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South China/West Philippine Sea


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#61 mata_hari

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Posted 16 July 2011 - 01:03 PM

Let's set aside all the talk about being unpatriotic and a coward and talk about reality.

In one of the coup attempts versus the Cory gov't, a group of mutinous marines gathered around the Libis area to launch an attack on Camp Aguinaldo. A Sikorsky helicopter flown by loyalist airmen was monitoring their movement from above. Shots were fired at the helicopter by the rebel forces forcing the Sikorssy to fly out of harms way. Then a few minutes later two US Navy F4 Phantom fighter planes flew low as in very low where the marines were positioned. They flew in such a way that the marines below will clearly see the wide array of bombs and rockets strapped under the wings of the F4. Ang tawag dun a "persuasion flight". Then a young marine 2nd Lt spoke over the radio courtesy of a usiserong media man. The marine officer sounded very tense and he said. "Ayan po bobombahin na po kami dito, kung pwede po sana mag people power po sana kayo para huwag kaming mabomba". Those who heard this burst into laughter. A few more minutes the marines broke ranks and left the area and the coup attempt ended in a failure.

Now what if China would not be diplomatic about the Spratlys and instead send not just a flight of 2 but a squadron of MIG fighter planes over the Spratly in a "persuasion flight" formation, what would you expect the Pinoy soldiers do?? Dead heroes maybe.
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#62 jopoc

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Posted 16 July 2011 - 03:47 PM

I answered your question regarding the mutual defense treaty. If we get attacked by China and the US adheres to the treaty, we will fight side by side with the Americans.

Can we do anything if the Chinese annex our region of the Spratlys? Again, if we so decide to go to war with China over the Spratlys alone and not with the USA, the AFP is gonna get a decimation of epic proportions.



see how inconsistent you are....

without the americans....we dont fight because we have nothing to use against them.

with the american, we fight.... but what will we use to fight the chinese? do you honestly think the americans will let the filipinos operate their battleships or let the filipinos fly their fighter jets? :lol:




But if I were you, I'd practice on grovelling while crawling on my knees trying to surrender so they would take pity and not k*ll me.



HAHAHAHAHAHAHA....... :lol: :lol:

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Posted 16 July 2011 - 05:33 PM

see how inconsistent you are....

without the americans....we dont fight because we have nothing to use against them.

with the american, we fight.... but what will we use to fight the chinese? do you honestly think the americans will let the filipinos operate their battleships or let the filipinos fly their fighter jets?

Inconsistent? How am I inconsistent?

Exactly. Obviously, we will fight side by side with the Americans. How would we fight the Chinese alone with much inferior military resources?

Did I even imply that the Americans will let Filipinos operate their battleships and fly their fighter jets?

Let's set aside all the talk about being unpatriotic and a coward and talk about reality.

In one of the coup attempts versus the Cory gov't, a group of mutinous marines gathered around the Libis area to launch an attack on Camp Aguinaldo. A Sikorsky helicopter flown by loyalist airmen was monitoring their movement from above. Shots were fired at the helicopter by the rebel forces forcing the Sikorssy to fly out of harms way. Then a few minutes later two US Navy F4 Phantom fighter planes flew low as in very low where the marines were positioned. They flew in such a way that the marines below will clearly see the wide array of bombs and rockets strapped under the wings of the F4. Ang tawag dun a "persuasion flight". Then a young marine 2nd Lt spoke over the radio courtesy of a usiserong media man. The marine officer sounded very tense and he said. "Ayan po bobombahin na po kami dito, kung pwede po sana mag people power po sana kayo para huwag kaming mabomba". Those who heard this burst into laughter. A few more minutes the marines broke ranks and left the area and the coup attempt ended in a failure.

Now what if China would not be diplomatic about the Spratlys and instead send not just a flight of 2 but a squadron of MIG fighter planes over the Spratly in a "persuasion flight" formation, what would you expect the Pinoy soldiers do?? Dead heroes maybe.

Natawa ako dito. I wonder if two posters here would still be preaching bravado if they were sent to the Spratlys (granting they reach it) and were given flybys by Chinese MIGS threatening to bomb them. Posted Image

Edited by TheSmilingBandit, 17 July 2011 - 03:06 AM.


#64 KareemJabbar

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Posted 16 July 2011 - 08:50 PM

Natawa ako dito. I wonder if two posters here would still be preaching bravado if they were sent to the Spratlys (granting they reach it) and were given flybys by Chinese MIGS threatening to bomb them. Posted Image


But we have anti-aircraft guns, takenote guns and not SAM's. I just dont know if it can shoot down modern planes like MIG's and SU-27's. :lol:


Here is China's Air force Strength.

Force Size
Strength: 400,000


Aircraft
Bomber/attack: 600
Fighter: 1,300
AWACS: 4
Large transport: 80
Tanker: 10
Special mission: 30


Surface-to-Air Missile
Manpower: 210,000
SAM launcher: 500
AA gun: 16,000
Airborne Force
Manpower: 24,000


and here is our only Air Defense weapons.

Posted Image
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#65 jopoc

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Posted 16 July 2011 - 09:41 PM

Inconsistent? How am I inconsistent?

Exactly. Obviously, we will fight side by side with the Americans. How would we fight the Chinese alone with much inferior military resources?

Did I even imply that the Americans will let Filipinos operate their battleships and fly their fighter jets?



what will we use in fighting the chinese, assuming the american will fight with us?

#66 camiar

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Posted 17 July 2011 - 12:36 AM

Natawa ako dito. I wonder if two posters here would still be preaching bravado if they were sent to the Spratlys (granting they reach it) and were given flybys by Chinese MIGS threatening to bomb them. Posted Image


If I'm ever sent to the Spratlys, I would do so without complaint. It would be my duty as a Filipino.

I'm appalled to see so many of you here with the same "resistance is futile" mindset, and even be so shameless in denigrating your own country in the internet.

If you read my post carefully, I was not preaching bravado. I am preaching quiet, dignified resistance. We may be weaker militarily, but we should behave with quiet resolve in the face of Chinese's calculated aggression in the Spratlys. We know anyway that they wouldn't attack -- they are just testing how far they can pressure us. We also know that we have our ASEAN neighbors and US Mutual Defense Treaty to go back on if ever the Chinese would be so stupid to go to a shooting war with us. We should react calmly, quietly and with dignity.

What you do instead is humiliate yourself by bawling out and wailing how weak we are and how futile it is to stand up to the all powerful Chinese.

I would understand if you're a pro-China Fil-Chi. But if you are a full blooded Filipino with that kind of loser mentality, I have no words to describe you.

To give people here a perspective of what is at stake, look at the pictures below:

Attached File  Spratlys Islands 1.jpg   74.46KB   0 downloads

See how close the Spratlys are to the Philippines and how far away China is.

Attached File  Kalayaan Island 1.jpg   57.55KB   0 downloads

Kalayaan Island viewed from 1.5 km elevation.

Attached File  Spratlys Chinese Outpost 1.jpg   57.52KB   0 downloads

Chinese military outpost South of Kalayaan Island viewed from 1.5 km elevation.

Edited by TheSmilingBandit, 17 July 2011 - 03:08 AM.


#67 artvader

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Posted 17 July 2011 - 12:58 AM

Look at that: the Chinese outpost looks like a gun aimed at the Kalayaan Island. Is it a subliminal message?

#68 jopoc

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Posted 17 July 2011 - 09:03 AM

Look at that: the Chinese outpost looks like a gun aimed at the Kalayaan Island. Is it a subliminal message?


probably the reason why some posters are freaking scared of the chinese..... subliminal message sent and received. :lol: :lol:

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Posted 17 July 2011 - 04:39 PM

what will we use in fighting the chinese, assuming the american will fight with us?

We'll use the same military resources that are with us just to have a semblance of a navy/army fighting the Chinese. We will have the most powerful ally in the world in terms of military strength fighting side by side with us so we won't have to worry about the Chinese subs sinking our transport ships and Chinese MIGS blowing our transport planes out of the sky. In my opinion, two carrier battle groups in the vicinity of the Spratlys would be enough to make China think twice.

Edited by inverbrass, 17 July 2011 - 04:41 PM.


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Posted 17 July 2011 - 04:59 PM

If I'm ever sent to the Spratlys, I would do so without complaint. It would be my duty as a Filipino.

I'm appalled to see so many of you here with the same "resistance is futile" mindset, and even be so shameless in denigrating your own country in the internet.

If you read my post carefully, I was not preaching bravado. I am preaching quiet, dignified resistance. We may be weaker militarily, but we should behave with quiet resolve in the face of Chinese's calculated aggression in the Spratlys. We know anyway that they wouldn't attack -- they are just testing how far they can pressure us. We also know that we have our ASEAN neighbors and US Mutual Defense Treaty to go back on if ever the Chinese would be so stupid to go to a shooting war with us. We should react calmly, quietly and with dignity.

What you do instead is humiliate yourself by bawling out and wailing how weak we are and how futile it is to stand up to the all powerful Chinese.

I would understand if you're a pro-China Fil-Chi. But if you are a full blooded Filipino with that kind of loser mentality, I have no words to describe you.

Haha! Loser mentality you say? I'm just being realistic unlike you who lives in his dreamworld saying we should put up a quiet, dignified resistance. So tell me, how can we match word with deed when you say that we should put up a quiet, dignified resistance while the Chinese are bombing the Spratlys and the US somehow reneges on its mutual defense treaty with us?

So you're talking tough knowing that there is a Mutual Defense Treaty with the US and our ASEAN neighbors to back us up. I was talking about a scenario wherein we would battle the Chinese by ourselves. I wonder if you would still be talking tough if we were to go toe to toe with the Chinese by ourselves and you were a soldier assigned to the Spratlys and Chinese MIGS are doing flybys threatening to bomb you to kingdom come. Wasn't it you who posted this? "There are lots of ways we can deter China from using its military advantage to take over the Kalayaan Island. One way is to grovel submissively to the Chinese." I wouldn't be surprised if you did this while the Chinese are hovering above with their MIGS . Posted Image






#71 jopoc

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Posted 17 July 2011 - 09:26 PM

We'll use the same military resources that are with us just to have a semblance of a navy/army fighting the Chinese. We will have the most powerful ally in the world in terms of military strength fighting side by side with us so we won't have to worry about the Chinese subs sinking our transport ships and Chinese MIGS blowing our transport planes out of the sky. In my opinion, two carrier battle groups in the vicinity of the Spratlys would be enough to make China think twice.



so you are saying that with america fighting with us, our outdated battleship or boats will be unsinkable and our planes indestructible? :ohmy:

#72 *kalel*

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Posted 17 July 2011 - 10:50 PM

for a third world country like us, armed forces is a least priority

#73 camiar

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Posted 18 July 2011 - 12:36 AM

Haha! Loser mentality you say? I'm just being realistic unlike you who lives in his dreamworld saying we should put up a quiet, dignified resistance. So tell me, how can we match word with deed when you say that we should put up a quiet, dignified resistance while the Chinese are bombing the Spratlys and the US somehow reneges on its mutual defense treaty with us?

So you're talking tough knowing that there is a Mutual Defense Treaty with the US and our ASEAN neighbors to back us up. I was talking about a scenario wherein we would battle the Chinese by ourselves. I wonder if you would still be talking tough if we were to go toe to toe with the Chinese by ourselves and you were a soldier assigned to the Spratlys and Chinese MIGS are doing flybys threatening to bomb you to kingdom come.


Where in any of my post did I talk tough? I have always talked about being level headed about our weaknesses.

On the contrary, it was you who is bawling about how weak you are and how useless it is for people like you to resist the Chinese. It is also you who is now so overconfident in saying that IF the USA is your ally you would fight, and "just a couple of carrier groups" would keep the Chinese away... as if the US can now even afford to put even one battlegroup to back us up on our territorial dispute.

Your inconsistency stinks. You're just being realistic? Realistic na pala and tawag ngayon sa mga walang bayag.

As in.. "mga pards, kayo na lang ang humarap sa mga instik... realistic kasi ako eh..." HAHAHAHAHA! pathetic...

Wasn't it you who posted this? "There are lots of ways we can deter China from using its military advantage to take over the Kalayaan Island. One way is to grovel submissively to the Chinese."


Hahaha! That sarcastic statement was posted specifically for you to chew on. Have you been practicing your grovelling lately?

Edited by camiar, 18 July 2011 - 01:03 AM.


#74 camiar

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Posted 18 July 2011 - 12:48 AM

Did I even imply that our outdated battleships or boats will be unsinkable and our planes indestructible?Posted Image Since the US would be on our side, we won't have to worry about Chinese subs torpedoing our transport ships because US Los Angeles/Virginia class submarines (hunter-killers) would be on the prowl tracking down Chinese subs that dare to torpedo our transport/battle ships.

This is hilarious! You are so ignorant on US policy on military engagements.
You really believe the US will fight our wars for us? Sure they will give us military hardware and intelligence support, but to think that they will act like our personal body guards and fight in our place? You're so naive.

Don't believe everything you read in Tom Clancy's novels.

Edited by camiar, 18 July 2011 - 12:59 AM.


#75 jopoc

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Posted 18 July 2011 - 06:36 AM

Did I even imply that our outdated battleships or boats will be unsinkable and our planes indestructible?Posted Image



yes you did. :lol:


Since the US would be on our side, we won't have to worry about Chinese subs torpedoing our transport ships because US Los Angeles/Virginia class submarines (hunter-killers) would be on the prowl tracking down Chinese subs that dare to torpedo our transport/battle ships.


after thought (or palusot). you should have mentioned this a post ago. :lol:

but i still think this thing you are saying lacks factual basis.

but let me ask you, did the US commit any kind of battleship or submarine or figther plane in case they fight with us?

you must be have a basis for saying that the US los angeles/virginia will be used in fighting the chinese. can you show us your basis?

or is this purely speculative like the US will be embarassed if they dont honor the treaty (something to the effect)? :lol:

#76 camiar

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Posted 18 July 2011 - 10:27 AM

Nope. I don't. Have you been practicing it? After all, it was you who posted it. This was probably what was on your mind when you thought of engaging the Chinese in warfare without the US. Posted Image

Then you and your "realistic" friends better start practicing. Don't worry about those of us living in dreamworlds, we may be already dead by the time the almighty Chinese reaches your hiding hole.

#77 camiar

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Posted 18 July 2011 - 11:03 AM


Speaking of inconsistency, take a look at yourself in the mirror before throwing allegations that I'm inconsistent:

We also know that we have our ASEAN neighbors and US Mutual Defense Treaty to go back on if ever the Chinese would be so stupid to go to a shooting war with us. We should react calmly, quietly and with dignity.-
Diba ikaw nagsabi nyan camiar?


Yet in another post, you say this-You really believe the US will fight our wars for us? Sure they will give us military hardware and intelligence support, but to think that they will act like our personal body guards and fight in our place? You're so naive.


You're a joke.Posted Image

By the way, Tom Clancy has fact-based books and not just novels.







Yes I said it. And you didn't understand.

I talk about behaving with dignified calm when there's no fighting yet. Then do your duty without complain if the shooting starts because ultimately, it is left to us alone, not our neighbors and friends, to defend and fight for ourselves. I would be willing to use whatever I can to fight the enemy if that situation comes. It is our duty to defend our freedom and and our families' safety no matter how strong our enemies are. During the Roman period, the Israelis fought with spears, swords and rocks at Masada against the romans' much more superior ballistas and trebuchets, and even committed suicide to deny the Romans the pleasure of having them surrender. Today, even the Palestinian children hurl rocks at the Israeli soldiers. They have a sense of duty to fight the enemy, no matter how futile it seems. Of course, "realistic" people like you would rather have somebody else do the fighting for them, or grovel and side with the enemy.

So Tom Clancy writes novels based on facts. Do I have to tell you that they still are fiction based on facts? I just did. Tom Clancy writes books for the Americans to feel good about their Military. So, I see you've been reading his book on SSNs. In that book he portrays Filipino pilots as drunk, womanizing slobs piloting delapidated hand-me-down fighter jets; Subic Naval base as a rotting port, neglected years after the Americans left, and the Filipino President and politicians as leftist traitors who would sell the country out in the name of their communist ideals. And you believed that! That's probably why you shared his disdain of Filipinos for pushing the US Navy out of Subic.

Armchair strategists. We get the likes of you a dime a dozen.

Edited by camiar, 18 July 2011 - 11:24 AM.


#78 jopoc

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Posted 18 July 2011 - 11:56 AM

Really? I didn't know I implied something like what you've been alleging. Can you point it out?


i already highlighted the portion i was referring to.
yes, you did imply that we will be safe from being crushed/destroyed/defeated (which was your concern if the americans will not help us, hence, you said that we need not to worry if the americans will be at our side).

denial mode ka na ba na yun ang ibig mong sabihin? :lol:



It's not really my problem if you can't comprehend and put two and two together. You're entitled to your opinion that "palusot" ako no matter how warped it is.

Really? What made you say I lack basis?

Whoever said anything about commitment? Did the US commit anything at all when Iraq invaded Kuwait? I don't think the US would commit to anything unless war has already begun.

Basis? Haha! Why? What do you think the US will use against Chinese subs? The US could also use destroyers but a hunter-killer would be more appropriate when engaging a Chinese sub. Again, what do you think will the US use against Chinese subs?




ok, if you got basis, then show me any proof such as press release/official statement, etc. from the US on what weapons/vessels/submarines/planes they will be using if they go to war with us against china.

show me any concrete proof (not reasons) that US will be bring hunter subs to the spratlys.

#79 jopoc

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Posted 18 July 2011 - 12:06 PM

Really? I didn't know I implied something like what you've been alleging. Can you point it out?


i already highlighted the portion i was referring to.
yes, you did imply that we will be safe from being crushed/destroyed/defeated (which was your concern if the americans will not help us, hence, you said that we need not to worry if the americans will be at our side).

denial mode ka na ba na yun ang ibig mong sabihin? :lol:



It's not really my problem if you can't comprehend and put two and two together. You're entitled to your opinion that "palusot" ako no matter how warped it is.

Really? What made you say I lack basis?

Whoever said anything about commitment? Did the US commit anything at all when Iraq invaded Kuwait? I don't think the US would commit to anything unless war has already begun.

Basis? Haha! Why? What do you think the US will use against Chinese subs? The US could also use destroyers but a hunter-killer would be more appropriate when engaging a Chinese sub. Again, what do you think will the US use against Chinese subs?




ok, if you got basis, then show me any proof such as press release/official statement, etc. from the US on what weapons/vessels/submarines/planes they will be using if they go to war with us against china.

show me any concrete FACTUAL proof (not reasons) that US will be bring hunter subs to the spratlys.

#80 jopoc

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Posted 18 July 2011 - 12:21 PM

Hahahaha! I almost fell off my seat reading this post. Again, it isn't my problem if you can't put two and two together. Posted Image

Using hunter-killers and perhaps destroyers to counter Chinese subs is my opinion and if you're too dense to get it, it ain't my problem.


you almost fell off your seat because that is the only way for you to ran away from me... cornered ka nanaman sa debate, as usual.

good thing you admitted that your arguments are only based on your opinions (more of a guess to me, check your dictionary on the difference between an opinion and a guess :lol: ), and not on facts. it only shows how weak your arguments are.



You didn't answer my question. What do you think the US will use against Chinese subs? Patrol boats ba? Posted Image



i dont know. it could be anything from sending us pea shooters to nuclear weapons. i am not obama to say what the US will be sending.
unlike you, i dont make opinions without any factual basis. :lol:


hindi ko ugali namag-argue gamit ay HULA. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Edited by jopoc, 18 July 2011 - 12:28 PM.





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