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All Out War... The Mindanao Solution?

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#1 bakal357

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Posted 21 August 2008 - 09:08 AM

Just asking for your opinions.... The BJE for me creates an Imprerium Imperii or a state within a state which runs counter to our constitution (1987 Phil. Const.) No offense meant to our muslim brothers but is there really a need for such? And to make things worst, speculations arose that there will be an all out war against the MILF (moro islamic liberation front). Oh well... it's your say guys....

#2 talibong

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Posted 21 August 2008 - 09:38 AM

Yes!@!

#3 jopoc

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Posted 21 August 2008 - 10:01 AM

its GMA's fault.
when erap was president, he annihilated the MILF. he even got camp abu bakar
then when GMA stole the presidency from erap, she returned the camp.

now we are paying for GMA stupidity.
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#4 bakal357

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Posted 21 August 2008 - 10:10 AM

its GMA's fault.
when erap was president, he annihilated the MILF. he even got camp abu bakar
then when GMA stole the presidency from erap, she returned the camp.

now we are paying for GMA stupidity.


I concur... True... It was GMA's fault... Camp Abu Bakr fell when Erap ordered an all out war. Imagine, a camp which is considered as the seat of power and the main stronghold of the MILF falling into the hands of the gov't. and yet returned!!! The lives of our fearless soldiers are wasted because of GMA's quest for peace.

#5 jopoc

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Posted 21 August 2008 - 10:12 AM

I concur... True... It was GMA's fault... Camp Abu Bakr fell when Erap ordered an all out war. Imagine, a camp which is considered as the seat of power and the main stronghold of the MILF falling into the hands of the gov't. and yet returned!!! The lives of our fearless soldiers are wasted because of GMA's quest for peace.



GMA's so-called quest of peace.

there could have been peace if we did not return to the MILF their seat of power.

===


baka kasi feeling ni GMA, MILF (the porn kind) sya.... :sick:

#6 bakal357

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Posted 21 August 2008 - 10:20 AM

Who's gonna f*#k her??? hehehehe :boo: kidding aside... nasayang lang buhay ng mga namatay para sa katangahan at arogante ni Gng. Arroyo

#7 jopoc

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Posted 21 August 2008 - 10:27 AM

Who's gonna f*#k her??? hehehehe :boo: kidding aside... nasayang lang buhay ng mga namatay para sa katangahan at arogante ni Gng. Arroyo



dapat IBALA SA KANYON SI GMA!!! :thumbsupsmiley:

#8 bakal357

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Posted 21 August 2008 - 10:36 AM

timing kasyang kasya sya sa 20mm howitzer... :thumbsupsmiley:

#9 skitz

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Posted 21 August 2008 - 01:35 PM

War was BROUGHT UPON US. We did not choose it.

And in the engagement of wars, there are no half-measures. You are either all-in or you are out.

Is all-out war the solution to the Mindanao problem? No. But it is our only choice. That, or surrender.

#10 talibong

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Posted 21 August 2008 - 03:27 PM

And in the engagement of wars, there are no half-measures. You are either all-in or you are out.


Tama! Gyera na kasi.

#11 lomex32

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Posted 21 August 2008 - 03:34 PM

NO to CEASEFIRE ....


because if we CEASE, they will FIRE

Tama! Gyera na kasi.


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#12 G.L.

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Posted 21 August 2008 - 03:36 PM

Ideologies aside...
distaste for "brother against brother" aside...

from a PURELY MILITARY STRAGESTIC point of view..

what seems to be the problem with an all out war?

We have them outnumbered and outgunned -- why arent they pulverized by now? Whats the role of the Armed forces if not to get rid of these insurgents, terrorists, rebels? In this day and age, it is becoming highly unlikely that we are still training soldiers to defend our soil from foreign invaders... #1 we dont have enemies #2 we have allies and #3 if someone like CHINA decides to go to war with us, we're screwed anyway.

So the MAIN reason we even have an armed forces is to defend us from INTERNAL conflicts.
And you know what they say... the Best Defense is a Good Offense..

What would happen in an all-out war, with the full force of the military might going after these terrorists? Can we do it?

If.. WHEN we win.. it should end decades of strife.. and the added effect would be the OTHER insurgents (NPAs) would start getting nervous they might be next and may behave themselves..

theres only one problem:

What will the Military do when ALL REBELS have been wiped out? What will happen to their humongous budget? To the Generals?

Edited by G.L., 21 August 2008 - 03:37 PM.


#13 robbietan

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Posted 21 August 2008 - 05:55 PM

timing kasyang kasya sya sa 20mm howitzer... :thumbsupsmiley:


kasya na sa 10 mm si nanoo.....

kahit saan magulo ang mga muslim. sa us, may muslim immigrant galing sa africa na nagtrabho na mag drive ng taxi. nang sumakay ang isang pasahero na may dalang alak, ayaw bumiyahe - against muslim belief daw. taena, gustong pang gawing muslim country ang us. at least alam ng us ang nangyayari sa pinas ngayon.

only one solution to terrorism - annihilate terrorists

#14 slimguyph

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Posted 21 August 2008 - 06:05 PM

kasya na sa 10 mm si nanoo.....

kahit saan magulo ang mga muslim. sa us, may muslim immigrant galing sa africa na nagtrabho na mag drive ng taxi. nang sumakay ang isang pasahero na may dalang alak, ayaw bumiyahe - against muslim belief daw. taena, gustong pang gawing muslim country ang us. at least alam ng us ang nangyayari sa pinas ngayon.

only one solution to terrorism - annihilate terrorists




Hindi lahat ng Muslims mahilig sa gulo. Some of them also want to live peaceful lives. It's unfair to generalize.


Anyways, I don't think the MILF are sincere in pursuing peace talks. So I hope GMA gets enough balls to kick their asses out of Mindanao.

Di naman mahirap eh. I've been to Mindanao a couple of times, hindi naman ganoon kalaki yung lugar para hindi malaman ng military kung nasaan yung mga salbaheng rebelde.

I hope the AFP teaches these stupid sons of bitches na MILF a lesson or two.

#15 talibong

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Posted 21 August 2008 - 07:31 PM

Ideologies aside...
distaste for "brother against brother" aside...

from a PURELY MILITARY STRAGESTIC point of view..

what seems to be the problem with an all out war?

We have them outnumbered and outgunned -- why arent they pulverized by now? Whats the role of the Armed forces if not to get rid of these insurgents, terrorists, rebels? In this day and age, it is becoming highly unlikely that we are still training soldiers to defend our soil from foreign invaders... #1 we dont have enemies #2 we have allies and #3 if someone like CHINA decides to go to war with us, we're screwed anyway.

So the MAIN reason we even have an armed forces is to defend us from INTERNAL conflicts.
And you know what they say... the Best Defense is a Good Offense..

What would happen in an all-out war, with the full force of the military might going after these terrorists? Can we do it?

If.. WHEN we win.. it should end decades of strife.. and the added effect would be the OTHER insurgents (NPAs) would start getting nervous they might be next and may behave themselves..

theres only one problem:

What will the Military do when ALL REBELS have been wiped out? What will happen to their humongous budget? To the Generals?


Wow a student of military history and strategy...

With all due respect sir, if we should followyour line of thinking, then we must disband the Armed Forces now.

In fainess to your "PURELY MILITARY STRAGESTIC point of view"....

1. We have lots of enemies. Remember the Spratlys and Sabbah claim

2. We cannot depend our national defense to our allies.

3. If China would declare war on us, we will fight to the last Filipino soldier. We may be screwed, but I will never let those singkit rape our land. We will fight with whatever we have.

4. Read the Constitution, (Sec 3 Art II) the Armed Forces of the Philippines' goal is to secure the sovereignty of the State and integrity of the National Territory. Read: In any country, the military is primarily for external defense. The main reason that we have an Armed Forces is for External Defense.

5. Internal Security Operations (ISO) and Counter Insurgency (COIN) operations is supposed to be the job of the police. Remember COIN was turned over to the police in the early 90's. But due to their incompetence (sorry), the Army again took over that role.

6. If we should go on all-out war, of course we could do it. Again, you can depend on our soldiers.

7. We could never win by killing all the NPA's and MILF. k*ll one of them, ten will take their place. The military option is only minor to the grand strategy of ending insurgency. The other sectors of government should do their share. The populace should do their share. You should do your share. I'd rather talk to those MILF and NPA to surrender than shoot them.

8. With the "humongous" budget (actually, defense spending is not the priority in our national budget), we could buy more guns and weapon systems to improve our military. That way, our country would have the muscle in the global diplomatic community.

Again sir, with regards to your "PURELY MILITARY STRAGESTIC point of view", I suggest you start reading Sun-Tzu's Art of War, and the other writers of modern military thiking like Monroe, Bradley, among others.

But I must reiterate to you sir, before China would dare declare war on us, we are never bent on surrendering.

Here's our creed:

Recognizing that I volunteered as a Ranger, fully knowing the hazards of my chosen profession, I will always endeavor to uphold the prestige, honor, and high esprit de corps of the Ranger Regiment.

Acknowledging the fact that a Ranger is a more elite soldier who arrives at the cutting edge of battle by land, sea, or air, I accept the fact that as a Ranger my country expects me to move farther, faster and fight harder than any other soldier.

Never shall I fail my comrades. I will always keep myself mentally alert, physically strong and morally straight and I will shoulder more than my share of the task whatever it may be, one-hundred-percent and then some.

Gallantly will I show the world that I am a specially selected and well-trained soldier. My courtesy to superior officers, neatness of dress and care of equipment shall set the example for others to follow.

Energetically will I meet the enemies of my country. I shall defeat them on the field of battle for I am better trained and will fight with all my might. Surrender is not a Ranger word. I will never leave a fallen comrade to fall into the hands of the enemy and under no circumstances will I ever embarrass my country.

Readily will I display the intestinal fortitude required to fight on to the Ranger objective and complete the mission though I be the lone survivor.

Rangers Lead The Way!.."All the way!"

#16 cool_as_ice

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Posted 21 August 2008 - 08:57 PM

Yes all out war is definitely the solution.. the thing is do we have enough budget, money, to do this..
reading El Tabako's (FVR) editorial/article at ABS-CBN news website (http://www.abs-cbnne...?storyId=128789) yesterday brought me up to the thinking of money put into waste for the past 27 years. Imagine 1975 pa yang giyera na yan sa mindanao and accumulated cost of whopping P140B ++
Me thinks is it worth it?
Madami sa mga kababayan natin na namatay dahil sa kakulangan ng armas, bala atbp. Yung naibalita ng Inquirer/GMA tungkol sa sundalo na namatay dahil walang saklolo na maglipad sa kanya patungo sa pagamutan.

I also watched history channels story about "Stalking Jihad" a story about the Sipadan abduction, there i was exposed that corruption (AFP) took part in the unending negotiation and retrieval of the hostages. (This took part during Erap's term)

Now this nanoo, as everyone in PECE subforums calls her, sudden plan of this BJE-MOA stirs up the anger of the southernmost part of the Philippines.

I just hope they (Government) will be serious enough to end this, Kawawa yung mga kababayan natin sa Mindanao. Hindi sila umunlad dahil napeperwisyo ang kanilang kabuhayan dahil sa walang habas na labanan ng sundalo at rebelde. Kung nagawi na kayo ng Mindanao, madaming magagandang pook na pwede sana nating mapakinabangan sa turismo, (beach, rainforest) SAYANG!!!

Edited by cool_as_ice, 21 August 2008 - 08:58 PM.


#17 G.L.

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Posted 21 August 2008 - 09:32 PM

Wow a student of military history and strategy...

With all due respect sir, if we should followyour line of thinking, then we must disband the Armed Forces now.

In fainess to your "PURELY MILITARY STRAGESTIC point of view"....

1. We have lots of enemies. Remember the Spratlys and Sabbah claim

2. We cannot depend our national defense to our allies.

3. If China would declare war on us, we will fight to the last Filipino soldier. We may be screwed, but I will never let those singkit rape our land. We will fight with whatever we have.

4. Read the Constitution, (Sec 3 Art II) the Armed Forces of the Philippines' goal is to secure the sovereignty of the State and integrity of the National Territory. Read: In any country, the military is primarily for external defense. The main reason that we have an Armed Forces is for External Defense.

5. Internal Security Operations (ISO) and Counter Insurgency (COIN) operations is supposed to be the job of the police. Remember COIN was turned over to the police in the early 90's. But due to their incompetence (sorry), the Army again took over that role.

6. If we should go on all-out war, of course we could do it. Again, you can depend on our soldiers.

7. We could never win by killing all the NPA's and MILF. k*ll one of them, ten will take their place. The military option is only minor to the grand strategy of ending insurgency. The other sectors of government should do their share. The populace should do their share. You should do your share. I'd rather talk to those MILF and NPA to surrender than shoot them.

8. With the "humongous" budget (actually, defense spending is not the priority in our national budget), we could buy more guns and weapon systems to improve our military. That way, our country would have the muscle in the global diplomatic community.

Again sir, with regards to your "PURELY MILITARY STRAGESTIC point of view", I suggest you start reading Sun-Tzu's Art of War, and the other writers of modern military thiking like Monroe, Bradley, among others.

But I must reiterate to you sir, before China would dare declare war on us, we are never bent on surrendering.

Here's our creed:

Recognizing that I volunteered as a Ranger, fully knowing the hazards of my chosen profession, I will always endeavor to uphold the prestige, honor, and high esprit de corps of the Ranger Regiment.

Acknowledging the fact that a Ranger is a more elite soldier who arrives at the cutting edge of battle by land, sea, or air, I accept the fact that as a Ranger my country expects me to move farther, faster and fight harder than any other soldier.

Never shall I fail my comrades. I will always keep myself mentally alert, physically strong and morally straight and I will shoulder more than my share of the task whatever it may be, one-hundred-percent and then some.

Gallantly will I show the world that I am a specially selected and well-trained soldier. My courtesy to superior officers, neatness of dress and care of equipment shall set the example for others to follow.

Energetically will I meet the enemies of my country. I shall defeat them on the field of battle for I am better trained and will fight with all my might. Surrender is not a Ranger word. I will never leave a fallen comrade to fall into the hands of the enemy and under no circumstances will I ever embarrass my country.

Readily will I display the intestinal fortitude required to fight on to the Ranger objective and complete the mission though I be the lone survivor.

Rangers Lead The Way!.."All the way!"


Dude.. first of all... chill... :flowers: There was no need for sarcasm.
I am *NOT* or pretended to be a student or military history or strategy...

It is precisely why i was ASKING from a purely military and stragesti point... CAN WE and HOW can we do it? I was posing that question... which you already answered with...

6. If we should go on all-out war, of course we could do it. Again, you can depend on our soldiers.

But I have no clue how (not being an expert). And if we could do it... WHY HAVENT we done it?

You said "I'd rather talk to those MILF and NPA to surrender than shoot them."

With all due respect sir, and i am not the one asking this bec i hear this comment over and over again by others... we HAVE BEEN talking to them for 3 or 4 decades... the latest issue is the govt was trying to negotiate a deal with them, for peace (ill-advised, unconstitutional maybe? but thats another story) there was some problems and next thing we know they are attacking and killing innoent civilians.

You are obviously a soldier.. a Ranger? Then I salute you sir.. you and your kind are doing more for this country than i ever ould. You have my respect, and no disrespect was meant with my earlier comments...

As for my musings about the role of the military... strictly from a LAYMAN's understanding (again, not a student or an expert) I was merely making an observation that the country has NEVER been to War with another country in MODERN TIMES. Again, please correct my perception if i dont have the facts right , but the last time we were at war in WWII, the AFP was incorporated with the American Forces. And the AFP back then is a much smaller organization compared to now.

I was merely suggesting that a war with another country is such an unlikely scenario... that meanwhile, wouldnt a BETTER use of its might be to solve all these insurgency problems? No disrespect intended about their actual role (as mandated for by the constitution as you clearly pointed out).

Of course i have no doubt if such a war does happen.. the AFP and our valiant soldiers will do everything ..even lay down their lives.. to defend the country. I used China as just an example (calling them singkits was a slur and uncalled for btw)... but in truth, again, who would want to go to war with us? (over the Spratlys? i dont think it will ever come to that) But you got to admit .. CHina and some other neighbors (India, Pakistan) have NUKES.. we dont. So having powerful allies like the US do help.

#18 dos8dos

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Posted 21 August 2008 - 09:43 PM

Yes all out war is definitely the solution.. the thing is do we have enough budget, money, to do this..
reading El Tabako's (FVR) editorial/article at ABS-CBN news website (http://www.abs-cbnne...?storyId=128789) yesterday brought me up to the thinking of money put into waste for the past 27 years. Imagine 1975 pa yang giyera na yan sa mindanao and accumulated cost of whopping P140B ++
Me thinks is it worth it?
Madami sa mga kababayan natin na namatay dahil sa kakulangan ng armas, bala atbp. Yung naibalita ng Inquirer/GMA tungkol sa sundalo na namatay dahil walang saklolo na maglipad sa kanya patungo sa pagamutan.

I also watched history channels story about "Stalking Jihad" a story about the Sipadan abduction, there i was exposed that corruption (AFP) took part in the unending negotiation and retrieval of the hostages. (This took part during Erap's term)

Now this nanoo, as everyone in PECE subforums calls her, sudden plan of this BJE-MOA stirs up the anger of the southernmost part of the Philippines.

I just hope they (Government) will be serious enough to end this, Kawawa yung mga kababayan natin sa Mindanao. Hindi sila umunlad dahil napeperwisyo ang kanilang kabuhayan dahil sa walang habas na labanan ng sundalo at rebelde. Kung nagawi na kayo ng Mindanao, madaming magagandang pook na pwede sana nating mapakinabangan sa turismo, (beach, rainforest) SAYANG!!!


with so much money spent do you think it is wise to simply give it up, as in money & territory lost simply becoz our leaders are sick & tired of fighting?

#19 mwah

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Posted 21 August 2008 - 10:50 PM


Me thinks is it worth it?


Why? Isn't territorial integrity and national sovereignty worth EVERYTHING?

#20 bakal357

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Posted 21 August 2008 - 11:49 PM

national territory and sovereignty is worth everything... To define a State according to the Montevideo Convention "A State is a community of persons, more or less numerous, occupying a fixed portion of territory, free from external control and possessing an organized system of government in the inhabitants thereof render habitual obedience."

The MoA creating the BJE is an agreement creating an "Imperium Imperii" or a State within a state... According to some constitutional experts (my law profs in the UPANG Law School) such is contrary to the constitution.... Thus, making Mrs. Arroyo guilty for gross violation of the constitution...

O well...




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