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Larry Legend or King James


dfgvan

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  • 3 months later...

@nick, wag natin isama ung mga intangibles... skill set lang...

 

@JK, honestly, he may reach at max 4 rings... they may get the back to back this year... but i doubt he'll get the 3 peat... but we're talking about skills right? none of the who'd you rather touch the ball in the dying seconds stuff (although, hands done that's bird is better than lbj at that department).

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@rennon, what are your basis

 

@Nick, athleticism doesn't comprise the whole skill set...

Maybe you forgot to read the first page...

Anywho I'll just repost...

 

Since we are getting off topic at the other thread:

 

Lebron James

Regular Season

GP GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% RPG APG SPG BPG PPG

Career 689 688 39.8 .484 .331 .747 7.2 6.8 1.7 .8 27.6

 

PlayOffs

Career 115 115 43.4 .469 .312 .745 8.7 6.7 1.7 1.0 28.5

 

 

Larry Bird

Regular Season

GP GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% RPG APG SPG BPG PPG

Career[17] 897 870 38.4 .496 .376 .886 10.0 6.3 1.7 0.8 24.3

 

PlayOffs

Career[17] 164 162 42.0 .472 .321 .890 10.3 6.5 1.8 0.9 23.8

 

 

 

Aside from these let's look at the skill sets, for each skill pick who is better:

Shooting

Ball Handling

Rebounding

Passing (Not limited to assists)

Steals

Blocks

Off Ball Movement

On Ball Defense

Off Ball Defense

Slashing

Post Up

Physicality/Strength

Jumping

Dunking

 

No Intangibles like heart, clutch, leadership, etc.

 

I'll Start

Shooting Bird

Ball Handling Bird

Rebounding Bird

Passing(Not just assists) Tied

Steals Tied

Blocks Tied

Off Ball Movement Bird

On Ball Defense LBJ

Off Ball Defense Bird

Slashing LBJ

Post Up Bird

Physicality/Strength Bird

Jumping LBJ

Dunking LBJ

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TO's, touches...

 

 

I placed bird over james in terms of strength because bird plays mostly inside in defense... he bangs bodies with pfs and cs...

he plays pf a lot of times whenever parish or mchale is not on the floor...

Edited by dfgvan
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Strength:

1. strength is not based on physical built...

e.g. bradley and pacquiao... who hits harder? who is stronger?

vin baker and gilliam? who can back their guards better on the post?

 

2. does being an offensive option means strength? who is physically stronger? willis or wilkins?

 

3. does blocking shots from the weak side translate to strength? during the rockets/celtics finals bird was given a part time task to guard olajuwon... that is on ball post up defense... in fairness to james there aren't a lot of post players nowadays so it's hard to compare with that... bird, during the dream team would play 4 or 5 whenever he and pippen are on the floor..

 

4. mchale guarded wilkins on the switch... bird guards drj a much stronger slasher than wilkins...

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1. Olajuwon can back Shaq on the post but it doesn't mean Olajuwon is stronger than Shaq.

 

2. I was just saying that Larry covered Willis to preserve his energy. When you try to stop a primary scorer, you waste your energy trying to stop him. Remember, Larry was the main scorer of Boston so he also had to score. I never said nor implied that being an offensive option means strength.

 

3. I'm just saying that James can play the 5 in a small ball line-up. I don't recall a time Larry played the 5 but I remembered him play the 2 in a big line-up featuring Parish, Mchale, Walton, Bird and DJ. That was the game against the Bucks in the 1986 Eastern Conference Finals.

 

4. Nope, it was really Mchale who guarded Wilkins. I remember in the 1988 Eastern semi-finals, Mchale guarded Wilkins and Bird guarded Willis.

 

 

i thought you were posting reasons as to why you consider james to be stronger than bird?

1. au contraire olajuwon didn't backed up shaq, he used his footwork...

2. conditioning and energy do come with strength... based on your parameter then, james was guarding jason terry not dirk nowiski, james was guarding tp and not duncan (all are finals references)...

i thought you were posting reasons as to why you consider james to be stronger than bird? that was why you posted that bird wasn't guarding wilkins...

3. yes james CAN... but has he? i really don't want to put what ifs in to consideration... bird played 5... bird, pippen, mullin, mj, stockton...

4. please watch it again... there were switches before wilkins receives the ball...

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Ok. Physical evidence states that James is stronger than Bird. You may have based your judgement on the banging inside but we're talking about strength here. James is 260-270 pounds while Larry is 220-230 pounds. James is definitely more muscular than Bird and the build is really the basis of strength.

 

 

1. Perhaps, you should watch replays of the 1995 NBA Finals. Olajuwon backed up Shaq to a certain extent and used his footwork in the paint to score via fall away jumper, hook shot or layup.

 

2. I was agreeing to your post that Bird guarded opposing power forwards. I'm saying that Bird guarded Willis, instead of Wilkins to preserve his energy. As I said, he's also Boston's main scorer. Normally, a coach would like someone other than his main scorer to guard the other team's main scorer so that your main scorer could concentrate more on scoring instead of stopping the other team's scorer. But, there are also exceptions, Jordan defended the other team's primary scorer.

 

3. When did Bird play the 5?

 

4. I watched the 1988 Eastern semis and most of the time, it wasn't Bird guarding Wilkins.

 

1. he didn't, shaq allowed it until low post... because hakeem was receiving the ball mid post,

built is not the basis of strength... an ant can lift alot larger than his size...

kidding aside... we are considering basketball so we should consider all that banging inside... the things that happen in the court more than what you see physically...

 

2. first of all, wala namang jordan issue... natatapos ang conversation pag pinasok na si jordan eh... :P :P :P

what was james reason before lagi sya napapagod dahil sobrang babad sa paglalaro... conditioning and strength...

 

3. dream team, i've posted it twice already and posted the lineup when it happened

 

4. don't just watch one game... watch the whole series... wag mong panuorin yung pataasan ng ihi nung dalawa... early part of that game bantay ni wilkins si bird...

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Since we are getting off topic at the other thread:

 

Aside from these let's look at the skill sets, for each skill pick who is better:

Shooting

Ball Handling

Rebounding

Passing (Not limited to assists)

Steals

Blocks

Off Ball Movement

On Ball Defense

Off Ball Defense

Slashing

Post Up

Physicality/Strength

Jumping

Dunking

 

No Intangibles like heart, clutch, leadership, etc.

 

Shooting : Bird

Ball Handling : LBJ

Rebounding : Bird

Passing : Bird

Steals : Bird

Blocks : Even

Off Ball Movement : Bird

On Ball Defense : LBJ

Off Ball Defense : Bird

Slashing : LBJ

Post Up : Bird

Physicality/Strength : LBJ

Jumping : LBJ

Dunking : LBJ

 

Athletically, LBJ will win this one. But skills-wise, Bird has the better skills. He shoots better, he passed better, he rebounds better and his defense is also good. He did all of this even without being gifted with an athletic body.

 

LBJ is good and part of his greatness is in his athleticism. He barrels his way into the paint, he dunks over people and along the way he travels (and gets a way with it) a lot. LBJ gets assist but he doesn't pass better than Bird.

 

Larry Bird is still the better player just by looking at the skills. Now if you add the intangibles. It is Larry Bird by a mile.

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1. What I know is Olajuwon received the ball in the low post and backed O'Neal down then would either go to his right for the jump hook or spin to his left for the fall away. Most of the time, he uses the dream shake before jumping and shooting either shot. Well, if you think build is not the basis of strength, that's your opinion. Again, just coz Bird was willing to bang inside and James doesn't doesn't mean Bird is stronger than James. Willingness to bang inside and strength are two different things.

 

2. I'm just saying that Jordan is an exception.

 

3. Huh? I watched the games of the Dream Team and I don't recall Larry playing center. Why should he? Ewing and Robinson were there.

 

4. Did you watch the whole series to say that it was Bird guarding Wilkins all throughout the series? Another case in point was against the Pistons. Mchale guarded Dantley and Bird guarded Mahorn. Why? Because Dantley is one of the primary scorers of the Pistons.

 

1. Olajuwon received it mid post para kung mag slack off si shaq, mag jump shot sya... pagsobra dikit ni shaq, magdadrive sya... any ways diskarte ang ginawa nya hindi na sya tungkol sa strangth...

 

2. yep Jordan is an exception at sa usapang basketballl pag may nagbanggit na ng pangalan nya tapos na ang debate di ba?

 

3. there are games na nagtitrip sila sa lineup... watch their elimination game... the 3rd or 4th game i think.... may time dun sa game na ang center ay si bird...

 

4. for most of that series bird guarded wilkins...

 

ganito brod... you are veering away from the topic already... what is the connection of mchale and bird playing defense as to what i proposed on the initial post...

i've given you my position as to why bird is plays stronger than james...

please give your validation as to why james plays stronger?

 

on another point it's not the willingness to bang bodies, it's how you receive it... remember the finals vs dallas wherein james drove to the basket, he was checked and then he flopped, hobbling to the sidelines... a foul was called, reviewing the replays it was an obvious flop.... now is that playing strongly?

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foaPMZxtzx4

 

Shooting : Bird

Ball Handling : LBJ

Rebounding : Bird

Passing : Bird

Steals : Bird

Blocks : Even

Off Ball Movement : Bird

On Ball Defense : LBJ

Off Ball Defense : Bird

Slashing : LBJ

Post Up : Bird

Physicality/Strength : LBJ

Jumping : LBJ

Dunking : LBJ

 

Athletically, LBJ will win this one. But skills-wise, Bird has the better skills. He shoots better, he passed better, he rebounds better and his defense is also good. He did all of this even without being gifted with an athletic body.

 

LBJ is good and part of his greatness is in his athleticism. He barrels his way into the paint, he dunks over people and along the way he travels (and gets a way with it) a lot. LBJ gets assist but he doesn't pass better than Bird.

 

Larry Bird is still the better player just by looking at the skills. Now if you add the intangibles. It is Larry Bird by a mile.

 

thanks for the input

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1359782491[/url]' post='8524112']

 

 

3. I watched the game of the original Dream Team and I don't recall Larry playing center.

 

 

 

Hindi ko alam Kung naging incoherent ka sa pagdefend sa sarili mo ...

 

Pero assuming tama yan sinabi mo, aba'y ilan ba ang naging laro ng dream team? Isa Lang kaya "game"? E papaano Kung Hindi sa game na yun naglaro si Bird ng center? laugh.gif

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Troll alert. laugh.gifDon't feed the dumb vermin. Just make fun of him. He got too humiliated on the Celtics and Lakers thread so he's trying his luck here. laugh.gif

 

 

 

Bro bro, nawawala na tyo s topic. were talking about who is better between LBJ and Bird, nagkakaroon na ako ng kakampi a hehehe.. like ive said i am not an LBJ fan, pero i hate to admit that he really is GOOD, pero mukhang may nakita na ako BETTER than LBJ, KD35.. this KID is gonna be somebody someday.. for me i think LBJ is far stronger than Bird. Bird is more fundamental.while LBJ is more of the fancy type of player..still for me i will go with LBJ

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1359782491[/url]' post='8524112']

 

 

Don't get me wrong, I grew up idolizing Larry and he will always be my favorite player and I think he's way, way better than James overall but I have to give credit where credit is due. James is stronger than Larry.

 

Strength is only one of the many considerations ....

Why don't you just rate them based on the criteria set and prove Bird is really better. Hindi naman siguro mahirap yun. As it is , your bias is showing

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  • 4 weeks later...

sa tingin ko mahirap talagang sabihin kung sino mas magaling sa kanila... different era kasi eh...

 

pero sinusubukan kong mag-imagine, what if naglaro sila ng one-on-one... (hindi yung sitwasyon ngayon ha, matanda na si Bird eh...)

 

Bird and LBJ both on their prime... pag inimagine ko, parang iiwan-iwanan lang ni James si Bird eh...

kasi kung skills lang ang pag-uusapan, mas marami na talagang kayang gawin yung LBJ kesa kay Bird...

 

 

opinion lang po ah..:rolleyes:

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its unfair to compare players from different generations, but its leadership over skills... larry bird wins by a mile.... by LBJ is slowly getting there

 

uhm sir from the first page and also from the thread subtitle... wag nating iconsider yung intangibles...

skill set lang ang pagbasehan natin kung sino ang mas magaling...

 

 

sa tingin ko mahirap talagang sabihin kung sino mas magaling sa kanila... different era kasi eh...

 

pero sinusubukan kong mag-imagine, what if naglaro sila ng one-on-one... (hindi yung sitwasyon ngayon ha, matanda na si Bird eh...)

 

Bird and LBJ both on their prime... pag inimagine ko, parang iiwan-iwanan lang ni James si Bird eh...

kasi kung skills lang ang pag-uusapan, mas marami na talagang kayang gawin yung LBJ kesa kay Bird...

 

 

opinion lang po ah..:rolleyes:

 

sir,

 

based on the criterion set on the first page can you make a score and see who scores higher based on skill sets.

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uhm sir from the first page and also from the thread subtitle... wag nating iconsider yung intangibles...

skill set lang ang pagbasehan natin kung sino ang mas magaling...

 

 

 

 

sir,

 

based on the criterion set on the first page can you make a score and see who scores higher based on skill sets.

 

 

IMHO bossing ha...:rolleyes:

 

Shooting: Bird (although nag-iimprove na din unti-unti si LBJ)

Ball Handling: LBJ (kaya nga nakakapag-PG sya, saka hindi ka naman makakapasok sa luob kung wala nito)

Rebounding: LBJ (siguro malaking bagay din yung athleticism sa rebounding, maganda kumuha ng posisyon si LBJ)

Passing (Not limited to assists): Bird, medyo mas magaling humanap ng kakampi si Bird kesa kay LBJ

Steals: LBJ (base lang sa mga napanuod kong games ni Bird and James ha)

Blocks: LBJ malupit mga block ni LBJ eh... hindi ko tinitignan kung gano kadami ha, tinignan ko kung panu sumusupalpal at nagdedepensa

Off Ball Movement: LBJ, obvious naman, kaya madalas makakuha ng Alley-oop eh...

On Ball Defense: Tie siguro, hindi din matatawaran ang depensa ni Bird eh...

Off Ball Defense: Bird, kitang kita kung paano pinahirapan ni Bird mga binabantayan nya, kahit wla pa hawak na bola...

Slashing: LBJ 9laking bagay yung athleticism nya eh)

Post Up: Bird, parang hindi masyado mahilig sa post up si LBJ, although sa tingin ko, kung susubukan nya, kaya naman

Physicality/Strength: LBJ, (gamit na gamit nya kasi yung built ng katawan nya sa maraming bagay sa luob ng court)

Jumping: LBJ (no need to explain)

Dunking LBJ (no need to explain)

 

 

ayun po!:rolleyes: if you looked at it differently, no need to argue po... just stating how i see things :rolleyes:

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  • 1 year later...

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