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Antonio Trillanes: Criticism And Controversies

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#41 mamipokodiapers

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Posted 12 September 2018 - 10:01 PM

Beyond personality politics, huwag talaga dapat mag-astang diktador si Duterte na pipikon-pikon sa mga kritiko niya.



#42 stealthfighter

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Posted 12 September 2018 - 10:49 PM

Not a fan of Trillanes, pero maling mali si Duterte dito. Napaka-pangit din na dahilan na hindi nila mahanap  yung mga documents na submitted ni Trililing dahil ibig sabihin lang nun nasa kanila ang pagkukulang. Ang masama pa dito, magiging precedent siya sa mga susunod na presidente pag may kaaway sa pulitica. Hypothetically, yung susunod na presidente pwede bawiin din yung mga pardon kina GMA at Erap tapos sasabihin "hindi namin mahanap ang mga required documents nila eh." Talaga nga naman only in the Philippines kung saan incompetence and stupidity are a valid excuse. 



#43 CobyKarl

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Posted 12 September 2018 - 11:05 PM

Duterteis the most powerful man in the Philippines. Trillanes is his critic. Trillanes accuses him of amassing hundreds of millions. Hes asking him to sign a bank waiver. His son Polong is accused by Duterte of drugs connection. He wants gim to show his tattoo.

#44 Bolj

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Posted 12 September 2018 - 11:54 PM

Not a fan of Trillanes, pero maling mali si Duterte dito. Napaka-pangit din na dahilan na hindi nila mahanap  yung mga documents na submitted ni Trililing dahil ibig sabihin lang nun nasa kanila ang pagkukulang. Ang masama pa dito, magiging precedent siya sa mga susunod na presidente pag may kaaway sa pulitica. Hypothetically, yung susunod na presidente pwede bawiin din yung mga pardon kina GMA at Erap tapos sasabihin "hindi namin mahanap ang mga required documents nila eh." Talaga nga naman only in the Philippines kung saan incompetence and stupidity are a valid excuse.


I suggest you study the case well dahil 1 of 4 issues lang yang sinabi mong d mahanap ng DND ang document ni trillanes.

#45 stealthfighter

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Posted 13 September 2018 - 12:16 AM

I suggest you study the case well dahil 1 of 4 issues lang yang sinabi mong d mahanap ng DND ang document ni trillanes.

 

I suggest you read my post well. Ang point ko lang, it's a dangerous precedent na pwedeng gawin ng kahit sinong next president para patahimikin ang mga kalaban nila sa pulitika. All they have to do is take it from the Duterte playbook.



#46 Bolj

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Posted 13 September 2018 - 01:14 PM

I suggest you read my post well. Ang point ko lang, it's a dangerous precedent na pwedeng gawin ng kahit sinong next president para patahimikin ang mga kalaban nila sa pulitika. All they have to do is take it from the Duterte playbook.


You won't be worrying about the precedent kung kinumpleto mo ang details ng case. Ang tanong alam mo ba? Post mo kung alam mo para wla tayong problema

#47 stealthfighter

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Posted 13 September 2018 - 01:29 PM

You won't be worrying about the precedent kung kinumpleto mo ang details ng case. Ang tanong alam mo ba? Post mo kung alam mo para wla tayong problema


Oh sige ha:

https://www.rappler....illanes-amnesty

http://www.gmanetwor...-lawyers/story/

#48 Bolj

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Posted 13 September 2018 - 02:06 PM

Oh sige ha: https://www.rappler....illanes-amnestyhttp://www.gmanetwor...-lawyers/story/


Post mo nga wag ka maglagay ng link maski ilang link man yan kung d mo nainTindihan mga yan wlang saysay yan.

#49 stealthfighter

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Posted 13 September 2018 - 02:14 PM

Post mo nga wag ka maglagay ng link maski ilang link man yan kung d mo nainTindihan mga yan wlang saysay yan.


Yan ang problema sayo. Link nga lang ang binasa mo. Ang dami mo palang alam sa case pero ikaw hindi ka makapagbigay ng specifics. Wait lang ha. Gagawin ko sinabi mo...

#50 juan t

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Posted 13 September 2018 - 02:31 PM

You won't be worrying about the precedent kung kinumpleto mo ang details ng case. Ang tanong alam mo ba? Post mo kung alam mo para wla tayong problema


This is not just a simple case of completing the details. This is about the president trying to invent a technicality. Mismong mga judges at lawyers nga hindi alam kung legal yung ginawa ni Duterte eh, what more yung ordinaryong tao. Technicalities are the tools often used by criminals. It is a way for them to skirt the intent of a law.

Edited by juan t, 13 September 2018 - 02:33 PM.


#51 Bolj

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Posted 13 September 2018 - 02:37 PM

Yan ang problema sayo. Link nga lang ang binasa mo. Ang dami mo palang alam sa case pero ikaw hindi ka makapagbigay ng specifics. Wait lang ha. Gagawin ko sinabi mo...


Yan din problema mo, alam mo pala "kuno" na madami ang details tapos hindi mo linagay lahat...anu yan selective masyado? Para magandang pakinggan?

Sige gawin mo, sa una palang dapat kinumpleto mo na yan

#52 stealthfighter

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Posted 13 September 2018 - 02:56 PM

Post mo nga wag ka maglagay ng link maski ilang link man yan kung d mo nainTindihan mga yan wlang saysay yan.

 

What grounds does Duterte cite for voiding the amnesty? Duterte's proclamation states that the amnesty is void because Trillanes never applied for it anyway and never admitted to his guilt. The Armed Forces of the Philippines, which keeps all the relevant documents, issued a certification on August 30 that "there is no available copy" of Trillanes' application. However, media reports and videos documented Trillanes applying for amnesty in January 2011.   https://www.rappler.com/nation/211138-summary-duterte-voiding-trillanes-amnesty

 

 

Yan ang malaking problema dito, well-documented na nag-submit ng requirements si Trililing pero yung administration pinipilit na wala daw despite the proof. Again it's a point taken against them as it highlights their incompetence although that is more likely intentional. 

 

 

Can Duterte really do this? Section 19, Article VII, of the 1987 Constitution states that the President has the “power to grant amnesty with the concurrence of a majority of all the Members of the Congress.” But it is silent on the requirement to revoke amnesty. Justice Secretary Menardo Guevarra said there's no need for Congress approval because the grant of amnesty itself is considered void.   https://www.rappler.com/nation/211138-summary-duterte-voiding-trillanes-amnesty

 

 

Ito pa ang isang problema, wala talagang specific due process na nakalagay sa batas para bawiin ang amnesty. Naisip lang bigla ni Duterte/Calida na mag-magic pagdating sa documentation ("nawala daw ang mga submitted requirements") para sabihin na void ang amnesty ni Trililing. Ni hindi nakalagay sa batas na pwedeng bawiin ang amnesty and for a good reason, pwede syang gamitin na political weapon by any sitting president against critics and opponents alike.

 

 

 

President Rodrigo Duterte earlier claimed that the previous administration committed "usurpation of authority" in granting amnesty to Trillanes, a staunch critic of the president.

"It cannot be further delegated to other officials. It is a presidential prerogative so the position of the president is that only the president should have signed the order of amnesty," Roque said in a press briefing Monday.

Read more at https://www.philstar.com/headlines/2018/09/10/1850320/fact-check-palace-claims-usurpation-authority-committed-granting-trillanes-amnesty#adGu2jOiwWI4w5i6.99

 

 

Ito ang pinipilit nila na mali din. Pakibasa po:

 

 

Proclamation No. 75, the presidential order that granted amnesty to those involved in the Oakwood Mutiny, the Marines Stand-off, and the Manila Peninsula Siege, including former Navy officer Trillanes, was signed by Aquino.

But it assigned the receipt and processing of the amnesty applications to an ad hoc committee of the Department of National Defense (DND). The department's "final decisions or determination" were made appealable to the Office of the President.

Likewise sought for his interpretation, constitutional law expert Antonio La Viña agrees that department secretaries are the president's alter egos, whose acts "are the acts of the president" unless their authority is withdrawn.

In Trillanes' case, he said Aquino "validly delegated" the approval of applications to the designated official, in this case Gazmin, who headed the DND during the Aquino administration.

"That's normal. That's called qualified political agency," La Viña said in a text message. He explained that the Cabinet members' agency is "qualified" because the president can also choose to exercise the power himself.

"There are also powers he cannot delegate, like proclaiming martial law and an amnesty. But in the case of the latter, the processing of applications can clearly be delegated," he said.

While the Constitution vests executive power in the president, La Viña asked: "Does that mean he alone has that power and every government document must have his signature? No. That is foolish and would make the presidency an even more impossible job than it already is."

 

Ito ang PINAKAMALAKING KATANGAHAN DITO:

 

Malacañang on Thursday said the other amnesties granted by previous presidents remain valid unless questioned before the courts, even as it admitted that the government only sought to review the amnesty granted to opposition senator Antonio Trillanes IV.

Presidential Spokesperson Harry Roque said he was not aware of how past presidents granted amnesties, but certainly the one given to Trillanes, a fierce critic of President Rodrigo Duterte, had caught the eye of Solicitor General Jose Calida.

He said even if the other amnesties are invalid because they underwent the same process as Trillanes’ did, “unless it is actually questioned, it is entitled to respect.”

“Sorry na lang si Senator Trillanes, pinag-aralan siya ni Solicitor General Calida at lumalabas na depektibo talaga ang kanyang amnesty​. Ano'ng​ resulta? Iyong sa kanya lang ang maapektuhan dahil iyan lang ang up for review ng Regional Trial Court sa Makati,” Roque said in a Palace press

briefing.https://news.abs-cbn.com/news/09/13/18/sorry-na-lang-si-trillanes-palace-says-other-amnesties-valid-unless-questioned

 

 

Reading between the lines, very obvious na pinipersonal si Trililing. Sana kung ginawa nila yun na kasama lahat ng Oakwood mutineers at pati yung mga pardon/amnesty na binigay kina Erap at iba pang mga dating pulitiko, matutuwa pa ako dyan. Kaso lang ang ngyari dito, kulang na lang sabihin ni Harry Roque, "SORRY KA TRILILING, KAAWAY KA NI DUTERTE KAYA SAYO LANG APPLICABLE ANG BATAS NA YAN. Yan ang sinasabi ko na delikadong precedent para sa mga susunod na presidente. Yung mag-iimbento ng technicalities para lang maikulong ang critics. 


Edited by stealthfighter, 13 September 2018 - 03:00 PM.


#53 Bolj

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Posted 13 September 2018 - 03:15 PM

This is not just a simple case of completing the details. This is about the president trying to invent a technicality. Mismong mga judges at lawyers nga hindi alam kung legal yung ginawa ni Duterte eh, what more yung ordinaryong tao. Technicalities are the tools often used by criminals. It is a way for them to skirt the intent of a law.


-Correct thats why e consider lahat ng details before mag conclude.
-The same president that invented a technicality on sereno right? Kamusta si Sereno?
-tama ka mismong judges and lawyers (obviously not all of them) hindi alam kung legal, the as hindi din nila alam kung Illegal.
-thats why kung ordinaryong tao ka wag ka magmagaling dyan and mag obvious obvious pa na alam kung sino ang mali.
-saang case study mo yang nakuha about "technicalities often used by criminals"?

#54 Bolj

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Posted 13 September 2018 - 03:21 PM

What grounds does Duterte cite for voiding the amnesty? Duterte's proclamation states that the amnesty is void because Trillanes never applied for it anyway and never admitted to his guilt. The Armed Forces of the Philippines, which keeps all the relevant documents, issued a certification on August 30 that "there is no available copy" of Trillanes' application. However, media reports and videos documented Trillanes applying for amnesty in January 2011.   [/size]https://www.rappler.com/nation/211138-summary-duterte-voiding-trillanes-amnesty
 
 
Yan ang malaking problema dito, well-documented na nag-submit ng requirements si Trililing pero yung administration pinipilit na wala daw despite the proof. Again it's a point taken against them as it highlights their incompetence although that is more likely intentional. 
 
 
Can Duterte really do this? [/size]Section 19, Article VII, of the 1987 Constitution states that the President has the [/size]“power to grant amnesty with the concurrence of a majority of all the Members of the Congress.”[/size] [/size]But it is silent on the requirement to revoke amnesty. Justice Secretary Menardo Guevarra said there's no need for Congress approval because the grant of amnesty itself is considered void.   https://www.rappler.com/nation/211138-summary-duterte-voiding-trillanes-amnesty[/size]
 
 
Ito pa ang isang problema, wala talagang specific due process na nakalagay sa batas para bawiin ang amnesty. Naisip lang bigla ni Duterte/Calida na mag-magic pagdating sa documentation ("nawala daw ang mga submitted requirements") para sabihin na void ang amnesty ni Trililing. Ni hindi nakalagay sa batas na pwedeng bawiin ang amnesty and for a good reason, pwede syang gamitin na political weapon by any sitting president against critics and opponents alike.
 
 
 
President Rodrigo Duterte earlier claimed that the previous administration committed "usurpation of authority" in granting amnesty to Trillanes, a staunch critic of the president.
"It cannot be further delegated to other officials. It is a presidential prerogative so the position of the president is that only the president should have signed the order of amnesty," Roque said in a press briefing Monday.
Read more at https://www.philstar.com/headlines/2018/09/10/1850320/fact-check-palace-claims-usurpation-authority-committed-granting-trillanes-amnesty#adGu2jOiwWI4w5i6.99[/size]
 
 
Ito ang pinipilit nila na mali din. Pakibasa po:
 
 
Proclamation No. 75, the presidential order that granted amnesty to those involved in the Oakwood Mutiny, the Marines Stand-off, and the Manila Peninsula Siege, including former Navy officer Trillanes, was signed by Aquino.
But it assigned the receipt and processing of the amnesty applications to an ad hoc committee of the Department of National Defense (DND). The department's "final decisions or determination" were made appealable to the Office of the President.
Likewise sought for his interpretation, constitutional law expert Antonio La Viña agrees that department secretaries are the president's alter egos, whose acts "are the acts of the president" unless their authority is withdrawn.
In Trillanes' case, he said Aquino "validly delegated" the approval of applications to the designated official, in this case Gazmin, who headed the DND during the Aquino administration.
"That's normal. That's called qualified political agency," La Viña said in a text message. He explained that the Cabinet members' agency is "qualified" because the president can also choose to exercise the power himself.
"There are also powers he cannot delegate, like proclaiming martial law and an amnesty. But in the case of the latter, the processing of applications can clearly be delegated," he said.
While the Constitution vests executive power in the president, La Viña asked: "Does that mean he alone has that power and every government document must have his signature? No. That is foolish and would make the presidency an even more impossible job than it already is."
 
Ito ang PINAKAMALAKING KATANGAHAN DITO:
 
Malacañang on Thursday said the other amnesties granted by previous presidents remain valid unless questioned before the courts, even as it admitted that the government only sought to review the amnesty granted to opposition senator Antonio Trillanes IV.
Presidential Spokesperson Harry Roque said he was not aware of how past presidents granted amnesties, but certainly the one given to Trillanes, a fierce critic of President Rodrigo Duterte, had caught the eye of Solicitor General Jose Calida.
He said even if the other amnesties are invalid because they underwent the same process as Trillanes’ did, “unless it is actually questioned, it is entitled to respect.”
“Sorry na lang si Senator Trillanes, pinag-aralan siya ni Solicitor General Calida at lumalabas na depektibo talaga ang kanyang amnesty​. Ano'ng​ resulta? Iyong sa kanya lang ang maapektuhan dahil iyan lang ang up for review ng Regional Trial Court sa Makati,” Roque said in a Palace press
briefing.https://news.abs-cbn.com/news/09/13/18/sorry-na-lang-si-trillanes-palace-says-other-amnesties-valid-unless-questioned
 
 
Reading between the lines, very obvious na pinipersonal si Trililing. Sana kung ginawa nila yun na kasama lahat ng Oakwood mutineers at pati yung mga pardon/amnesty na binigay kina Erap at iba pang mga dating pulitiko, matutuwa pa ako dyan. Kaso lang ang ngyari dito, kulang na lang sabihin ni Harry Roque, "SORRY KA TRILILING, KAAWAY KA NI DUTERTE KAYA SAYO LANG APPLICABLE ANG BATAS NA YAN. Yan ang sinasabi ko na delikadong precedent para sa mga susunod na presidente. Yung mag-iimbento ng technicalities para lang maikulong ang critics. 


Ganda ng pagkasulat mo bro.

Well this post of yours sums it up, your knowledge about the issue that i won't further comment on. With limited understanding on the issue i mean. Good day and have fun.

#55 haroots2

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Posted 13 September 2018 - 03:29 PM

Yan ang problema sayo. Link nga lang ang binasa mo. Ang dami mo palang alam sa case pero ikaw hindi ka makapagbigay ng specifics. Wait lang ha. Gagawin ko sinabi mo...

 

Alam mo ba kung  pirmado ni Pnoy yung form na inapply ni Trillanes?



#56 stealthfighter

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Posted 13 September 2018 - 03:31 PM

Ganda ng pagkasulat mo bro.
Well this post of yours sums it up, your knowledge about the issue that i won't further comment on. With limited understanding on the issue i mean. Good day and have fun.


OK

Edited by stealthfighter, 13 September 2018 - 03:40 PM.


#57 johncarter44

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Posted 13 September 2018 - 05:58 PM

 

Alam mo ba kung  pirmado ni Pnoy yung form na inapply ni Trillanes?

 

Hindi kailangan. Lahat ng mga dating Presidente dinelegate ang pagproseso ng amnesty applications sa DND secretary. Ang importante, yung Proclamation 75 na nagbigay ng amnesty ay pirmado ng Presidente.



#58 CobyKarl

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Posted 14 September 2018 - 05:54 AM

Di nman na kailangan pa gumawa ng paraan kung gusto ipakulong si Trillanes. Si Trillanes na mismo nagsabi na voluntary sya magpapakulong kung mapatunayan na walang hidden wealth si Duterte just sign the bank waiver.

#59 haroots2

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Posted 14 September 2018 - 11:13 AM

 

Hindi kailangan. Lahat ng mga dating Presidente dinelegate ang pagproseso ng amnesty applications sa DND secretary. Ang importante, yung Proclamation 75 na nagbigay ng amnesty ay pirmado ng Presidente.

 

Really?  Wala lang nag question nung mga ginawa dati.  And even the SCJs would surely have different opinions on this.



#60 johncarter44

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Posted 14 September 2018 - 04:31 PM

 

Really?  Wala lang nag question nung mga ginawa dati.  And even the SCJs would surely have different opinions on this.

 

Except the issue of Gazmin signing the Cert of Amnesty instead of Aquino was not raised in Proc 572, so the Supreme Court Justices won't get an opportunity to make a ruling on it. 







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