Jump to content


Photo

South China/West Philippine Sea


  • Please log in to reply
2149 replies to this topic

#21 Guest_inverbrass_*

Guest_inverbrass_*
  • Guests

Posted 12 July 2011 - 04:40 PM

what happens if china doesnt want to be diplomatic about it?

Your guess is as good as mine.

#22 sampatsiaw

sampatsiaw

    Looker

  • (04) Casual
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 154 posts

Posted 12 July 2011 - 08:01 PM

hindi mangyayare yun... china has force pero di sila stupid to take something by force... hanggang naval exercise lang sila... small skirmishes
pero di totoong gera... mawawalan ng market ang gamit nila if they become the bad guy and tried to attack smaller/weaker/poorer countries

#23 khantan

khantan

    Wanton

  • (05) Regular
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 731 posts

Posted 12 July 2011 - 10:39 PM

I agree with this. Or perhaps to sweeten the pot, RP could sell 50% of the oil extracted from the RP portion of the Spratlys to the USA. At least if this would happen, the US would have a reason to have a presence in the Spratlys area to protect its interests.


Good suggestion.

#24 jopoc

jopoc

    MTC Oblation Runner

  • Ambassador
  • 22,131 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:puque, este p'que

Posted 13 July 2011 - 06:54 AM

Your guess is as good as mine.



what do you think we should do if china doesnt want to be diplomatic with us?

#25 zenislev

zenislev

    SevenTwoZero

  • (08) Fanatical Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,177 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Above the sky and in the vast empty space.
  • Interests:Gunpla.. Gunpla.. Gunpla..

Posted 13 July 2011 - 07:26 AM

what do you think we should do if china doesnt want to be diplomatic with us?


this rule of engagement will be applied: "fire only until fired upon." then again, what are we going to fire against them?

#26 dos8dos

dos8dos

    Seducer

  • (08) Fanatical Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,049 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Siberia

Posted 13 July 2011 - 12:49 PM

^or run samson run

#27 Guest_inverbrass_*

Guest_inverbrass_*
  • Guests

Posted 13 July 2011 - 04:32 PM

this rule of engagement will be applied: "fire only until fired upon." then again, what are we going to fire against them?

Haha! Good point.

what do you think we should do if china doesnt want to be diplomatic with us?

Tell good ole Uncle Sam. As of now, we don't need to coz Uncle Sam already knows. What do you think we should do?

Edited by TheSmilingBandit, 13 July 2011 - 08:30 PM.


#28 camiar

camiar

    Camiar

  • (10) Super Poster
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,428 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 13 July 2011 - 07:38 PM

Tell good ole Uncle Sam. As of now, we don't need to coz Uncle Sam already knows. What do you think we should do?



1. Keep whatever dignity we have by keeping quiet about our weakness.
2. Persist in solving the conflict through diplomatic means and strengthening our alliances with ASEAN and US.
3. Quietly and persistently develop our capability to defend ourselves.

#29 *kalel*

*kalel*

    God of Lust

  • (11) Wyld
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,595 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:yes, I am a Ginebra Fan :)

Posted 13 July 2011 - 09:13 PM

struggle for dominance? not from China's point of view

#30 zenislev

zenislev

    SevenTwoZero

  • (08) Fanatical Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,177 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Above the sky and in the vast empty space.
  • Interests:Gunpla.. Gunpla.. Gunpla..

Posted 14 July 2011 - 06:54 AM

people on our government is indeed struggling for dominance.. dominance on having the biggest chunk on the budget. :lol:

#31 BnF95

BnF95

    Still One More

  • (10) Super Poster
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,600 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:La Islas de Bananas
  • Interests:Jokes and Mischief
    Books and Booze
    Learning and improving myself

Posted 14 July 2011 - 09:39 AM

hindi mangyayare yun... china has force pero di sila stupid to take something by force... hanggang naval exercise lang sila... small skirmishes
pero di totoong gera... mawawalan ng market ang gamit nila if they become the bad guy and tried to attack smaller/weaker/poorer countries

Yes, because China was so worried about looking like the bad guy if they attack a smaller/weaker/poorer country. Oh wait, didn't they do that to Tibet?

what do you think we should do if china doesnt want to be diplomatic with us?

We can cry for help.

1. Keep whatever dignity we have by keeping quiet about our weakness.
2. Persist in solving the conflict through diplomatic means and strengthening our alliances with ASEAN and US.
3. Quietly and persistently develop our capability to defend ourselves.

1. Does that mean if China attacks we should tell anyone that wants to help us to just puck-off?
2. Ah, sorry, we should strengthen our alliances but keep thumping our chests about how strong we are?
3. I agree with this one. We should have been doing this for decades, unfortunately TitaCory, Tobacco, Mustaches, and Gremlin, who have held power for the last 25 years, have either looted this nation or let their friends and associates do it for them.

#32 jopoc

jopoc

    MTC Oblation Runner

  • Ambassador
  • 22,131 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:puque, este p'que

Posted 14 July 2011 - 10:28 AM

Haha! Good point.


Tell good ole Uncle Sam. As of now, we don't need to coz Uncle Sam already knows. What do you think we should do?



prepare to fight.


why, do you expect uncle sam to do all the fightin for us? (assuming he helps us) but what if uncles sam doesnt want to help us? or gives us very limited help?

#33 Guest_inverbrass_*

Guest_inverbrass_*
  • Guests

Posted 14 July 2011 - 11:12 AM

prepare to fight.


why, do you expect uncle sam to do all the fightin for us? (assuming he helps us) but what if uncles sam doesnt want to help us? or gives us very limited help?

Prepare to fight. What do we fight with? I don't wanna repeat myself since I posted the reasons on the closed thread on why it's useless to fight with China. Read what I posted on the closed thread.

To answer your question, because Uncle Sam is the ally of Juan Dela Cruz. Both countries signed a mutual defense treaty. Read Article IV and V of that treaty. Uncle Sam is bound by that treaty unless of course it reneges on that treaty which would not be good with public perception coz if the US reneges on that treaty, it would only mean the US can't be trusted and that it is scared of China. I'm pretty sure good ole Uncle Sam wouldn't want that to happen.



#34 zenislev

zenislev

    SevenTwoZero

  • (08) Fanatical Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,177 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Above the sky and in the vast empty space.
  • Interests:Gunpla.. Gunpla.. Gunpla..

Posted 14 July 2011 - 11:26 AM

fight with a few S-211s, a few OV-10s, an obsolete navy, a under equipped army, and corrupt generals of the armed forces.

#35 jopoc

jopoc

    MTC Oblation Runner

  • Ambassador
  • 22,131 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:puque, este p'que

Posted 14 July 2011 - 12:31 PM

Prepare to fight. What do we fight with? I don't wanna repeat myself since I posted the reasons on the closed thread on why it's useless to fight with China. Read what I posted on the closed thread.

To answer your question, because Uncle Sam is the ally of Juan Dela Cruz. Both countries signed a mutual defense treaty. Read Article IV and V of that treaty. Uncle Sam is bound by that treaty unless of course it reneges on that treaty which would not be good with public perception coz if the US reneges on that treaty, it would only mean the US can't be trusted and that it is scared of China. I'm pretty sure good ole Uncle Sam wouldn't want that to happen.



are you saying that if the US abides by the treaty, we leave all the fighting to uncle sam? all we do is watch? is that what the treaty says?



also, the Articles IV and V of treaty says:

Article IV. Each Party recognizes that an armed attack in the Pacific Area on either of the Parties would be dangerous to its own peace and safety and declares that it would act to meet the common dangers in accordance with its constitutional processes. Any such armed attack and all measures taken as a result thereof shall be immediately reported to the Security Council of the United Nations. Such measures shall be terminated when the Security Council has taken the measures necessary to restore and maintain international peace and security.

Article V. For the purpose of Article IV, an armed attack on either of the Parties is deemed to include an armed attack on the metropolitan territory of either of the Parties, or on the island territories under its jurisdiction in the Pacific or on its armed forces, public vessels or aircraft in the Pacific.



my question is, automatic ba ang US support pag nilusob tayo ng tsina dadaan pa yan sa UN, and before the US go into war, dapat may approval ba ng congress.

so what do we do for the meantime?

Edited by jopoc, 14 July 2011 - 12:44 PM.


#36 lomex32

lomex32

    The Eye from the Sky

  • Ambassador
  • 10,551 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Manila
  • Interests:Automobiles, travel, cooking, computer gaming,

Posted 14 July 2011 - 05:13 PM

Ayan na sila!
Attached File  chinaships.jpg   203.03KB   0 downloads

Type 051C, Shenyang Class DDG, new area air defense destroyers
Type 052C, Lanzhou Class DDG area air defense destroyer. Phased array radar, VLS. Aegis like battle management
Type 052B, DDG, Guangzhou DDG, general purpose guided missile destroyer
Proj 956, Hangzhou DDG, imported Russian Sovremenny destroyer
Type 054A, modern and very well armed general purpose guided missile frigate with VLS missiles.
Type 093, SSN, new nuclear powered attack submarine
Type 094, SSBN, new nuclear powered ballistic missile submarine
Type 039, Song class SSK, ddvanced diesel electric attack submarine
Proj 636, Yuanzheng SSK, imported advanced Russian Kilo diesel electric attack submarine
Yuan Class SSK, new advanced diesel electric attack submarine with Air Independent Propulsion (AIP) capabilities
Type 072-III, LST Large Amphibious assault ship
Type 071 LPD Very Large Amphibious assault ship
Type 2208, Guided missile Littoral Combat Craft, Advanced, stealthy, wave-piercing catamaran. Type 074A LST Medium, modern amphibious landing craft.

Edited by lomex32, 14 July 2011 - 05:24 PM.


#37 Guest_inverbrass_*

Guest_inverbrass_*
  • Guests

Posted 14 July 2011 - 10:16 PM

are you saying that if the US abides by the treaty, we leave all the fighting to uncle sam? all we do is watch? is that what the treaty says?

my question is, automatic ba ang US support pag nilusob tayo ng tsina dadaan pa yan sa UN, and before the US go into war, dapat may approval ba ng congress.

so what do we do for the meantime?

Did I even imply that we will leave the fighting to Uncle Sam. It's called a mutual defense treaty with emphasis on mutual.

Yes, there has to be congressional approval before the US goes to war. Do you think US Congress is foolish enough to renege on a treaty? If it does, the US will be viewed as an untrustworthy nation and at the same time would make the it seem weak and scared of China. Now, the US Congress wouldn't want that kind of public perception. Would they?

Edited by inverbrass, 14 July 2011 - 10:18 PM.


#38 jopoc

jopoc

    MTC Oblation Runner

  • Ambassador
  • 22,131 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:puque, este p'que

Posted 15 July 2011 - 12:46 PM

Did I even imply that we will leave the fighting to Uncle Sam. It's called a mutual defense treaty with emphasis on mutual.


a. if your saying that it is mutual, then you are saying that we will be fighting too, right?


Yes, there has to be congressional approval before the US goes to war. Do you think US Congress is foolish enough to renege on a treaty? If it does, the US will be viewed as an untrustworthy nation and at the same time would make the it seem weak and scared of China. Now, the US Congress wouldn't want that kind of public perception. Would they?




b.you did not answer my question, what you we do for the meantime we are being under attacked and there is still no approval from congress?

#39 Guest_inverbrass_*

Guest_inverbrass_*
  • Guests

Posted 15 July 2011 - 02:13 PM

a. if your saying that it is mutual, then you are saying that we will be fighting too, right?

b.you did not answer my question, what you we do for the meantime we are being under attacked and there is still no approval from congress?

a. Yes

b. Wait for US Congress. I don't share your suggestion that we should be prepared to fight. Again, we just don't have what it takes to wage war against China.



#40 camiar

camiar

    Camiar

  • (10) Super Poster
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,428 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 15 July 2011 - 02:31 PM


1. Keep whatever dignity we have by keeping quiet about our weakness.
2. Persist in solving the conflict through diplomatic means and strengthening our alliances with ASEAN and US.
3. Quietly and persistently develop our capability to defend ourselves.


1. Does that mean if China attacks we should tell anyone that wants to help us to just puck-off?
2. Ah, sorry, we should strengthen our alliances but keep thumping our chests about how strong we are?
3. I agree with this one. We should have been doing this for decades, unfortunately TitaCory, Tobacco, Mustaches, and Gremlin, who have held power for the last 25 years, have either looted this nation or let their friends and associates do it for them.


The set of 3 recommendations I posted should be done all at the same time. Individually, you took them in the wrong context.
1. We should keep quiet and preserve our dignity. If you are weak, crowing to the world how weak you are won't help you. I cannot take Inverbrass' noisy statements on how incompetent we would be in defending ourselves in case China is stupid enough to attack us at our present weak state. Pero di pa naguumpisa ang laban sigurado na syang talo sya. Kung kasama ng mga sundalo yang ganyang klase ng tao sa gyera, baka sya pa unang putukan.

2. Diplomacy is the best policy in the current situation. Calm words and smart maneuverings can still stop the agressor. Are we thumping our chest on how strong we are? When did that happen? Who are we kidding? But just merely stating that we will not back down from a fight does not show how strong you are, but it shows how committed we are. Hindi lakas, kundi tibay ng loob. Tumahimik ka lang pero wag mong ipakitang takot ka. Kung minsan dun pa lang sa pakita ng tibay ng loob natin, lulubayan ka na ng kaaway mo.

3. If you didn't know yet, the current capacity upgrade in the Navy was done during the past administration. Ngayon nga lang dumating.Puro na lang tayo sisi sa mga nakaraang administrasyon. But this current administration has hardly done anything to upgrade our defense capabilities, yet nobody is complaining. Tayo mismo ang problema.

Edited by camiar, 15 July 2011 - 02:48 PM.





4 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 3 guests, 0 anonymous users


    Bing (1)