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Historical Perspectives


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#1 maxiev

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Posted 17 December 2013 - 09:31 PM

It's been 22 days since I requested a separate sub-forum under the Realm of Thought main forum and two days since I followed this up. Unfortunately, I didn't get a response so I'm creating this sub-forum under the Academics and Sciences sub-forum which I thought to be the most appropriate since historical perspectives may be considered as belonging to the academics field.

Anything to do with history can be posted here. Hoping to read some interesting insights here.
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#2 esteremengoles

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Posted 18 December 2013 - 02:58 PM

What would you like to discuss about history?

#3 filibustero

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Posted 28 December 2013 - 01:05 AM

In view of the upcoming Rizal Day, perhaps it is appropriate to talk about our national hero, Jose P. Rizal. The stories (i.e. historical accounts) of my former history professor, Ambeth Ocampo, always serve to amuse. For instance, it is not unknown to many that Rizal was sort of a playboy given that he has been linked to at least nine (9) women. But what is more interesting is that more than being a playboy, Rizal was a true GM! According to Prof. Ambeth, Rizal frequented brothels while he was in Spain. My hero. Posted Image

#4 maxiev

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Posted 28 December 2013 - 03:41 AM

In view of the upcoming Rizal Day, perhaps it is appropriate to talk about our national hero, Jose P. Rizal. The stories (i.e. historical accounts) of my former history professor, Ambeth Ocampo, always serve to amuse. For instance, it is not unknown to many that Rizal was sort of a playboy given that he has been linked to at least nine (9) women. But what is more interesting is that more than being a playboy, Rizal was a true GM! According to Prof. Ambeth, Rizal frequented brothels while he was in Spain. My hero. Posted Image

According to my great-grandfather, who was a good friend of Rizal, they used to frequent brothels as a matter of curiosity daw. Somehow I find this hard to believe. My great-grandfather travelled with Rizal all over Europe and got to know him as a man with a photographic memory. Once, just to test that memory of his, my great grandfather asked Pepe (that's how he called Rizal) to read off a page of an engineering book and commit to memory what he had just read.

Some months later, my great grandfather retrieved the book and asked Rizal to recite what he had read earlier. According to my great-grandfather, Rizal recited the contents of that page exactly, word for word as if he had just memorized it a few hours ago.

Another time, as they were about to sleep, my great grandfather would see Rizal reading a small book and with his eyes closed, would whisper something inaudible. He asked Rizal if he was praying. According to Rizal he was committing to memory 5 words of German a night which, after 365 days would allow him to converse, even crudely, in the German language.

So he taught himself how to read and speak German!!

#5 oscartamaguchiblackface

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Posted 28 December 2013 - 07:46 PM

Jose Rizal was an extraordinary man even by international standards. He was a polyglot, writer, poet, doctor, sculptor, painter, agriculturist, historian, philosopher. In other words, he was the quintessential renaissance man. Which is why many Europeans looked up to him during his time (and even to this day). Many of them were amazed at the intelligence, wit, and charisma of this small dark Asian. And considering the fact that there were so few Asians living in Europe at that time, the fact that he impressed these Europeans is testament to the greatness of this man.

One can get a better insight into the thoughts of Rizal simply by reading his works. The sarcasm, wit, philosophy and general knowledge found in both the Noli Me Tangere and the El Filibusterismo clearly sets forth the mindset of Jose Rizal. He attacks not only the ruling political class of his time, but even the bad characteristics of the Filipino which I can easily identify with even today. Of course I think the situation today is much worse than it was during Rizal's time. If he were alive today, I wonder what he would have written about present Philippine society.




#6 Bugatti Veyron

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Posted 29 December 2013 - 04:39 AM

Jose Rizal was an extraordinary man even by international standards. He was a polyglot, writer, poet, doctor, sculptor, painter, agriculturist, historian, philosopher. In other words, he was the quintessential renaissance man. Which is why many Europeans looked up to him during his time (and even to this day). Many of them were amazed at the intelligence, wit, and charisma of this small dark Asian. And considering the fact that there were so few Asians living in Europe at that time, the fact that he impressed these Europeans is testament to the greatness of this man.

One can get a better insight into the thoughts of Rizal simply by reading his works. The sarcasm, wit, philosophy and general knowledge found in both the Noli Me Tangere and the El Filibusterismo clearly sets forth the mindset of Jose Rizal. He attacks not only the ruling political class of his time, but even the bad characteristics of the Filipino which I can easily identify with even today. Of course I think the situation today is much worse than it was during Rizal's time. If he were alive today, I wonder what he would have written about present Philippine society.

If Rizal were alive today I have no doubt he would have written all about the evils or society. From corruption, to political dynasties, to flaws in the character of pinoys, he surely would have written these down in a book. But his book would probably be 2, maybe 3 times longer than the Noli because there are so many issues today and life is a lot more complicated now than it was back then. Basically the government during Rizal's time was akin to Marcos' martial law. Filipinos did not have too many rights and were made to comply without question. The Spanish government of Rizal's time was basically dictatorial in nature. It's easier to attack a dictatorship where the enemy is clearly visible rather than invisible entities such as the Napoles plunder scam, the corruption rackets at Customs, DPWH, etc. the unholy alliances within congress and Malacanang, the drug menace, the poverty, and a host of other problems which may have existed during Rizal's time but which were not of epidemic proportions.

#7 sonnyt111

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Posted 31 December 2013 - 02:37 AM

Jose Rizal was an extraordinary man even by international standards. He was a polyglot, writer, poet, doctor, sculptor, painter, agriculturist, historian, philosopher. In other words, he was the quintessential renaissance man. Which is why many Europeans looked up to him during his time (and even to this day). Many of them were amazed at the intelligence, wit, and charisma of this small dark Asian. And considering the fact that there were so few Asians living in Europe at that time, the fact that he impressed these Europeans is testament to the greatness of this man.

One can get a better insight into the thoughts of Rizal simply by reading his works. The sarcasm, wit, philosophy and general knowledge found in both the Noli Me Tangere and the El Filibusterismo clearly sets forth the mindset of Jose Rizal. He attacks not only the ruling political class of his time, but even the bad characteristics of the Filipino which I can easily identify with even today. Of course I think the situation today is much worse than it was during Rizal's time. If he were alive today, I wonder what he would have written about present Philippine society.

Aside from the attributes you mentioned, Rizal was also a member of the propaganda movement but had moderate rather than revolutionary views. Although, I believe that he would have sooner or later advocated for revolution if all else failed.




#8 TheSmilingBandit

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Posted 02 January 2014 - 12:10 AM

Pinning this post so that you boys don't have to keep looking for it. Keep this here since it doesn't need a subforum of its own in my opinion.

Historical Perspective: Jose Rizal was the typical "Filipino", with a mixture of Malay, Japanese, Spanish, and Chinese blood (most of his ancestry is mixed Chinese-something) ... which just goes to show ... a "Philippines for Filipinos" doesn't make sense, since technically, anyone with a Filipino passport would be a Filipino. Though perhaps they mean literally, in which case only the Aetas would be "Filipinos".

#9 sonnyt111

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Posted 02 January 2014 - 12:55 AM

Pinning this post so that you boys don't have to keep looking for it. Keep this here since it doesn't need a subforum of its own in my opinion.

Historical Perspective: Jose Rizal was the typical "Filipino", with a mixture of Malay, Japanese, Spanish, and Chinese blood (most of his ancestry is mixed Chinese-something) ... which just goes to show ... a "Philippines for Filipinos" doesn't make sense, since technically, anyone with a Filipino passport would be a Filipino. Though perhaps they mean literally, in which case only the Aetas would be "Filipinos".


I agree. It's like saying the same thing about true blooded Americans or Australians. It's akin to saying that the only "true Americans" are the American Indian tribes and the only "true Australians" are the Aborigines.

#10 bakal357

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Posted 10 January 2014 - 12:55 AM

According to Zaire, Rizal finished "sobresaliente" amongst his class at the Ateneo Municipal. However, Prof. Ambeth Ocampo researched in the Ateneo and accordingly, the files of Rizal were all gone (so how did Zaide got the facts he wrote on his History books?). Prof. Ocampo however, found a manuscript which indicates that among the 12 students in Rizal's class in Ateneo who graduated, 9 graduated "sobresaliente" and Rizal was one of them. In short... Pinapogi ni Zaide ang kasaysayan natin...

#11 maxiev

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 01:15 AM

Guess not too many members of MTC are interested in history if the number of posters on this forum is any indication. :(

#12 bakal357

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 01:10 PM

Guess not too many members of MTC are interested in history if the number of posters on this forum is any indication. :(

So so true... anyways, How about who should be the true Nat'l hero? Rizal or Bonifacio... hehehe

#13 sonnyt111

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 04:33 PM

So so true... anyways, How about who should be the true Nat'l hero? Rizal or Bonifacio... hehehe

Imo, they are both national heroes. I don't believe we should have only one national hero. Anyone who sacrifices his life for his country, and in the process contributes to the betterment of his country should be considered a national hero. Even if they come from different ends of the political or military spectrum, that doesn't matter to me. Aguinaldo, Bonifacio, Rizal, and many others, in my book, are all national heroes. To say one is more deserving than the other only generates discord, anger, enmity, and intrigues which our national heroes would frown upon. As if there isn't already too much discord, anger, enmity and intrigues in this country and the rest of the world today.

For me it's not right to add on to that my debating who should be declared the national hero. What may be considered admirable and heroic by one person may be interpreted in a different light by another person. So for me, it's each to his own. As for me personally, these men contributed to freeing the Philippines from colonial rule.

One can argue that Benigno Aquino and other anti-Marcos patriots are also national heroes in their own right since they ushered in democracy and an end to one-man rule. Another may argue that one-man rule is better than democracy and that Marcos is the greatest.

So kanya kanyang perspectives yan. Which is why I think this forum is aptly called "Historical Perspectives."

It's okay to give your own opinions on this thread as long as the discussion remains civil, cordial and respectful of the opinions and beliefs of others.

To maxiev, the person who started this thread, don't be discouraged. Hopefully more people will come up and give their two cents worth regarding historical events both here and in other countries.

#14 oscartamaguchiblackface

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Posted 02 February 2014 - 05:45 AM

What I find interesting is the War Among the States (American Civil War). That was the bloodiest war the United States ever fought. Ironically, it was Americans vs. Americans. Imagine in those days, there weren't any antibiotics to fight infections from wounds inflicted from bullets and explosives. Add to that the fact that there wasn't any anesthesia back then. When a limb had to be cut because of infection, no anesthesia was used. Imagine the pain the wounded soldier suffered as his leg or arm was cut by a doctor to prevent gangrene from setting in.

Trench warfare wasn't employed yet at that time. It was a face to face confrontation between Union soldiers and the Confederate Army.

The bloodiest single battle took place at Gettysburg in Pennsylvania between July 1, 1863 to July 3, 1863 where there were between 46,000 and 51,000 casualties over this 3 day period. You can imagine the stench of death in that area with so many people killed.

To this day, people living in the American South still carry the pride of being part of the Confederacy.

More Americans were killed during the American Civil War than those killed in all the other wars that Americans fought in combined.

#15 dungeonbaby

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Posted 02 February 2014 - 08:58 PM

What I find interesting is the War Among the States (American Civil War). That was the bloodiest war the United States ever fought. Ironically, it was Americans vs. Americans. Imagine in those days, there weren't any antibiotics to fight infections from wounds inflicted from bullets and explosives. Add to that the fact that there wasn't any anesthesia back then. When a limb had to be cut because of infection, no anesthesia was used. Imagine the pain the wounded soldier suffered as his leg or arm was cut by a doctor to prevent gangrene from setting in.

Trench warfare wasn't employed yet at that time. It was a face to face confrontation between Union soldiers and the Confederate Army.

The bloodiest single battle took place at Gettysburg in Pennsylvania between July 1, 1863 to July 3, 1863 where there were between 46,000 and 51,000 casualties over this 3 day period. You can imagine the stench of death in that area with so many people killed.

To this day, people living in the American South still carry the pride of being part of the Confederacy.

More Americans were killed during the American Civil War than those killed in all the other wars that Americans fought in combined.


until recently, i misunderstood what the south was fighting for. and why it fought so hard. (ahh Robert E. Lee.)

Virginia was, as far as it was concerned, THE Union. what would make it secede? it did so with a very heavy heart based on the thoughts of the men who voted this way. history is so much more nuanced than the abbreviated conclusions we draw from it today.

i hope this thread prospers.

#16 Z

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Posted 03 February 2014 - 07:17 AM

"Study the past if you would divine the future." Confucius.

Yes, may this thread prosper.

#17 sonnyt111

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 12:12 AM

Like Christianity, Rizal's heroism is exaggerated.

Authors sometimes embellish the accomplishments of certain individuals. Some are flattering while others aren't so flattering. This is where discernment comes into play.

#18 TheSmilingBandit

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Posted 03 March 2014 - 12:37 AM

So many people keep talking about "Democracy" as the ideal government, however historically, how could it be so? I'm specifically talking about a form of government that allows a moron the same right to vote as an educated man ... think about it.

On the other hand, is what we have here in the Philippines truly a "Democracy"? Even the ancient Greeks who came up with the concept never had "universal suffrage" for all the people, just the citizens who actually served either civically or militarily.

Edited by TheSmilingBandit, 03 March 2014 - 12:40 AM.


#19 BnF95

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Posted 03 March 2014 - 10:32 PM

Why is it the government of the Republic of the Philippines would deny the MNLF/MILF/BSA/and whatever alphabet soup these people have, the right to form their own nation? After all, over 100 years ago, a bunch of 'revolutionary bandits' also rebelled against Spanish rule and later on against American rule.

#20 oscartamaguchiblackface

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 12:39 AM

So many people keep talking about "Democracy" as the ideal government, however historically, how could it be so? I'm specifically talking about a form of government that allows a moron the same right to vote as an educated man ... think about it.

On the other hand, is what we have here in the Philippines truly a "Democracy"? Even the ancient Greeks who came up with the concept never had "universal suffrage" for all the people, just the citizens who actually served either civically or militarily.

Yup. Slaves were not entitled to suffrage at all. They had no rights. As for the moron having the same right to vote as an educated man, that's one of the hallmarks of democracy. Then again there are a whole lot more morons than there are thinking/educated people.

So definitely democracy, especially in the Philippine setting, isn't an ideal form of government. What we need is strong man rule. Kind of like what Lee Kwan Yew did for Singapore.




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