you want to verify. A simple rejoinder, surveys doesn’t make a President. From now till the last ballot is counted a lot of things CAN, MAY and DO change. Let’s see who will sit in the fabled palace of Malacanan by then.

For now congratulations to BBM for being elected as the next Philippines president via poll surveys.😊😊😊

Recent history has shown that the front runner throughout October-February/March isn't always the winner nga naman. Villar and Poe come to mind. Some people are *ahem* too excited about survey results.

[camiar]

On 12/7/2021 at 11:13 PM, IamGrumpy said:

Umm deny what? Apologies but I can only speak for myself.

im not privy to where you are getting your numbers. In my experience survey numbers can always be skewed. I’ve done some little research and came across a summary of surveys done by Manila Bulletin. In some of those polls BBM came out the leader while in other cases it was either Leni or Isko. What’s probably impressive is the fact that in the other poll surveys that BBM did not lead he was always a close second. I didn’t see any 82% figure if I may say. 

So there you have it. There’s no denying here but actual poll figures printed by Manila Bulletin. You can check their website if you want to verify. A simple rejoinder, surveys doesn’t make a President. From now till the last ballot is counted a lot of things CAN, MAY and DO change. Let’s see who will sit in the fabled palace of Malacanan by then.

For now congratulations to BBM for being elected as the next Philippines president via poll surveys.😊😊😊

 

9 hours ago, JonKartero said:

Recent history has shown that the front runner throughout October-February/March isn't always the winner nga naman. Villar and Poe come to mind. Some people are *ahem* too excited about survey results.

Let me give you a hint. Don't just look at the numbers, which obviously point to strong dominating trend in voter preference.

Look further into the statistical analysis. What's the percentage of the undecided?  How much of the undecided does Leni's camp et al have to get to their side to make up the difference? 

And you're only looking at the market votes, which, as surveys indicate, is already at least 60% pro-BBM/Sara.

Once the command votes (the votes influenced by the local political machineries) are factored in, it's done. Only covert intervention by foreign superpower(s) can derail the popular mandate. And you think BBM/Du30 camps don't know how to counter that?

[JonKartero]

Even Publicius data (which is inherently ??? due to their use of "purposive sampling") shows a decrease of around 5% preference for Marcos and an equivalent increase for Robredo. All other candidates are have statistically negligible movement. It's a question of sustainability. 

"Only covert intervention by foreign superpower(s) can derail the popular mandate." Uh, sure, if you say so.

" And you think BBM/Du30 camps don't know how to counter that?" Bold of you to assume that they are in fact on the same page. Then again your comment was made before Duterte and Go withdrew their respective candidacies. I'm sure you'll find a way to spin it and make it something positive for Marcos and Inday, so please go right on ahead.

[lee sawyer]

On 12/12/2021 at 11:34 PM, JonKartero said:

Recent history has shown that the front runner throughout October-February/March isn't always the winner nga naman. Villar and Poe come to mind. Some people are *ahem* too excited about survey results.

Speaking of recent history, has there been a presidential candidate who had a commanding lead like BBM's this early? 

[plug]

Nang natapos ang term ni Abnoy natunaw din ang yellow kaya wala na rin. Mga basang papel na lang. Ang naiwan ay ang katotohanan na sila ang nagpalayas sa diktador. Bakit nga naman siya at kanyang pamilya ay palalayasin sa palasyong kanyang ipinagawa. Litong lito at wala sa matinong pagiisip kaya hindi niya akalain na sa Hawaii siya dinala. Kaya itong anak magtatangkang mabalik sa palasyong ipinagawa ng kanyang ama. History may repeats itself.

[lee sawyer]

I guess some people have a warped version of history. 😂

[JonKartero]

On 12/17/2021 at 3:07 PM, lee sawyer said:

Speaking of recent history, has there been a presidential candidate who had a commanding lead like BBM's this early? 

Nope. But BBM also had a commanding lead up until election day in 2016. We all saw what happened then.

[lee sawyer]

On 1/11/2022 at 2:42 PM, JonKartero said:

Nope. But BBM also had a commanding lead up until election day in 2016. We all saw what happened then.

A 5% lead in the surveys leading to election day isn't exactly commanding. You can label a 30%-40% lead, depending on which current survey you're looking at as commanding. Yes, we all saw what happened. Massive cheating and this is evidenced by the ongoing electoral protest. 

[lee sawyer]

On 12/16/2021 at 12:09 PM, JonKartero said:

Even Publicius data (which is inherently ??? due to their use of "purposive sampling") shows a decrease of around 5% preference for Marcos and an equivalent increase for Robredo. All other candidates are have statistically negligible movement. It's a question of sustainability. 

"Only covert intervention by foreign superpower(s) can derail the popular mandate." Uh, sure, if you say so.

" And you think BBM/Du30 camps don't know how to counter that?" Bold of you to assume that they are in fact on the same page. Then again your comment was made before Duterte and Go withdrew their respective candidacies. I'm sure you'll find a way to spin it and make it something positive for Marcos and Inday, so please go right on ahead.

Where did you get the 5% decrease for BBM? In Publicus Asia's 2021 Quarter 3 survey, BBM got a 49.3% survey rating and in the 2021 Quarter 4 survey, BBM's survey rating increased to 51.9% so that's a 2.6% increase. Meanwhile, Robredo got a 21.3% survey rating in the 2021 Quarter 3 survey and decreased to 20.2% in the 2021 Quarter 4 survey or a decrease of 1.1%. Where are you getting your figures? 

Edited January 19, 2022 by lee sawyer

[JonKartero]

14 hours ago, lee sawyer said:

A 5% lead in the surveys leading to election day isn't exactly commanding. You can label a 30%-40% lead, depending on which current survey you're looking at as commanding. Yes, we all saw what happened. Massive cheating and this is evidenced by the ongoing electoral protest. 

"Ongoing"

Um, tapos na yung electoral protest. Talo si Boingboing.

A complaint of cheating is not itself evidence of cheating. That's not how complaints work. Convictions that have achieved finality, however, is sufficient basis to say that a person is a criminal.

[JonKartero]

On 12/27/2021 at 3:05 PM, plug said:

Nang natapos ang term ni Abnoy natunaw din ang yellow kaya wala na rin. Mga basang papel na lang. Ang naiwan ay ang katotohanan na sila ang nagpalayas sa diktador. Bakit nga naman siya at kanyang pamilya ay palalayasin sa palasyong kanyang ipinagawa. Litong lito at wala sa matinong pagiisip kaya hindi niya akalain na sa Hawaii siya dinala. Kaya itong anak magtatangkang mabalik sa palasyong ipinagawa ng kanyang ama. History may repeats itself.

Ikuwento mo yan sa mga taong nilusob ang Malacanang habang umeeskapo si Marcos. Tignan mo kung di ka pagtawanan.