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#41 Dr_PepPeR

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Posted 07 May 2006 - 12:52 AM

Based on documentaries I saw on the History Channel, the Germans decided to hold their panzers in reserve because they were indeed anticipating that Allied landings were going to take place in the Pas de Calais region.  This belief was brought about by a great ruse that the Americans and the British perpetrated on the Germans for months before Overlord.  The Allies created phantom divisions and locations and created radio traffic between these phantom divisions to create the impression among the Germans that the Allied landings will take place in the Calais region.

A few German generals (but they were in the minority) really believed that Normandy was the likely point of landing due to the fact that the Allies expected that the Germans WON'T EXPECT them to land there.  It also didn't help either that when the landings started on the early morning of June 6th that the panzers could not be deployed immediately because the Wehrmacht's generals were under very strict orders to obtain Hitler's blessings before the tanks could be deployed.  It is one of the sad and tragic stories of WW2 for the Germans that their supposed great Fuehrer, Hitler, was still asleep and could not be roused from his sleep while his men were getting blasted and dying in Normandy waiting for tanks that came too late to make a difference in the outcome of the battle.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


This is what I have been led to believe too. Unfortunately for the Germans, the deployment of any Panzer Division required the personal clearance of Hitler.

Edited by Dr_PepPeR, 07 May 2006 - 12:54 AM.


#42 Podweed

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Posted 07 May 2006 - 02:04 AM

Based on documentaries I saw on the History Channel, the Germans decided to hold their panzers in reserve because they were indeed anticipating that Allied landings were going to take place in the Pas de Calais region.  This belief was brought about by a great ruse that the Americans and the British perpetrated on the Germans for months before Overlord.  The Allies created phantom divisions and locations and created radio traffic between these phantom divisions to create the impression among the Germans that the Allied landings will take place in the Calais region.

A few German generals (but they were in the minority) really believed that Normandy was the likely point of landing due to the fact that the Allies expected that the Germans WON'T EXPECT them to land there.  It also didn't help either that when the landings started on the early morning of June 6th that the panzers could not be deployed immediately because the Wehrmacht's generals were under very strict orders to obtain Hitler's blessings before the tanks could be deployed.  It is one of the sad and tragic stories of WW2 for the Germans that their supposed great Fuehrer, Hitler, was still asleep and could not be roused from his sleep while his men were getting blasted and dying in Normandy waiting for tanks that came too late to make a difference in the outcome of the battle.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Reads and sounds like "The Longest Day".

Why is it tragic? Be thankful things turned out the way they did. Else, Overlord's forces might have been overrun.

#43 willow_boy

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Posted 07 May 2006 - 12:01 PM

Reads and sounds like "The Longest Day".

Why is it tragic? Be thankful things turned out the way they did. Else, Overlord's forces might have been overrun.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


It's tragic from a human point of view. There is no debate here that thankfully, the Allies won the war. However, the average German soldier, like the average Allied soldier, was only following orders. In this particular case, he and a lot of his comrades were sent to their deaths because of the inhumanity of their leader.

#44 willow_boy

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Posted 07 May 2006 - 12:15 PM

I just want to share following books from my personal collection:

1. Wehrmacht, An Illustrated History - by John Pimlott (History of the Wehrmacht from 1933 to 1945)
2. Warsaw of Asia: The Rape of Manila - by Bonifacio Escoda (about the bloodly liberation of Manila in 1945)

#45 Dr_PepPeR

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Posted 07 May 2006 - 03:15 PM

Another area of interest for me is the science fiction military genre, like novels and short stories by David Drake, Jerry Pournelle, Harry Turtledove and William Dietz.

#46 hellspawn

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Posted 07 May 2006 - 07:03 PM

podweed

-that's true, amin was too chickenshit to jump, unfortunately the israelis issued him with the jump wings and never took them back.
-the van damme movie is "legionnaire". utter crap, as is all van damme movies. "march or die" is one of the better ffl movies made. another good one is "beau geste" with gary cooper (based on the novels by p.c wren: beau geste, beau sabreur, beau ideal). "fort sagan" was another ffl movie that was pretty good, by pretty good i mean it had sophie marceau in it, and any movie with sophie marceau is a good movie, even if she makes one with van damme. especially if she takes her clothes off...
-i've got a dvd called "foreign legion" and it follows an english recruit from first sign up through basic training, para trainig with 2rep, up to jungle warfare training in south america. very engrossing. actual quote..."his french suddenly improved after the corporal punched him in the stomach..." there was a couple of asian recruits in the film, but i don't think they were mongolian.


pepper


"gates of fire" is a fantastic read. so are the other pressfield books, "alexander:the virtues of war" about alexander the great; "last of the amazons" theseus, king of athens, in the land of the amazons; "tides of war" alcibiades and the pelopponesian war; "the legend of bagger vance" better known because of the will smith movie. the book just shits all over the film, although charlize theron is a hottie. too bad she didn't take her clothes off. he also wrote a self help book called "the war of art". i haven't read this one yet.
i'm waiting for his newest book to come out, "the afghan campaign" about alexander the great in afghanistan.
there's also a lot of talk about "gates" being made into a movie...


willow

if i remember correctly, wasn't manila the second most destroyed city in ww2, after warsaw? this sounds like an interesting book. is it still available?


another author i'd recommend is joe sacco who wrote the graphic novels "safe area: gorazde", about his time in the balkans during the bosnian war, and "palestine: in the gaza strip" about the intifada and israel's reaction to it.

#47 vagabond

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Posted 07 May 2006 - 08:59 PM

I wish I was into military history novels but I'm not.  I'm more into books that focus on the technical and tactical details discussing the following topics:

1.  Planes of the Luftwaffe and Luftwaffe aces
2.  Wehrmacht's military strategies in the Eastern Front (Stalingrad, Kurst, German Retreat, Leningrad, etc.)
3.  Development of the German Army from 1933-1945
4.  Blitzkrieg tactics
5.  Biographies of German military heroes (Erwin Rommel, Heinz Guderian, etc.)
6.  U-boat Campaigns (1939-1945)

Though I do not agree with Germany's anti-Semitic politics during the period, I am amazed at the advances they made in the field of battlefield strategy, and the development of the first jet fighter (Me-262) and the first modern submarine (Type XXIII).

It took the full might of the US, British, and Russian forces to destroy this military machine.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

too eurocentric...

#48 vagabond

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Posted 07 May 2006 - 09:05 PM

some others i recommend:

-william manchester: "american caesar" (about gen. douglas macarthur)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

i had also read this wonderful book but critics say that it was bland... they say the best MacArthur biography is D. Clayton James' three volume The Years of MacArthur... for a philippine focus try Douglas MacArthur: The Philippine Years by Carol Morris Petillo.

#49 vagabond

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Posted 07 May 2006 - 09:10 PM

Yes, I forgot about "The Last Battle", thanks for making me look for it in my collection.

William Manchester's "Goodbye Darkness" is also an interesting read. He talks about his USMC experience. I am also collecting literature on the USMC. Krulak's "First to Fight" discusses the fight of the USMC in Congress to remain in existence as a separate arm of the US Armed Forces. I have some books on the Pacific campaign like Guadalcanal, Okinawa, Iwo Jima, Tarawa, Peleliu but I still want more. In the Korean War, I am also compiling literature on the Chosin Reservoir campaign.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

for the Korean War try R. Foot's The Wrong War: American Policy and the Dimension of the Korean Conflict, 1950-1953 and W.W. Stueck's The Korean War: An International History.

#50 vagabond

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Posted 07 May 2006 - 09:16 PM

I have a book on the liberation of Manila that written by a Filipino author, a professor at Adamson University.  His writing style is ok pero what impresses are the details he provides in the book.  It was well researched.  I'll post both the author's name and title later.

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is the author alfonso aluit?

#51 willow_boy

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Posted 07 May 2006 - 09:19 PM

willow

if i remember correctly, wasn't manila the second most destroyed city in ww2, after warsaw? this sounds like an interesting book. is it still available?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Hellspawn,

Yes, Manila, after Warsaw, was the second most devastated city of the war. A lot of the beautiful, pre-war Philippine architecture was lost due to this liberation. My sister bought the book for me at National Book Store about 4 years ago (2002). It may still be available.

What I like about the book was that it was very well researched. The author interviewed survivors of the different families who lived in Ermita, Malate, and Intramuros and documented their experience and fate at the hands of the Japanese.

#52 vagabond

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Posted 07 May 2006 - 09:20 PM

I like Clancy's "Red Storm Rising".

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yes this was a nice reading though you wouldnt be surprise of the war's winner...

#53 willow_boy

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Posted 07 May 2006 - 09:23 PM

is the author alfonso aluit?

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Hi Vagabond,

No, the book's author was Jose Ma. Bonifacio Escoda and the book came out in 2000, published by Giraffe Books in the Philippines. Regards.

#54 vagabond

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Posted 07 May 2006 - 09:27 PM

I have a book on the liberation of Manila that written by a Filipino author, a professor at Adamson University.  His writing style is ok pero what impresses are the details he provides in the book.  It was well researched.  I'll post both the author's name and title later.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

other books on the liberation of manila:

Alfonso Aluit's By Sword and Fire (read only the second part)

Richard Connaughton, John Pimlott and Duncan Anderson's The Battle For Manila

#55 vagabond

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Posted 07 May 2006 - 09:39 PM

for philippine history:

for the Philippine-American War try May, Glenn Anthony. 1993. Battle For Batangas: A Philippine Province at War. Quezon City: New Day Publishers.

for america's "ingenuity" to defend the Philippines and her plan to battle japan see in case of war see Miller, E.S. (1991). War Plan Orange: The U.S. Strategy to Defeat Japan, 1897-1945. Annapolis, Maryland: Naval Institute Press.

for the Japanese Invasion of the Philippines see Louis Morton's The United States Army in Worl War II: The Fall of the Philippines...

#56 Dr_PepPeR

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Posted 08 May 2006 - 01:32 AM

Hellspawn,

Yes, Manila, after Warsaw, was the second most devastated city of the war.  A lot of the beautiful, pre-war Philippine architecture was lost due to this liberation. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


We have the Imperial Japanese Naval Marines to thank for that.

#57 Podweed

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Posted 08 May 2006 - 04:22 AM

podweed

-that's true, amin was too chickenshit to jump, unfortunately the israelis issued him with the jump wings and never took them back.
-the van damme movie is "legionnaire". utter crap, as is all van damme movies. "march or die" is one of the better ffl movies made. another good one is "beau geste" with gary cooper (based on the novels by p.c wren: beau geste, beau sabreur, beau ideal). "fort sagan" was another ffl movie that was pretty good, by pretty good i mean it had sophie marceau in it, and any movie with sophie marceau is a good movie, even if she makes one with van damme. especially if she takes her clothes off...
-i've got a dvd called "foreign legion" and it follows an english recruit from first sign up through basic training, para trainig with 2rep, up to jungle warfare training in south america. very engrossing. actual quote..."his french suddenly improved after the corporal punched him in the stomach..." there was a couple of asian recruits in the film, but i don't think they were mongolian.
pepper
"gates of fire" is a fantastic read. so are the other pressfield books, "alexander:the virtues of war" about alexander the great; "last of the amazons" theseus, king of athens, in the land of the amazons; "tides of war" alcibiades and the pelopponesian war; "the legend of bagger vance" better known because of the will smith movie. the book just shits all over the film, although charlize theron is a hottie. too bad she didn't take her clothes off. he also wrote a self help book called "the war of art". i haven't read this one yet.
i'm waiting for his newest book to come out, "the afghan campaign" about alexander the great in afghanistan.
there's also a lot of talk about "gates" being made into a movie...
willow

if i remember correctly, wasn't manila the second most destroyed city in ww2, after warsaw? this sounds like an interesting book. is it still available?
another author i'd recommend is joe sacco who wrote the graphic novels "safe area: gorazde", about his time in the balkans during the bosnian war, and "palestine: in the gaza strip" about the intifada and israel's reaction to it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Your 'Alexander' books, are they Manfredi's? If so, I've only finished 'Child of a Dream". I meant to complete the series, but forgot about it as soon as other things came up. I enjoyed that read.

Right now, am revisiting Reston's "Warriors of God". It's about Saladin and Richard III. As a story, it's very well-balanced and treats with fairness, Christian and Islamic viewpoints on the Third Crusade.

#58 Podweed

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Posted 08 May 2006 - 04:26 AM

yes this was a nice reading though you wouldnt be surprise of the war's winner...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Nobody won the war in that book, buddy. Near the end of the story, the Soviet general (Alexei-something) said to his American counterpart (Robinson?), "Push us hard if you will. Though the Soviet Union can no longer win, both sides can still lose".

They stalemated each other and the only alternative was an escalation to a nuclear exchange.

#59 Dr_PepPeR

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Posted 08 May 2006 - 08:17 AM

podweed

pepper
"gates of fire" is a fantastic read. so are the other pressfield books, "alexander:the virtues of war" about alexander the great; "last of the amazons" theseus, king of athens, in the land of the amazons; "tides of war" alcibiades and the pelopponesian war; "the legend of bagger vance" better known because of the will smith movie. the book just shits all over the film, although charlize theron is a hottie. too bad she didn't take her clothes off. he also wrote a self help book called "the war of art". i haven't read this one yet.
i'm waiting for his newest book to come out, "the afghan campaign" about alexander the great in afghanistan.
there's also a lot of talk about "gates" being made into a movie...
willow

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


You're right! Pressfield is an amazing read, the whole thing seems to come to life.

#60 belisarius

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Posted 08 May 2006 - 06:48 PM

Based on documentaries I saw on the History Channel, the Germans decided to hold their panzers in reserve because they were indeed anticipating that Allied landings were going to take place in the Pas de Calais region.  This belief was brought about by a great ruse that the Americans and the British perpetrated on the Germans for months before Overlord.  The Allies created phantom divisions and locations and created radio traffic between these phantom divisions to create the impression among the Germans that the Allied landings will take place in the Calais region.

erwin rommel wanted to make use of the best intelligence info vailable so that he can catch the allies just as they were landing on the beach. von runstedt, never having much faith in intelligence and, knowing a beach-side force was vulnerable to a combination of air, naval and paratrooper attack, wanted the panzers where they can perform best --inland.




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