Apo Marcos : Facts And Myths

[filibustero]

"In fact, DepEd has built 86,478 classrooms and hired 128,105 teachers from 2010 to 2014. DepEd has already requested funds for the construction of 27,499 classrooms, and will be hiring 37,000 teachers in 2016 for Senior High School alone," the department said then.

- See more at: http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/story/491038/news/nation/classroom-teacher-shortages-to-welcome-new-school-year-lawmaker-warns#sthash.RspKWIlS.dpuf

 

Kung totoo ito, then 86,478 > 17,000 di po ba?

 

On the average, that's easily 17,000 ++ classroom in a year since 2010 vs the 17,000 built during Marcos time.

Trivia:

 

Alam nyo ba kung saan kinukuha ng Aquino Administration ang pondo para sa pagpapagawa ng classroom? Sa PAGCOR. As of 2015, 10 Billion pesos na ang inilaan na pondo ng PAGCOR para sa school building program nila. Kasama kasi sa batas na gumawa sa PAGCOR na isa sa mga tungkulin na binigay dito ay "to allocate and distribute, with the approval of the Office of the President of the Philippines, the earnings of the corporation earmarked to finance infrastructure and socio-civic projects."

 

Blind Item:

 

Sino ang nagsulat ng Presidential Decree (P.D.) No. 1869, series of 1983 - ang batas na gumawa sa PAGCOR?

 

[rooster69ph]

Trivia:

 

Alam nyo ba kung saan kinukuha ng Aquino Administration ang pondo para sa pagpapagawa ng classroom? Sa PAGCOR. As of 2015, 10 Billion pesos na ang inilaan na pondo ng PAGCOR para sa school building program nila. Kasama kasi sa batas na gumawa sa PAGCOR na isa sa mga tungkulin na binigay dito ay "to allocate and distribute, with the approval of the Office of the President of the Philippines, the earnings of the corporation earmarked to finance infrastructure and socio-civic projects."

 

Blind Item:

 

Sino ang nagsulat ng Presidential Decree (P.D.) No. 1869, series of 1983 - ang batas na gumawa sa PAGCOR?

 

Which makes me wonder saan napunta yun pera nun panahon ni Marcos galing sa allokasyon at pati na rin yun inutang. Sabi ni ka ed 17,000 classrooms ang kanyang napahawa sa mahabang panahon niyang panunungkulan. Sabi dito may 500,000 classrooms na tayo. So divide it equally by 5 presidents thats 90,000 classroom built per administration after marcos. Kulang kulang 5x di po ba?

 

 

http://www.rappler.com/nation/94866-school-opening-2015

[vienvenido]

Masaya discussion.

 

Admittedly marami nagawa at napatayo. Madami rin napatay at nasira. Kung ganun lang sana kadali timbangin ang mbuti sa masama, andali sna sumagot.

 

My own perspective, the bad outweighs the good.

[filibustero]

Which makes me wonder saan napunta yun pera nun panahon ni Marcos galing sa allokasyon at pati na rin yun inutang. Sabi ni ka ed 17,000 classrooms ang kanyang napahawa sa mahabang panahon niyang panunungkulan. Sabi dito may 500,000 classrooms na tayo. So divide it equally by 5 presidents thats 90,000 classroom built per administration after marcos. Kulang kulang 5x di po ba?

 

 

http://www.rappler.com/nation/94866-school-opening-2015

Not sure kung saan galing yung 17,000. Pero dun sa 1967 SONA ni Marcos, sabi dun may 17,000 classrooms na napagawa galing sa 724 schoolhouses na naitayo. Baka dun galing yung 17,000 na numero? Pero 1967 pa yun; first term pa lang nya yun.

 

As to PAGCOR funds, sabi dun sa P.D. 1869, from 1977-1982 nung una ginawa PAGCOR, 1.67 Billion pesos lang ang gross revenues ng PAGCOR. I suppose malaking pera na yun nung panahon na yun at malaki naitulong nito sa pagpondo ng infrastructure projects. Syempre hindi naman natin masasabi nang may kasiguruhan kung sa infrastructure nga ba napunta yun o sa bulsa, kasi marami dito nagsasabi marami naipagawa na infrastructure si FM at marami din nagsasabi kinurakot lang yan. We are all free to speculate naman. Wala naman kasi ako COA audit report ng mga panahon na yun.

[haroots2]

DepEd has already requested funds for the construction of 27,499 classrooms, and will be hiring 37,000 teachers in 2016 for Senior High School alone," the department said then.

- See more at: http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/story/491038/news/nation/classroom-teacher-shortages-to-welcome-new-school-year-lawmaker-warns#sthash.RspKWIlS.dpuf

 

 

 

 

They are obligated now to do more classrooms para hindi pumalpak yung K1-12 program nila. Initially palpak na ito kasi pinilit inimplement kahit di pa ready ang mga schools nationwide para lang umabot sa Aquino administration.

In terms of infrastructure projects like schools, bridges etc., wala nang hihigit pa kay Marcos because simply that era was the really the time to build most of it. Kumbaga na fill up na ni Marcos halos lahat ng kailangan to do these infra, ang role na lng ng next admin. is to continue it.

Edited November 13, 2015 by haroots2

[Edmund Dantes]

I could not argue better, Haroots and Filibustero said it best. unang term pa nga lang yan 17000, pwera pa dyan yung ilang national highschool at state u na napatayo nung period na yun.

 

Tandaan natin, yung issue ng siksikang mga classroom at kakulangan sa teachers nagumpisa yan kay Ramos at sa mga sumundo. Tapos si Marcos pa din me kasalanan nyan? Aysus! Hirap kasi sa mga double standard, puro na lang pagsisisi sa taong matagal ng patay.

 

Alam nyo, me ilang generation ng family na rin namin ang nagaral sa UP. Noong panahon daw ni Marcos, alagang alaga daw ang UP at mga state U. Ngayon pag bumabalik sila dun, sinasabing parang hindi naman halos na-upgrade yung itsura ng campus. Parang feeling mo 70s pa din yung facilities lol. Of course every now and then me nadadagdag, pero kumpara sa mga private universities na parang laging brand new yung campus, medyo napagiwanan na nga. Its a shame because ito dapat pinakamagaling na unibersidad natin. Me isa rin akong kamagaanak nag medicine sa UP-PGH. Noon daw sobra dami yung gamot dyan, kelangan na itapon kasi expired na. Samantalang mga pasyente kelangan pumila ng madaling araw para makakuha libreng gamot at ng di maubusan.

 

Nung nagtuturo pa ako, I participated noon sa training ng DepEd teachers at pag-update ng mga textbooks. Talagang nakakakilabot kung papano bumaba ng husto standards ng mga public school books natin. Ni hindi man lang na-proof read ng maayos. Sometimes you even wonder if a team of monkeys wrote it. Halatang dun pa lang amoy na amoy mo na produkto ito ng corruption. At itong mga librong ito ha, napublish panahon na ni Erap. Naalala nyo text book scam noon? O ano kasalanan ulit yan ni Marcos? Kung di sya kasi naging corrupt baka di rin naging corrupt yung mga nanungkulan nung panahon ni Erap? Ano ba!

 

I will admit, you look at the romanticized story of EDSA people power 1, even that of EDSA 2, eh maganda talaga. Ang kaso walang followthrough. Walang ibang ginawa kundi sisihin si Marcos sa lahat na lang ng problema. Walang mangyayari kung ganyan tayo. Dapat kung sino nakaupo akuin yung responsibilidad ng problema. OK mahirap buhay panahon ni Marcos? Sige kasalanan nya yan. kahit naman si Bongbong sabi me masamang naidulot martial law. Pero kung mahirap pa din buhay natin ngayon, hindi na yan kasalanan ni Marcos.

[rooster69ph]

I could not argue better, Haroots and Filibustero said it best. unang term pa nga lang yan 17000, pwera pa dyan yung ilang national highschool at state u na napatayo nung period na yun.

 

.

 

So ilan ba lahat talaga? Can you provide comparative figures to justify your statement "Pagsama-samahin mo man presidente mula kay Cory at Ngoyngoy hindi pa din yan matatapatan". Talk is cheap right?

 

 

 

 

 

Matanong lang din kita, sinisisi ba o may nagsisisi ba kay Marcos about the text book scam nun panahon ni Erap?

[camiar]

 

So ilan ba lahat talaga? Can you provide comparative figures to justify your statement "Pagsama-samahin mo man presidente mula kay Cory at Ngoyngoy hindi pa din yan matatapatan". Talk is cheap right?

 

 

 

 

 

Matanong lang din kita, sinisisi ba o may nagsisisi ba kay Marcos about the text book scam nun panahon ni Erap?

 

During Marcos' administration, there was a classroom building program using mass-manufactured standardized building design (they called it "Marcos-type" school building). A lot of classrooms were built during Marcos's first 8 years as president, a lot of which still stands today. If I am not mistaken, it is part of Japan's war reparations payment program to the Philippines, which also included funding for the construction of the famous North Diversion Road (now NLEX).

 

Regarding Erap, why would he say anything negative vs. Marcos, eh magkakampi naman sila simula't sapul?

Edited November 14, 2015 by camiar

[rooster69ph]

During Marcos' administration, there was a classroom building program using mass-manufactured standardized building design (they called it "Marcos-type" school building). A lot of classrooms were built during Marcos's first 8 years as president, a lot of which still stands today. If I am not mistaken, it is part of Japan's war reparations payment program to the Philippines, which also included funding for the construction of the famous North Diversion Road (now NLEX).

 

Hindi naman issue kung madami o konti eh...

 

What you just said still does not resolve the issue whether or not marcos indeed build more classrooms than all the president that came after him as one claimed. So fact ba yun or myth?

[camiar]

Hindi naman issue kung madami o konti eh...

 

What you just said still does not resolve the issue whether or not marcos indeed build more classrooms than all the president that came after him as one claimed. So fact ba yun or myth?

 

I think it's up to you to find out in order to disprove edmund's (?) claim.

 

Ang alam ko nung Marcos' time, marami talagang newly constructed school buildings kahit saan ka magpunta, na hindi ko nakita in the subsequent administrations.

[rooster69ph]

 

I think it's up to you to find out in order to disprove edmund's (?) claim.

 

Ang alam ko nung Marcos' time, marami talagang newly constructed school buildings kahit saan ka magpunta, na hindi ko nakita in the subsequent administrations.

 

I have already so you may want to backread a bit to see the figures I've presented that shows there were more that 17,000 classrooms built.

 

Now unless Marcos loyalist or defenders in this issue can show figures that will counter the numbers presented, e this will remain a myth. Ang dali kasi sabihin na "ang alam ko talaga marami" eh hindi naman maibigay yun numero. As I said talk is cheap.

[camiar]

 

I have already so you may want to backread a bit to see the figures I've presented that shows there were more that 17,000 classrooms built.

 

Now unless Marcos loyalist or defenders in this issue can show figures that will counter the numbers presented, e this will remain a myth. Ang dali kasi sabihin na "ang alam ko talaga marami" eh hindi naman maibigay yun numero. As I said talk is cheap.

OK.

 

I made some searches, and I can't find Marcos' figures.

 

From www.nscb.gov.ph, GMA's statistics shows she built a lot of classrooms, too, and the numbers shown are only during the last five years of her term.

 

Edited November 16, 2015 by camiar

[rooster69ph]

OK.

 

I made some searches, and I can't find Marcos' figures.

 

From www.nscb.gov.ph, GMA's statistics shows she built a lot of classrooms, too, and the numbers shown are only during the last five years of her term.

 

noofclassrooms.jpg

 

 

... thus its a MYTH unless proven otherwise..

Edited November 16, 2015 by rooster69ph

[camiar]

 

 

... thus its a MYTH unless proven otherwise..

 

Myth because it shows GMA doing more in five years than what Abnoy can ever do in his lifetime?

 

That's from the Philippine Statistics Authority.

 

Numbers don't lie.

 

follow this link:

 

http://www.nscb.gov.ph/stats/statdev/2009/Education/Chapter_Education.asp

[rooster69ph]

Myth because it shows GMA doing more in five years than what Abnoy can ever do in his lifetime?

 

That's from the Philippine Statistics Authority.

 

Numbers don't lie.

 

follow this link:

 

http://www.nscb.gov.ph/stats/statdev/2009/Education/Chapter_Education.asp

Myth because blind loyalist failed to face the fact that marcos never built more schools that all his successors combined...kung blackjack ito buta na bumubunot pa eh kaya yun segway.

 

Back to basics tayo...Granted inutil si PNoy compared to PGMA and all the presidents we have, yun 86 thousand classrooms built from 2010 to 2014 which i quoted from a news report a few post back is still more than the 17,000 Marcos built in what? 20 years? Magiging fact ba yun sinasabi na si marcos ang may pinakamaraming napagawang classrooms sa lahat ng sumunod sa kanya combined?

 

Indeed...Numbers don't lie

Edited November 16, 2015 by rooster69ph

[rooster69ph]

FACT: Naging "sick man of asia" ang Pilipinas sa pamumuno ni Marcos

 

 

 

The Philippine economy has experienced repeated boom-and-bust cycles in the 5 decades since the nation achieved independence from the United States in 1946. In the 1950s and early 1960s its economy ranked as the second most progressive in Asia, next to that of Japan. After 1965, when Ferdinand E. Marcos became president, the nation experienced economic problems and social unrest, especially from the 1970s, when corruption and cronyism (the practice of appointing friends to well-paid posts regardless of their qualifications) took hold. In 1972, Marcos declared a state of emergency and placed the country under martial law to stifle unrest and control economic development. By his third term in

1981, democratic institutions in the country had severely eroded, foreign debt ballooned, and the country's economy plummeted. In less than 20 years, the Philippines had gone from relative prosperity to becoming the "sick man of Asia."

Read more: http://www.nationsencyclopedia.com/economies/Asia-and-the-Pacific/Philippines-OVERVIEW-OF-ECONOMY.html#ixzz3rhgejKlq

 

 

[haroots2]

cronyism (the practice of appointing friends to well-paid posts regardless of their qualifications)

 

Bakit ngayon hindi na cronyism ang tawag pero friends pa rin ni Pnoy ang inaappoint and hindi rin qualified.

 

Para hindi OT.

Marcos looks good because by comparison to other presidents before and after him are under achievers. But that doesn't mean he is a great leader. In comparison to other world leaders, barya lang siya,

[filibustero]

Myth because blind loyalist failed to face the fact that marcos never built more schools that all his successors combined...kung blackjack ito buta na bumubunot pa eh kaya yun segway.

 

Back to basics tayo...Granted inutil si PNoy compared to PGMA and all the presidents we have, yun 86 thousand classrooms built from 2010 to 2014 which i quoted from a news report a few post back is still more than the 17,000 Marcos built in what? 20 years? Magiging fact ba yun sinasabi na si marcos ang may pinakamaraming napagawang classrooms sa lahat ng sumunod sa kanya combined?

 

Indeed...Numbers don't lie

Still sticking to the 17,000 in 20 years? Here's an excerpt from Marcos' 1970 SONA:

 

In education, we have confronted the short-run and immediate problems forthrightly and successfully. We had a total of 49,000 elementary school classes added to the public schools system from 1966 to 1969; we produced 90,986 classrooms. This compares favorably with the 800 classrooms produced or constructed from 1962 to 1965, when the total number of new classes was 48,000. Thus, we have favorably solved the problem of accommodation in the schools, which was a principal cause of poor instruction and of a high dropout rate.

 

That's basically what FM [claims to have] accomplished during his first term alone (1965-1969). Like I cited in my previous post, Marcos already [claims to have] built 17,000 classrooms in 1967, two years into his first term. Compare this to the 57,488 classrooms GMA built during her second term (2004-2009). Note also the 40 year gap, which means we should also factor in population - which is considerably lower during Marcos' time. Meaning, he built more classrooms during his time than GMA did in hers, when the population of the Philippines was significantly lower. This is important when you speak of targetting an ideal clasroom-student ratio (the government targets 50 students per classroom, but private schools peg it at 35 I think).

 

Same goes with the 86,000 classrooms you said PNoy built from 2010-2014. Here's a summary of the data posted by the forum members here:

 

Marcos (1966-1969)[3 years]: 90,000

GMA (2004-2009)[5 years]: 57,000

PNoy (2010-2014)[4 years]: 86,000

 

Indeed, numbers don't lie.

Edited November 17, 2015 by filibustero

[rooster69ph]

 

Its speculative na kung di naging presidente si Marcos hindi tayo magkakaroon ng magagandang infrastructure? Wrong! That is a fact! Kasi si Diosdado Macapagal sa buong term nya 500 classrooms lang napagawa si Marcos, a whopping 17,000! Pagsama-samahin mo man presidente mula kay Cory at Ngoyngoy hindi pa din yan matatapatan. So Anong speculative dito?

 

 

 

 

Yes, I am sticking to the numbers because this was the argument presented ...

 

SO therefore as I said, the burden of proof is on the one who claimed that he built more classrooms than all of the presidents that came after combined.

[rooster69ph]

 

Note also the 40 year gap, which means we should also factor in population - which is considerably lower during Marcos' time. Meaning, he built more classrooms during his time than GMA did in hers, when the population of the Philippines was significantly lower. This is important when you speak of targetting an ideal clasroom-student ratio (the government targets 50 students per classroom, but private schools peg it at 35 I think).

 

Good point ...

 

We know that the student to classroom ratio currently is not ideal. Out of my personal curiosity ... I wonder what is the ratio during Marcos time? How many students are there in a class.

 

Consider also that you factored in other variables, then i guess other factors will also have to be considered just to be fair. For example you mentioned about the "40 year gap". I supposed then it is fair to assume that the classrooms built then would have undergone repairs, both major and minor ones that needs funding. This would obviously eat up on the number of newly built classrooms due to limited funding. Also we may want to consider whether these classrooms are comparable as far as capacity and specs.

 

This is not to start another argument regarding ideal classroom-student ratio but just some things to ponder on in lieu of your comment.

[filibustero]

Good point ...

 

We know that the student to classroom ratio currently is not ideal. Out of my personal curiosity ... I wonder what is the ratio during Marcos time? How many students are there in a class.

 

Consider also that you factored in other variables, then i guess other factors will also have to be considered just to be fair. For example you mentioned about the "40 year gap". I supposed then it is fair to assume that the classrooms built then would have undergone repairs, both major and minor ones that needs funding. This would obviously eat up on the number of newly built classrooms due to limited funding. Also we may want to consider whether these classrooms are comparable as far as capacity and specs.

 

This is not to start another argument regarding ideal classroom-student ratio but just some things to ponder on in lieu of your comment.

I have no idea what the target student-classroom ratio was back then. But let's use the information in the 1970 SONA shall we. Because they used "new class" vis-a-vis classroom. I would suppose a "new class" means a new class of Grade 1 students that should fit in one classroom. How many they are, well you can do some research to satisfy your curiosity. But according to FM, from 1962-1965 only 800 classrooms were produced when the total number of new classes was 48,000. So that's a shortage of 47,200 classrooms. To close that gap plus the additional 49,000 new classes from 1966-1969, FM built almost 91,000 classrooms in the same period. That's actually still 5,000 classrooms short but that's way better than the original 47,200 shortage. Now if we assume that the predecessor of his predecessor did not have a classroom backlog, that would mean FM need only build more classrooms proportionate to the increase in student population every year. Around 14,000 classrooms per year if you average out the new classes from 1962-1969. And to think GMA only targeted 6,000 classrooms per year. So it shouldn't be a surprise that PNoy is in a mad rush to build tens of thousands of classrooms just to close the gap the way FM did. Oh, and Diosdado Macapagal was the predecessor of FM so I guess not prioritizing classrooms is a Macapagal thing.

 

As to the matter of subsequent repair of classrooms that could eat up funding for new classrooms, well I would suggest that you look into the 86,000 PNoy figures that you cited. Because we are sure that the 90,000+ classrooms FM built were all new and followed a distinct "Marcos" design. Which means it must be shown that the 86,000 did not include repaired Marcos classrooms and are all brand new PNoy rooms. As to comparability of capacity and specs, well I don't know how we should compare. I graduated from a public elementary school and I know what a Marcos classroom looks like. Can't say the same for how a PNoy classroom looks like though. Not even sure if they still use those wood bench-desks that sit two people at a time and not single arm chairs like the ones we used in my private high school and university.

[rooster69ph]

I have no idea what the target student-classroom ratio was back then. But let's use the information in the 1970 SONA shall we. Because they used "new class" vis-a-vis classroom. I would suppose a "new class" means a new class of Grade 1 students that should fit in one classroom. How many they are, well you can do some research to satisfy your curiosity. But according to FM, from 1962-1965 only 800 classrooms were produced when the total number of new classes was 48,000. So that's a shortage of 47,200 classrooms. To close that gap plus the additional 49,000 new classes from 1966-1969, FM built almost 91,000 classrooms in the same period. That's actually still 5,000 classrooms short but that's way better than the original 47,200 shortage. Now if we assume that the predecessor of his predecessor did not have a classroom backlog, that would mean FM need only build more classrooms proportionate to the increase in student population every year. Around 14,000 classrooms per year if you average out the new classes from 1962-1969. And to think GMA only targeted 6,000 classrooms per year. So it shouldn't be a surprise that PNoy is in a mad rush to build tens of thousands of classrooms just to close the gap the way FM did. Oh, and Diosdado Macapagal was the predecessor of FM so I guess not prioritizing classrooms is a Macapagal thing.

 

As to the matter of subsequent repair of classrooms that could eat up funding for new classrooms, well I would suggest that you look into the 86,000 PNoy figures that you cited. Because we are sure that the 90,000+ classrooms FM built were all new and followed a distinct "Marcos" design. Which means it must be shown that the 86,000 did not include repaired Marcos classrooms and are all brand new PNoy rooms. As to comparability of capacity and specs, well I don't know how we should compare. I graduated from a public elementary school and I know what a Marcos classroom looks like. Can't say the same for how a PNoy classroom looks like though. Not even sure if they still use those wood bench-desks that sit two people at a time and not single arm chairs like the ones we used in my private high school and university.

 

You can google up...deped have a manual on current classroom specs. Not by this admin but by the previous one. I think it was sec lapus time.

 

Anyway, so tell me now does your research proved that marcos built more classrooms than all the presidents that came after him combined as one claimed? Is that a fact or a myth?

Edited November 18, 2015 by rooster69ph

[filibustero]

You can google up...deped have a manual on current classroom specs. Not by this admin but by the previous one. I think it was sec lapus time.

Anyway, so tell me now does your research proved that marcos built more classrooms than all the presidents that came after him combined as one claimed? Is that a fact or a myth?

Since it was you that brought up the classroom quality issue, then maybe you can provide us with your research.

 

And i don't have to prove FM built more classrooms than all of his successors combined because I never made that claim.

[rooster69ph]

Since it was you that brought up the classroom quality issue, then maybe you can provide us with your research.

And i don't have to prove FM built more classrooms than all of his successors combined because I never made that claim.

Thanks but no thanks ... It won't provide any value added anyway to proving my point that the poster's statement that marcos built more classrooms than all succeeding presidents combined is all but a myth.

 

As i said i raise it up not to start an argument but for you to ponder on. I know the difference myself. Seen it. If you're interested then i think i've given you enough leads.

[Eddy Syet]

Thanks but no thanks ... It won't provide any value added anyway to proving my point that the poster's statement that marcos built more classrooms than all succeeding presidents combined is all but a myth.

 

As i said i raise it up not to start an argument but for you to ponder on. I know the difference myself. Seen it. If you're interested then i think i've given you enough leads.

 

Of course, it's a myth!

 

Madali lang naman magsabi na mas maraming naitayong classrooms si Marcos than all the other presidents after him combined. Maski ako kaya ko i-claim yun eh.