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[camiar]

Equitably is not fairly.

 

Kung ang sweldo mo ay P200,000/month at magpapa gas ka sa kotse mo at ang gastos mo ay P1,500. Tapos yun kababayan mo na P20,000/month magpapa gas din at P1,500 din ang gastos niya. Yun kababayan mo ay 7.5% agad ng sweldo niya ang gastos niya, balibhasa sa iyo .75% lang ang apektado sa kabuuang sweldo mo.

 

Pwede ka pa gumimik, bumili ng 13 kilong sili o mag engrandeng salad meal bago pa mag patas sa 7.5% din ang gastos mo sa kababayan mong naghihirap.

 

Check your dictionary. Equitable means fair and impartial.

 

If you're one of the 5% of the population who earns more than PhP 200K per month, you surely can afford your gas expenses. I'm sure you reached that stage in life through your own perseverance and hard work. You are entitled to enjoy that privilege.

 

If you're one of the 30% of the population who earns around PhP 20K per month, you definitely have to limit your expenses according to your capacity to pay. You limit your car travels, or you use public transportation. Someday, if you play your cards right, you may also earn PhP 200K per month and be able enjoy the privileges that kind of income gives you.

 

Ang definition mo ba ng fairness eh kung naghihirap ang isa, dapat lahat maghirap din?

Edited September 11, 2018 by camiar

[camiar]

I wonder if you'll say the same thing if your budget for food alone is 50% or more of your monthly salary.

 

Yes, I would.

 

I have been through that situation before and I was able to overcome it.

 

I have always supported taxation on consumption instead of on income.

Edited September 11, 2018 by camiar

[darksoulriver]

SC denied the request of Sen. Trillanes for TRO

 

what's' next?

[camiar]

Hindi daw pirmado ni Abnoy yung amnesty papers ni Trillanes?

 

Kaya ba di pumayag and SC sa TRO?

[tk421]

If you're one of the 5% of the population who earns more than PhP 200K per month, you surely can afford your gas expenses. I'm sure you reached that stage in life through your own perseverance and hard work. You are entitled to enjoy that privilege.

 

If you're one of the 30% of the population who earns around PhP 20K per month, you definitely have to limit your expenses according to your capacity to pay. You limit your car travels, or you use public transportation. Someday, if you play your cards right, you may also earn PhP 200K per month and be able enjoy the privileges that kind of income gives you.

 

I say check your's.

 

You say equitable, but your example does not reflect that. Equitable means the benefits/disadvantages are applied proportionally to all.

Edited September 12, 2018 by tk421

[camiar]

 

I say check your's.

 

You say equitable, but your example does not reflect that. Equitable means the benefits/disadvantages are applied proportionally to all.

Hahahahaha

 

Di ba proportionate yung enjoyment of benefits?

 

Mas marami kang pambili, mas marami kang mabibili. Kung konti lang pera mo, kelangan mong magtipid.

 

If you are industrious, disciplined, and smart, you earn more. You have the privilege to spend and enjoy the benefits that comes to you.

 

If you don't push yourself, remain in your mediocrity, act less smart, you earn less. You have less to enjoy.

 

Those are the realities of life. Fair, di ba?

 

Nobody handed me my 5-bedroom house and three cars for free. I worked really hard for years to earn it.

 

Do I feel guilty that you have to forgo your Starbucks Espresso so you can save enough to buy gasoline for your tiny car? Ummmm No.

 

Should you feel guilty that you have eaten your dinner but your neighborhood addict who spent his last money on shabu will go hungry tonight? I don't think so.

 

I don't think you have a clear concept of what fair means.

Edited September 12, 2018 by camiar

[tk421]

Hahahahaha

 

Di ba proportionate yung enjoyment of benefits?

 

Mas marami kang pambili, mas marami kang mabibili. Kung konti lang pera mo, kelangan mong magtipid.

 

If you are industrious, disciplined, and smart, you earn more. You have the privilege to spend and enjoy the benefits that comes to you.

 

If you don't push yourself, remain in your mediocrity, act less smart, you earn less. You have less to enjoy.

 

Those are the realities of life. Fair, di ba?

 

Nobody handed me my 5-bedroom house and three cars for free. I worked really hard for years to earn it.

 

Do I feel guilty that you have to forgo your Starbucks Espresso so you can save enough to buy gasoline for your tiny car? Ummmm No.

 

Should you feel guilty that you have eaten your dinner but your neighborhood addict who spent his last money on shabu will go hungry tonight? I don't think so.

 

I don't think you have a clear concept of what fair means.

 

 

Nope, review how proportions work. You're introducing unnecessary variables to the situation by mentioning Starbuck's and a 5 bedroom, 3 car to the equation, so you actually negate the proportional aspect of your argument.

 

Sa sample nga na pambili ng same amount of gas (or any basic commodity, for that matter), the price is the same for for rich and poor people. If it's proportional, then the price would scale according to that person's social standing. Something like adopting a system like price discrimination.

[camiar]

 

 

Nope, review how proportions work. You're introducing unnecessary variables to the situation by mentioning Starbuck's and a 5 bedroom, 3 car to the equation, so you actually negate the proportional aspect of your argument.

 

Sa sample nga na pambili ng same amount of gas (or any basic commodity, for that matter), the price is the same for for rich and poor people. If it's proportional, then the price would scale according to that person's social standing. Something like adopting a system like price discrimination.

Price discrimination? WTF is that?

 

Are those who are richer than you taking away your chances to earn more? Are you being prevented from enjoying the things that you can afford?

 

Are you saying that those who earn more than you do should forgo enjoying the fruits of their earnings unless you yourself can enjoy the same benefits, too?

 

You definitely don't have a clear concept of what fair is.

Edited September 16, 2018 by camiar

[tk421]

Price discrimination? WTF is that?

 

Are those who are richer than you taking away your chances to earn more? Are you being prevented from enjoying the things that you can afford?

 

Are you saying that those who earn more than you do should forgo enjoying the fruits of their earnings unless you yourself can enjoy the same benefits, too?

 

You definitely don't have a clear concept of what fair is.

1st paragraph mo: Magresearch ka o magbasa pa.

 

 

Your second paragraph: yes... and qualified yes. It should be should be able to afford... not can afford. Kung dati yun kasama mong kaya bumili ng ulam para sa 5 tao sa pamilya nya, ngayon pang 3 tao na lang kaya nyang bilin. Expound on that for a bit: kung pakainin ang pamilya nya, hirap na sya, paano pa nya ma i invest yun pero niya para sa kinabukasan nila? Kasi ang sweldo nya na galing sa mas mayaman sa kanya ay ganun pa din ang bigay sa kanya. Pero ang mga bilihin ay mas tumaas.

 

You actually are the one who views fairness in an elitist pov, actually.

 

Let me pose this scenerio for you: kung yun isang tycoon at isang minimum wage earner (na hindi drug addict, hindi tamad, etc), sabay magkaroon ng anak. Yun anak nilang 2, sino ang mas may chance na mag improve ang buhay (gawin natin equal din na parehong magiging hard-working yun 2 anak na yun... at hindi din sila magkakaroon ng masamang bisyo). Pantay ba ang magiging pag angat nila?

Edited September 17, 2018 by tk421

[camiar]

^^^ your reply is way out of context. What's so unfair in the scenarios you gave?

 

I earn PhP 200K a month and I enjoy my coffee made from specially roasted, hand-picked beans that would cost me Php 200 per cup.

 

You earn PhP20K per month and you enjoy your coffee made from 3-in-1 instant mix costing PhP 8 per cup.

 

Fair or not?

 

Is my enjoyment of the fruits of my labor being unfair to you?

 

Is it now clear enough to you that you're clueless on what fairness really means?

Edited September 17, 2018 by camiar

[tk421]

^^hindi mo ma gets from the scenerio? Kawawa ka naman... you don't take into account how the real world works... or you're just really clueless.

 

Why do you insist on using different kinds of commodities for your examples? Premium coffee vs 3 in 1? WTF.

 

That is an absurd sample of showing fairness. That just goes to show how disconnected you are with your fellow men. Typical elitist view...

[camiar]

 

 

Why do you insist on using different kinds of commodities for your examples? Premium coffee vs 3 in 1? WTF.

 

 

Because a rich person can afford premium coffee that is 25 times more expensive that the 3-in-1 an ordinary person normally drinks. You enjoy what you can afford. What's unfair about that?

 

An ordinary person can also spend his whole day's food budget to buy the same premium coffee. Nobody's stopping him. But would he? That's his choice.

 

That's the real world. There are rich people and there are poor.

 

Typical elitist view?

 

Rich people are typically more disciplined, takes on more responsibilities, makes better financial decisions, takes risks, and is willing to sacrifice small things now to gain better returns tomorrow, while poor people typically behaves the opposite.

 

That's an elitist view.

 

Disprove it.

[tk421]

No need. You've just proved my point: elitists like you are disconnected from the other 80% of Filipinos.

[camiar]

No need. You've just proved my point: elitists like you are disconnected from the other 80% of Filipinos.

pwned!!!

 

You cannot disprove it because it is the general truth.

 

Actually it is not an elitist view. You can find it in almost all books on how to succeed in life. Even the Bible has passages similar to it.

 

You have just proven that you're clueless about it. Poor you....

Edited September 19, 2018 by camiar

[tk421]

No... no need to prove it because you're exhibit A for what a real-life elitist view is.

 

"Rich people are typically more disciplined, takes on more responsibilities, makes better financial decisions, takes risks" is debatable. A farmer who tends his farm is more disciplined than you, has more responsibilities than you, makes daily financial decisions ("how do I survive until the next day"). Laborers, put their lives at risk more than you, who sits in a comfy office chair... doing what exactly? ...managing people? signing papers? thinking how to make more money by taking advantage of the work force that you secretly hope doesn't get rich enough that they won't work for you anymore? And those farmers and laborers are paid how much?

 

The products that you directly (and I mean directly from you, not from your underlings) output are not as essential to human survival as their output, yet you earn more than them.

[camiar]

No... no need to prove it because you're exhibit A for what a real-life elitist view is.

 

"Rich people are typically more disciplined, takes on more responsibilities, makes better financial decisions, takes risks" is debatable. A farmer who tends his farm is more disciplined than you, has more responsibilities than you, makes daily financial decisions ("how do I survive until the next day"). Laborers, put their lives at risk more than you, who sits in a comfy office chair... doing what exactly? ...managing people? signing papers? thinking how to make more money by taking advantage of the work force that you secretly hope doesn't get rich enough that they won't work for you anymore? And those farmers and laborers are paid how much?

 

The products that you directly (and I mean directly from you, not from your underlings) output are not as essential to human survival as their output, yet you earn more than them.

Hahaha! Debatable my ass!

 

You really are clueless how businesses are run.

 

You don't even know what responsibility mean. Obviously you are an underling, thinking like that.

 

Most people who manage businesses put in more hours, typically 12 to 16 hours a day, 6 days, or at times, 7 days a week. They have to go after the purchase orders of customers, negotiate the best price for their raw materials, monitor receivables and collections to sustain operational expenses, see to it that there is enough money for salaries next payday, make sure that employee benefits and government contributions like SSS, BIR, Philhealth, Pagibig, are remitted on schedule, review the performance of his employees, reward those who are performing well, motivate those who are not, list goes on and on... They can't do that without self-discipline, managerial skills, knowledge of the business, and willingness to take the role of a leader.

 

They deserve the best pay package the company can give.

 

You, the underling, works from 9 am to 5 pm, 5 days a week. You only think of work during your 8 hours in the office and forget about it after you punch out at 5 pm. You may deserve your PhP 20,000 monthly salary, but nothing more. If you want more, you have to be willing to give more of yourself.

 

Claiming that a farmer is more disciplined than me, is hilariously illogical and even idiotic.

 

If I were a farmer, I would have the discipline, perseverance and other traits of successful and rich farmers. Farmers who are disciplined, industrious, knowledgeable in his chosen farming activity, knows how to sell his produce, are generally richer than other farmers who behave the opposite. Same principle applies to everybody.

Edited September 21, 2018 by camiar

[tk421]

Hahaha! Debatable my ass!

 

You really are clueless how businesses are run.

 

You don't even know what responsibility mean. Obviously you are an underling, thinking like that.

 

Most people who manage businesses put in more hours, typically 12 to 16 hours a day, 6 days, or at times, 7 days a week. They have to go after the purchase orders of customers, negotiate the best price for their raw materials, monitor receivables and collections to sustain operational expenses, see to it that there is enough money for salaries next payday, make sure that employee benefits and government contributions like SSS, BIR, Philhealth, Pagibig, are remitted on schedule, review the performance of his employees, reward those who are performing well, motivate those who are not, list goes on and on... They can't do that without self-discipline, managerial skills, knowledge of the business, and willingness to take the role of a leader.

 

They deserve the best pay package the company can give.

 

You, the underling, works from 9 am to 5 pm, 5 days a week. You only think of work during your 8 hours in the office and forget about it after you punch out at 5 pm. You may deserve your PhP 20,000 monthly salary, but nothing more. If you want more, you have to be willing to give more of yourself.

 

Claiming that a farmer is more disciplined than me, is hilariously illogical and even idiotic.

 

If I were a farmer, I would have the discipline, perseverance and other traits of successful and rich farmers. Farmers who are disciplined, industrious, knowledgeable in his chosen farming activity, knows how to sell his produce, are generally richer than other farmers who behave the opposite. Same principle applies to everybody.

 

 

What a liar. You don't do all those things yourself. Kaya nga may corporate heirachy, para hindi yun top boss ang gagawa ng pag-check ng recievables, file SSS, taxes, etc, promote people.

 

You hire other HOD to do that for you. You delegate them. Either that or you're a very bad manager.

 

I still stand by that people under you are more hard working than you... and generally more skilled, also. I betcha if something breaks down in your office, you wouldn't even know where to begin to fix it (and I'm not just talking about office appliances, but business processes). You just sign cheques.

 

About your claim about doing things differently if you were a farmer, I'm calling it as BS. And just goes to show how much out of touch you are with reality.

Edited September 21, 2018 by tk421

[Bolj]

I concur with Camiar...

 

But camiar don't strain yourself to this tk421 who only have a general weak idea about what you are trying to explain. He/she thinks or has an illusion of filthy rich crooks as an example, he/she has no clue on self made accomplished people of what work they put in to becoming successful and confortable in life. Mahilig kasi sa semantics and generalizations ang user na yan.

 

Even in school most of the graduates in almost all schools trains and teaches "where you would work" after college.

 

A rice farmer has almost half a year of sunny and half rainy days of him farming. Do the math and use thy f*cking brain.

[tk421]

Of course an elitist will always side with a fellow elitist. Dumping a piece of paper on a pile of trash is still... well... a trash.

 

Because when you're used to working and living in your air-conditioned home, you don't care or think about what the other 80-90% or doing.

 

Basta hindi sila ang apektado, mamatay na ang lahat... LOL.

Edited September 21, 2018 by tk421

[Bolj]

Of course an elitist will always side with a fellow elitist. Dumping a piece of paper on a pile of trash is still... well... a trash.

 

Because when you're used to working and living in your air-conditioned home, you don't care or think about what the other 80-90% or doing.

 

Basta hindi sila ang apektado, mamatay na ang lahat... LOL.

Wrong again, if you think 25 years assigned in critical areas in mindanao, 2 square meals of sardines a day, a bucket full of mosquitos at night, and casual bullets sometimes...is an elitist...then be my guest.

[camiar]

 

 

What a liar. You don't do all those things yourself. Kaya nga may corporate heirachy, para hindi yun top boss ang gagawa ng pag-check ng recievables, file SSS, taxes, etc, promote people.

 

You hire other HOD to do that for you. You delegate them. Either that or you're a very bad manager.

 

I still stand by that people under you are more hard working than you... and generally more skilled, also. I betcha if something breaks down in your office, you wouldn't even know where to begin to fix it (and I'm not just talking about office appliances, but business processes). You just sign cheques.

 

About your claim about doing things differently if you were a farmer, I'm calling it as BS. And just goes to show how much out of touch you are with reality.

You can call me a liar all you want, but that only proves how far below you are in the pecking order.

 

Don't you realize that 95% of companies in the Philippines are small and medium scale businesses that have CEOs and COO's who work long hours and carry the burden and responsibilities just as I described?

 

My company belongs to that 95%. We are small, about 150 employees, but our services help keep the electric power plants and water utilities operating 24/7 so seamlessly that you don't even think they're there.

 

I come to the office at 7am and typically stay until 9 pm. I do operations management during regular day hours and do most of the executive/administrative functions in the evening after most of the employees had gone home.

 

And contrary to your claim, If something breaks down in the Power Plants that we provide services, I may be the one who will be called, or will have to go to site, even at 3 am, to take lead in the fixing the problem. But of course, now I have senior engineers whom I can assign to site-- but I keep my skills sharp just in case.

 

We are paid relatively well (me and my employees), but it is worth every fraction of a centavo that you pay for in you utility bills.

 

You are grossly ignorant of the fact that the "elitist" people (in your myopic definition), whom you hate so much because they earn more than you, are the very ones who keep your life comfortable.

 

Of course an underling like you would not have that kind of perspective to realize the truth in what I've been trying to explain.

 

What's important to me is that other readers in this forum understand what I said.

 

 

 

By the way:

 

I do have a farm. It's planted with coconut, coffee, and fruit trees. I farm it as a hobby -- for my relaxation. So, I can say I'm a rich farmer as well.

How about you?

What have you accomplished in your miserable life?

Edited September 22, 2018 by camiar

[flatwall]

Eventually makuklong dn c trillanes

[flatwall]

You can call me a liar all you want, but that only proves how far below you are in the pecking order.

 

Don't you realize that 95% of companies in the Philippines are small and medium scale businesses that have CEOs and COO's who work long hours and carry the burden and responsibilities just as I described?

 

My company belongs to that 95%. We are small, about 150 employees, but our services help keep the electric power plants and water utilities operating 24/7 so seamlessly that you don't even think they're there.

 

I come to the office at 7am and typically stay until 9 pm. I do operations management during regular day hours and do most of the executive/administrative functions in the evening after most of the employees had gone home.

 

And contrary to your claim, If something breaks down in the Power Plants that we provide services, I may be the one who will be called, or will have to go to site, even at 3 am, to take lead in the fixing the problem. But of course, now I have senior engineers whom I can assign to site-- but I keep my skills sharp just in case.

 

We are paid relatively well (me and my employees), but it is worth every fraction of a centavo that you pay for in you utility bills.

 

You are grossly ignorant of the fact that the "elitist" people (in your myopic definition), whom you hate so much because they earn more than you, are the very ones who keep your life comfortable.

 

Of course an underling like you would not have that kind of perspective to realize the truth in what I've been trying to explain.

 

What's important to me is that other readers in this forum understand what I said.

 

 

 

By the way:

 

I do have a farm. It's planted with coconut, coffee, and fruit trees. I farm it as a hobby -- for my relaxation. So, I can say I'm a rich farmer as well.

How about you?

What have you accomplished in your miserable life?

 

Enough n kc both sides already spoken...

[flatwall]

Still waiting for the development of election protest of bbm.

[mamipokodiapers]

Somebody's paving the way for his own ouster.