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1. When I mention the incoherence about atheists using satanic/demonic cliches and their atheism, the context was analogous to anti-American student activists eating at McDo. I further elucidated that with an anti-racist person label calling himself Negroboy. Now anyone with half-a-brain would have picked up that the incoherence lies in the irony of using a label that's supposedly part and parcel of what you are against. Now, to remove my statement from this context and argue it in the vacuum of space is clearly just a strawman fallacy. And to do that over and over again is simply ad nuseaum. --- Alvin.teng

 

The basic point that you keep on missing is that an atheist using demon as a username is as ironic as a Christian using Wednesday in his calendar. Which is to say it is not ironic.

 

So what if it is part and parcel of religion (an unsupported assertion)? Why can't an atheist make use of the concept? It's not as if atheists claims that demons actually exist in real life. If a Christian uses a username like "Zeus_thunderbolt", it's not as if he actually believes in Zeus. It simply means he likes the concept or thinks it is cool. Nothing ironic or incoherent there.

 

 

What's worse is your counterargument that the word negro is not racially offensive because one of the greatest African-American leader used it in his speech! Now that's being stupid beyond any known measure. Clearly, speeches are made to invoke emotions. He wanted to rally the African-Americans to embrace their heritage and be united. That's why he addressed them as Negros. Context! Context! Context! He is using the term in a rhetorical sense - as a literary weapon! For you to then swallow this as a literal truth that there's nothing wrong with the word Negro clearly demonstrates how you're no better than INC ministers who'd claim Manalo is the 'prophesied prophet of the end times' as the bible 'clearly says the prophet would come from 'malayong Silangan'. That's how literal they can be. And that's just what you've done here. Now, since you are fond of evidences, just follow my advice. Go to downtown Boston and call an African-American a Negro. If you're still standing after you've said that, then that's my evidence that I was wrong to think that such a word is racially offensive. Come on. Do it. Or wait, maybe you haven't been to the US? Err, maybe that's why you're ignorant of how charged this word truly is. ---Alvin.teng

 

I clearly recognized that alot of people consider it offensive today. So you are attacking a strawman. The main point that went over your head is this: If an African-American, who identifies as Negro, rants against racism then there is nothing incoherent there. Therefore your analogy fails.

 

You are ignoring the simple reason why Martin Luther King Jr. used the term Negro: it was not considered as an offensive term back then

 

http://www.amazon.com/Famous-American-Negroes-biographies-people/dp/B0007FTFYK

 

In case you are too lazy to click on that link, it is a book written by Langston Hughes. The guy had absolutely no problem using the term Negro.

 

Some older African-Americans (the ones who actually saw the Civil Rights movement) still prefer using the term Negro (like the writer I linked in an earlier post). So if these guys want to rant against racism then there is nothing incoherent there.

 

So once more your comparison is falling flat. Negro, as it was used in the speech, was meant to be taken literally (i.e. it refers to the African American population of the United States), the far east thing of INC is a convenient excuse used by Manalo to claim he has access to divinity.

 

 

As for UP activism, are you from UP? I guess not. What's the proof that the movement was indeed serious about getting rid of anything American? Err, haven't you heard of students going to the mountains to become hardcore commies? No, they don't dine at McDo. Well, they attacked the US embassy though. You must have lived a sheltered life tsk tsk tsk. Do you live in your mama's basement and hasn't seen the world?--- Alvin.teng

 

Which part of the Philippine communist ideological position involves removing all influences of American culture, where do they say they want to deport all Americans? Why are they still using English if they are so hellbent in getting American culture out? The US embassy is representative of the US government here in the country, so citing this actually supports my claim that what is protested is the action and influence of the US Government.

 

Also I have to say, your insults suck ass. Try better. At least give me something I can use elsewhere

Edited by Spanner_works
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Need a little help from you guys in terms of understanding my stand in my faith:

 

I was raised as a christian and for the longest time i blindly believed in my church's ideologies. But as of recent, i'm starting to think that everything is not what it seems and that the idea of a supreme being that will take notice of a tiny speck in the face of existence (humans) is starting to elude me.

I still believe in Jesus' teachings and in most of the Christian faith, but I'm also starting to believe in a myriad of gods and pantheism, yet I also believe that what we know as humans is limited and we are yet, if impossible, to comprehend things beyond the material realm. I also believe in Galileo's quote that science and mathematics are the language in which God has written the laws of the universe.

 

Can I still call myself a Christian, or am I an agnostic that hopes for a god to believe in?

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Need a little help from you guys in terms of understanding my stand in my faith:

I was raised as a christian and for the longest time i blindly believed in my church's ideologies. But as of recent, i'm starting to think that everything is not what it seems and that the idea of a supreme being that will take notice of a tiny speck in the face of existence (humans) is starting to elude me.

I still believe in Jesus' teachings and in most of the Christian faith, but I'm also starting to believe in a myriad of gods and pantheism, yet I also believe that what we know as humans is limited and we are yet, if impossible, to comprehend things beyond the material realm. I also believe in Galileo's quote that science and mathematics are the language in which God has written the laws of the universe.

Can I still call myself a Christian, or am I an agnostic that hopes for a god to believe in?

I will move this post of yours to "Agnostics and Atheists" thread as this relates more of non-religious concept than otherwise.

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Need a little help from you guys in terms of understanding my stand in my faith:

 

I was raised as a christian and for the longest time i blindly believed in my church's ideologies. But as of recent, i'm starting to think that everything is not what it seems and that the idea of a supreme being that will take notice of a tiny speck in the face of existence (humans) is starting to elude me.

I still believe in Jesus' teachings and in most of the Christian faith, but I'm also starting to believe in a myriad of gods and pantheism, yet I also believe that what we know as humans is limited and we are yet, if impossible, to comprehend things beyond the material realm. I also believe in Galileo's quote that science and mathematics are the language in which God has written the laws of the universe.

 

Can I still call myself a Christian, or am I an agnostic that hopes for a god to believe in?

 

If you are a Pantheist then you are not a Christian. Satan invented polytheism to set aside monotheism. Zeus, Baal and other mythological figures are nothing but faces of Satan himself.

Edited by Ignatum
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If you are a Pantheist then you are not a Christian. Satan invented polytheism to set aside monotheism. Zeus, Baal and other mythological figures are nothing but faces of Satan himself.

 

He sounded like an Agnostic Theist. And it is interesting to note about his inclination to believe in Pantheism, a doctrine that equates God with the forces and laws of universe. The principle of Theistic satanism may hold a variety of beliefs such as pantheistic, polytheistic, and/or gnostic-based theologies.

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Need a little help from you guys in terms of understanding my stand in my faith:

 

I was raised as a christian and for the longest time i blindly believed in my church's ideologies. But as of recent, i'm starting to think that everything is not what it seems and that the idea of a supreme being that will take notice of a tiny speck in the face of existence (humans) is starting to elude me.

I still believe in Jesus' teachings and in most of the Christian faith, but I'm also starting to believe in a myriad of gods and pantheism, yet I also believe that what we know as humans is limited and we are yet, if impossible, to comprehend things beyond the material realm. I also believe in Galileo's quote that science and mathematics are the language in which God has written the laws of the universe.

 

Can I still call myself a Christian, or am I an agnostic that hopes for a god to believe in?

 

Well, it's difficult to say if you're still a Christian unless you specify which doctrine you are now starting doubt. There are alot of Christian denominations but at the minimum you must believe that there is one God and that a specific individual called Jesus was the Son of God, and is the savior of humanity, the Christ/Messiah prophesied in the Old Testament.

 

 

 

If you are a Pantheist then you are not a Christian. Satan invented polytheism to set aside monotheism. Zeus, Baal and other mythological figures are nothing but faces of Satan himself.

Huh. What does polytheism have anything to do with Pantheism?

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Need a little help from you guys in terms of understanding my stand in my faith:

 

I was raised as a christian and for the longest time i blindly believed in my church's ideologies. But as of recent, i'm starting to think that everything is not what it seems and that the idea of a supreme being that will take notice of a tiny speck in the face of existence (humans) is starting to elude me.

I still believe in Jesus' teachings and in most of the Christian faith, but I'm also starting to believe in a myriad of gods and pantheism, yet I also believe that what we know as humans is limited and we are yet, if impossible, to comprehend things beyond the material realm. I also believe in Galileo's quote that science and mathematics are the language in which God has written the laws of the universe.

 

Can I still call myself a Christian, or am I an agnostic that hopes for a god to believe in?

 

Don't worry about it. We don't wake up one morning and suddenly become one or the other. It takes a great deal of reflection over a long period. Einstein, Lincoln and Beethoven agrees with you at some point in their life. They're not evil satanists and neither are you. You said you believe in Jesus' teachings and in most of the Christian faith. That's good enough for me but probably not good enough for others. What we think of you and how we label you are irrelevant. It's the people you care about that matters. If some of them think you don't belong in their church, well tough luck for us we can't force ourselves to believe what we don't believe.

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • MODERATOR

Need a little help from you guys in terms of understanding my stand in my faith:

 

I was raised as a christian and for the longest time i blindly believed in my church's ideologies. But as of recent, i'm starting to think that everything is not what it seems and that the idea of a supreme being that will take notice of a tiny speck in the face of existence (humans) is starting to elude me.

I still believe in Jesus' teachings and in most of the Christian faith, but I'm also starting to believe in a myriad of gods and pantheism, yet I also believe that what we know as humans is limited and we are yet, if impossible, to comprehend things beyond the material realm. I also believe in Galileo's quote that science and mathematics are the language in which God has written the laws of the universe.

 

Can I still call myself a Christian, or am I an agnostic that hopes for a god to believe in?

 

We have the same dilemma dude. I was born and raised as a Catholic. Studied in Catholic schools a few years in elementary and whole 4 years in the College. I even became a member and then an office of a religious group in our university. I do believe in God but not the god of Catholics as we know it. I believe in many gods. I believe in Allah, Buddha, Yahweh, Muhammad, Bathala etc, but I consider their teachings more like Philosophical discourses and just guideline to morality.

 

I even believe on all things mysterious, aliens, predators, vulcans, the Force, kapre, tikbalang. I'm even leaning more on greek and norse pantheism nowadays. Trouble with love? Ask Cupid and Aphrodite. Want to be a standup comedian? Ask Anansi if he can make you sound funny.

 

So my point is, I believe in all those gods/supernatural being, but i also believe that above all of these, there is one Unfathomable Supreme Being Up There, who doesn't have a name who's made all this thing happen (including The Big Bang) silently watching us and our decisions w/o judgement. We only owe him our existence.

 

Is there such a thing as Agnostic Polytheist?

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 2 weeks later...

Everything in this world is an endless process of creation and destruction...it makes our life insignificant.. Nature doesnt really care whether we live or die.. Everything is governed by law of nature.. Therefore we should be thankful.. Existence is better than void..

 

You can have your own opinion about your life but I think *my* life is significant. And I'm thankful for it

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We have the same dilemma dude. I was born and raised as a Catholic. Studied in Catholic schools a few years in elementary and whole 4 years in the College. I even became a member and then an office of a religious group in our university. I do believe in God but not the god of Catholics as we know it. I believe in many gods. I believe in Allah, Buddha, Yahweh, Muhammad, Bathala etc, but I consider their teachings more like Philosophical discourses and just guideline to morality.

 

I even believe on all things mysterious, aliens, predators, vulcans, the Force, kapre, tikbalang. I'm even leaning more on greek and norse pantheism nowadays. Trouble with love? Ask Cupid and Aphrodite. Want to be a standup comedian? Ask Anansi if he can make you sound funny.

 

So my point is, I believe in all those gods/supernatural being, but i also believe that above all of these, there is one Unfathomable Supreme Being Up There, who doesn't have a name who's made all this thing happen (including The Big Bang) silently watching us and our decisions w/o judgement. We only owe him our existence.

 

Is there such a thing as Agnostic Polytheist?

Kapatid meron pong Pangalan ang Dios na makapangyarihan sa lahat... At mapalad ang mga taong sa kanya ay nakakakilala... Kung kilala mo ang Pangalan ng Dios Anak ay tiyak na Makikilala mo din naman ang Pangalan ng Ama nya... Sapagkat Ang Dios Anak "ang Daan, Katotohanan at Buhay"

The Big Bang Theory is a process of Destruction not Creation...

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Kapatid meron pong Pangalan ang Dios na makapangyarihan sa lahat... At mapalad ang mga taong sa kanya ay nakakakilala... Kung kilala mo ang Pangalan ng Dios Anak ay tiyak na Makikilala mo din naman ang Pangalan ng Ama nya... Sapagkat Ang Dios Anak "ang Daan, Katotohanan at Buhay"The Big Bang Theory is a process of Destruction not Creation...

What is missing from this assertion is evidence. Where is your evidence that you are so confident in the veracity of your statements? Furthermore, what do you mean the Big Bang Theory is a process of Destruction not Creation?

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We dont know for sure whether if there is a god or not.. But what cause the big bang?there must have been a natural force that trigger big bang to happen.. What if on other hand time really exist before the big bang... There are some theory suggest a multiverse.. That the contact between two universe cause the explosion to happen..

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We dont know for sure whether if there is a god or not.. But what cause the big bang?there must have been a natural force that trigger big bang to happen.. What if on other hand time really exist before the big bang... There are some theory suggest a multiverse.. That the contact between two universe cause the explosion to happen..

Isa lang ang sigurado talaga.. at yan ay ang katotohanang may isang makapangyarihang puwersa komokontrol sa buong universo.. at yan ang Nag iisang makapangyarihang Diyos...Katulad ng mga unang sinabi ko dito na ang paglikhang naganap na binabanggit sa Genesis ay hindi ang unang paglikhang naganap sa universong ito... bago ang sanlibutang ito ay likhain kasama ang tao..ay mayroon ng unang paglikhang naganap.. at sa umiiral na universong ito unang naganap ang digmaan sa pag itan ng mga mabubuting Anghel na lingkod ng Dios at sa mga Tumalikod na Anghel sa pamumuno ni Luxbel na syang naging si Lucifer... dahil dito ay nawasak ang unang sanglibutan..kayat ng matapos ang digmaang ito ay muling nilikha ang sanglibutang ito kung saan ay nilikha na rin ang tao... Sa digmaang naganap dito papasok ang Big bang theory na pinaniniwalaang naganap ng mga scientipiko..pero katulad ng sinabi ko sa taas.. ang big bang ay destruction.. Anu ba ang nangyari sa Big Bang? Hindi bat isang malaking pagsabog? Kapag ba ang isang bagay ay iyong pinasabog, hindi bat ito ay iyong sinisira? Pagsira sa isang umiiral na bagay...

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  • 2 months later...

The third thread and the continuation.

The 1st one had been deleted by the previous Mod due to spamming and personal attacks, same thing happened to the last one.

So I hope this will take some pages before any unfortunate happened again.

So there.

State your belief and principle, and support them if you can.

I am an atheist and was quite glad to see this page and previous pages that i didn't jump in those coz it was getting lost with what i thought was the point. so I'll stick with what the page starter had in mind (and what i wanted anyway) feel free to question, i will most unlikely try to refute you but will honestly reflect on what you say, so here goes:..

 

1. first doubts came from the bible itself, incoherent and unbelievable stories, and was simply told he's god and can do everything and anything. most atheist knows these things and probably theist but they chose to believe and i chose to doubt. circa grade school

 

2. wars between religions circa high school: of course there are many factors to whatever wars but the identifier seems to be what religion they belong to, what struck me most and baffled about was the wars between protestants and catholics. fine they have different interpretations but in essence, its the same god why fight.

 

so the first two were what planted the seeds and the following is what made it more clear to me.

 

3. existence of other religions. growing up in a catholic school wasnt really that exposed to other religions and what their religions were about. so learning about other religions baffled me. even the greek norse persian and all those that were presented as myths and i never realized that it was a religion revered the same way the religion i was born in to. so this is where the question comes "who's right" this made me an agnostic at the time, i felt like there was a god but which one?

 

4. the existence and continued growth of the numbers of christian sects. i remember when i was young being catholic and found it weird people leaving the church and joining born again or whatever protestant church. i even remember someone telling me that these churches were created by the CIA to defuse the power of the catholic church. laughable maybe but here's what i realize. in science an idea crops up and they refute each other til they finally get a more plausible answer, go with it and call it a theory and will readily dismiss that theory if a better one comes along, on the other hand in religion someone dislikes a doctrine or doesnt agree with, they try to refute and reform but instead of coming to a consensus they start their own church.

 

5. the existence of bachelor degrees, masters and doctorate in theology, plus the existence of apologist. i find it interesting that despite the existence of these higher learning it's clear there has been no progress into knowing and much less proving the existence of god. moreover, the "phrase" "you were not taught well" or that "i have a bad understanding or fundamentalist interpretation of the bible" which i find quite condescending, when you think about it there were no degrees in theology when it was written. most people who were preaching or teaching the bible didnt have degrees much less went to school and apparently they understood it better than me. all i can tell what these degrees are for are for "spin" meaning twisting the words and giving interpretations that are more coherent and less atrocious and confusing.

 

6. the bible again, but not for it's contents but it's source. no one really knows who wrote the bible, well there are a few we can confidently say was probably written by the same guy namely paul. but most are fairly anonymous. furthermore the gospels were not written by mark matthew luke or john and that some entries found in the bible were added later (check out bart ehrman watched all his debates and so far the only thing i can agree with his opponents is that the original bible is still in the bible we have just a bit polluted but still why am i taking the word of someone 2 thousand years ago who doesnt know much and easily believe in supernatural stuff and let's face it, very gullible)

 

there are more but i feel this is too long already. anyway, looking forward to what others have to say, i mean why they became atheist rather than why im wrong, yes im avoiding confrontation coz let's face it, we will never convince each other.

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I hope my special someone isn't reading this but i am more into Ayn Rand's philosophy - I don't have a label. To be pompous and arrogant to even proclaim that you are - any of these labels - are our strong regard to Catholicism - which is distinction. It's better to not have labels to be able to accept that we have no regard to anything from the norm. What's important is what we have - we only need ourselves - and depend noone and expect noone.

 

Everything will always be debateable.

 

My claim to religion is that the weak trepidation of charity - this is what the catholic church conditions a lot of people to be reminded of what Jesus has proclaimed ( or did he or just one of those cruel propagandas) but to me, it's just a twisted way to have this thought of false appreciation that you have done something remarkable but its not. It will enslaved us with the thought of responsibility for peoplewho can't help themselves, Exhibit A"- our kababayans who were victims from the typhoon Hyan.

 

Second, to even be brought into believing in GUILT in anyway we do ( like Attorney Jack Mccoy once said in the show Law and Order that " I am Catholic , i am guilty about anything!) which an act of Manipulation and also a monopoly being brought us by yours truly, the Catholic Church.

 

I understand why a lot of people wanted to call themselves as this and that but try to understand what you're getting into and be able to answer the questions of these so called free thinkers of the world. When you have decided that you wanted this for yourself and you think that this will improve your lifestyle - then be the living example of your philosophy.

 

Like any kind of Religion - it's always self meditating. Keep reading and keep learning, practice what you preach. It will be self regulating.

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