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Apo Marcos : Facts And Myths

President Ferdinand Marcos Marcoses Philippine History Martial Law

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#21 rooster69ph

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Posted 04 November 2015 - 02:29 PM

nice move. everything I posted is easily verifiable, and yes, fact.

 

and your only way out was to put blame on something else, like the IMF.  weak.

 

Let me add that these loans were not forced upon us ...

 

Nakakatawa lang for a person to say that IMF was charging us "unreasonable" rate wherein sa malamang wala siya kamuwang-muwang kung ano ang basehan ng interest rate pricing.

 

Alam ba niya ang credit rating ng Pilipinas at that time?  Si LKY nga was quoted saying na malamang hindi na nila makita pa muli ang perang inuutang ng Pinas at that time.  Tapos ano ang gusto niya bigyan tayo ng special or preferential rate?  


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#22 idecris

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Posted 04 November 2015 - 03:09 PM

It is apparent that the poster does not have any idea of what he's talking about regarding the IMF and the poster depends solely on the opinion of a man who ruled an island the size of Metro Manila. LOL.

 

 

It is apparent that the poster does not have any idea of what he's talking about regarding the IMF and the poster depends solely on the opinion of a man who ruled an island the size of Metro Manila. LOL.

 

Please, share with us what FACTS you know of the IMF. Please.



#23 wolflove_bigdawg

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Posted 04 November 2015 - 04:23 PM

The bottom line is Marcos turned himself into a dictator and turned the Philippines into Marcos, Inc.



#24 rooster69ph

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Posted 04 November 2015 - 06:13 PM

It is apparent that the poster does not have any idea of what he's talking about regarding the IMF and that poster depends solely on the opinion of a man who ruled an island the size of Metro Manila. I wonder if that ASEAN leader really knew what was happening in the Philippines that time. Unless, of course, he was a confidante of Marcos or he had a mole who was high up there. LOL.

 

That Asian leader apparently was the president of the country who happens to lend us USD8 billion at the time of MArcos.  The same man the refuses to lend us more kasi hindi na siya bilib kay Macoy.

 

Further, this Asian leader with the initials of LKY transformed his country to be one of Asia's wealthiest and least corrupt while on the other hand Marcos lead this country to become the "sick man of Asia".  

 

Now, sino ang mas kapanipaniwala ... ang opinion ni LKY o ang opinion mo? 



#25 idecris

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Posted 04 November 2015 - 08:45 PM

A country that is only a third of Metro Manila in terms of size and a population of only 5.5 million.  


Each person is entitled to an opinion. He has his. I have mine. 

 

The size of the country that he ruled does not diminish his greatness. You don't realize the difficulties that "island nation" faced when it started. I don't see anything "right" in your belittling his achievements just because it was a "small" country. No historical leader of this country could have matched how LKY rose to meet and overcome and surpass the challenges of Singapore's beginnings. 


Kamusta na yung facts natin dun sa kasalanan ng IMF boss?



#26 rooster69ph

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Posted 04 November 2015 - 08:55 PM

Hindi naman issue kung entitled o hindi sa opinion...given naman na lahat ay entitled. Ang totoong issue sino ang mas kapanipaniwala? Sino ang may credibilidad? Si LKY na respetado ng mundo o ang isang Nathan Gamble na ... Sino nga ba siya?

Anyway eto ang isang pagkukumpara kay Macoy at LKY...

From :“Political Virtue and Economic Leadership: A Southeast Asian Paradox” written by Hilton L. Root and was published by Milken Institute on November 13, 2000:

“Singapore’s Lee Kuan Yew (1959-90) and Ferdinand Marcos of the Philippines (1965-86) coexisted under similar geo-political pressures and were known to share similar political and social philosophies. Yet Lee Kuan Yew established a political party that derived its credibility from a reputation for corruption-free governance, sobriety and growth while Ferdinand Marcos became famous for larceny on a grand scale, stealing the people’s foreign aid and putting it into private bank accounts and property throughout the world.”

“Reflecting upon his success in Singapore, Lee Kuan Yew often boasted that he would have been able to create immense wealth for his citizens if he had only had a larger, more resource-rich country to manage. Few believed that Singapore, an island of 214 square miles and 1.8 million inhabitants, could be a viable country after separating from Malaya in 1964. Lee himself worked tirelessly from 1959 to 1964 to keep Singapore and Malaya together, writing in his memoirs, “We had said that an independent Singapore was simply not viable.” Lee argued, “It is the hinterland that produces the rubber and tin that keep our shop-window economy going. It is the base that made Singapore the capital city. Without this economic base, Singapore would not survive. Without merger, without a reunification of our two governments and an integration of our two economies, our economic position will slowly and steadily get worse.”

“By contrast, the nearby Philippines, with a population of 26.6 million, was considered to be a much more promising developing country. The world’s second largest producer of gold, the Philippines was endowed with a relatively well-educated population, a large resource base and, by the standards of the time, a well-developed infrastructure. With a potentially large resource base to pay back loans and extremely articulate leader it became one of the largest recipients of World Bank assistance during the tenure of Ferdinand Marcos. Yet the Philippines became the sick man of Asia, while Singaporeans now enjoy the second highest per capita income in the region after Japan.”

#27 rooster69ph

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Posted 04 November 2015 - 09:34 PM

Sandali... kanino ba may utang ang Pinas sa Fed ba o sa IMF at World Bank?

Kung sakaling hindi naman pala sa Fed umutang ...kasi sa alam ko tumatayo itong CB ng America at lender lang nga daw ito of the last resort, ano ang kinalaman ng pagtaas nito ng rate sa pinas?

Isa pa, at uulitin ko ...obligado bang umutang ang Pinas? Parang ganito lang yun e ... Si Nathan pumunta sa bangko umutang pambili ng bahay. Sumunod umutang uli pambili ng kotse. Tapos umutang uli pangtravel. E humina ang kita, sinabayan pa na nagtaas ng interest ang bangko, nalintikan na at kinapos na sa pambayan ng interest (wala pang principal yun ha) tapos sisisihin mo ang bangko sa pagdefault mo?

Edited by rooster69ph, 04 November 2015 - 09:35 PM.


#28 haroots2

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Posted 05 November 2015 - 09:00 AM


 Una inutil ang PCGG at ang mga naghahabol kila marcos. Pangalawa, malamang me sabwatan na sila. Eitherway, pagkukulang pa din ito ng gobyerno.

 

 

 

 

I agree on both.  Magagaling ang mga lawyers ng mga Marcoses.  Estelito Mendoza was one of the brightest lawyers we ever had.  Kaya nga pati si Lucio Tan hindi rin natatalo sa kahit anong tax cases because of him.

Also want to add, after lifting the Martial Law, sana bumitiw na sa pwesto si Marcos since his health is failing by that time.  Baka siguro si  Ninoy hindi napatay and KBL is still running the govt.



#29 Edmund Dantes

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Posted 05 November 2015 - 10:01 AM

 

I agree on both.  Magagaling ang mga lawyers ng mga Marcoses.  Estelito Mendoza was one of the brightest lawyers we ever had.  Kaya nga pati si Lucio Tan hindi rin natatalo sa kahit anong tax cases because of him.

Also want to add, after lifting the Martial Law, sana bumitiw na sa pwesto si Marcos since his health is failing by that time.  Baka siguro si  Ninoy hindi napatay and KBL is still running the govt.

 

Ito lang ang alam ko, kung yung pumalit sana ginawa dapat para sulusyunan yung maraming problema iniwan ng Marcos administration, kung sana umunlad talaga tayo. Kung sana nakulong nga ang mga marcos at iba pang plunderer sa Pilipinas, Kung binigyan lang tayo ng totoong demokrasya, sana ang publiko ngayon hindi magtatanong ng "Di kaya mas umaasenso pa tayo kay Apo?"

 

Democracy is more than having "rights". Its a system of government where the greater interest of the people is prioritized. Ang meron tayo sistema na ang priority interest ng political families at mayayaman.



#30 rooster69ph

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Posted 05 November 2015 - 10:18 AM

 

I agree on both.  Magagaling ang mga lawyers ng mga Marcoses.  Estelito Mendoza was one of the brightest lawyers we ever had.  Kaya nga pati si Lucio Tan hindi rin natatalo sa kahit anong tax cases because of him.

Also want to add, after lifting the Martial Law, sana bumitiw na sa pwesto si Marcos since his health is failing by that time.  Baka siguro si  Ninoy hindi napatay and KBL is still running the govt.

 

Unang una, nun buhay pa si Makoy laging dinadahilan na may sakit ito at hindi makaharap sa korte.  At nun namatay na ito siyempre pwede mo bang ma-convict ang isang patay na?

 

Siyempre may pagkukulang din ang mga nagdaang administration.  May napabalitang sablay ang pinaggagawa ng PCGG.  Hindi natin alam kung sinadya o talagang inutil kaya natalo sa technicality.  Si Imelda na na convict nun 1993 binaligtad ang conviction nun 1998 ... kauupo pa lang ni Erap nun.  Alam naman natin gaano kalapit si Erap sa mga Marcos.  Hindi po ba inendorso ni Meldy si Erap sa last minute nun 1998.  Ngayong tatakbong vice is BBM hindi ba nangunguna si Erap sa nagtaas ng kamay nito.  At may administration din  nakipagcompromise deal na lang imbes na ipagpatuloy ang kaso.  Kahit si BBM inamin/sinabi na "they will continue to do so"



#31 haroots2

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Posted 05 November 2015 - 10:21 AM

Yeah sure, publications, articles, short stories, or you can even throw in novels. They don't change the fact that Marcos never got convicted.

 

He did convited of murder.  Na reverse lang ng Supreme Court  just because nanghihinayang sila sa tao since they saw Marcos has a great future ahead of him.



#32 punkee

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Posted 05 November 2015 - 11:20 AM

why is it we seem to expect perfection from our presidents? marcos left the country with humongous debts and problems that an ordinary leader would not be able to solve in one term. and Cory was not the greatest president so let us stop blaming her. her legacy is bringing back our rights to speak and act freely. for that, she is way way better than any Marcos combined.

 

I blame those who keep supporting the obviously evil and corrupt. it is because these corrupt politicians are still very popular that we are always forced to settle. Erap was still popular so we settled for PNoy. And since Binay & Bongbong are also popular we will most probably be forced to settle again.

 

for those who seem to have seething hatred for PNoy, I say it is better to have seething hatred for corruption, lying, hypocrisy and thievery. palpak si PNoy. let me emphasize that. but I will take the incremental improvements that our country has experienced with PNoy anytime than a return to a corrupt system that has kept us as a slow, underachieving country.



#33 punkee

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Posted 05 November 2015 - 11:23 AM

with a leader like marcos, the loyalists will never have the chance to air their side (albeit twisted) on social media. the freedoms you experience now are those your APO took away while he was not yet a wax dummy.



#34 rooster69ph

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Posted 05 November 2015 - 01:27 PM

can you convict a dead man???  :huh:



#35 darksoulriver

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Posted 05 November 2015 - 03:49 PM

Yet the Philippines became the sick man of Asia, while Singaporeans now enjoy the second highest per capita income in the region after Japan.”

 

Singapore citizens follow even the smallest rule of law..in the Philippines you still need to remind them!

 

the Philippines current state is not entirely Marcos fault...

 

yes he's part of it but why still more filipinos think Marcos is the better than the past and present President.

 

were angry because Marcos proclaim Martial Law. but we still vote Ramos and Enrile.



#36 rooster69ph

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Posted 05 November 2015 - 04:15 PM

How sure are you he would have been convicted had he lived long enough?

 

The same as to how sure you would be to his acquittal had he lived long enough. 

 

Arguing whether or not he would have been convicted if he lived long enough is pure speculation at this point.  Considering the fact that he died, the better question to ask is if you can you convict a dead person??? :lol:   

 

Bottomline, arguing that he was not convicted to prove his innocence does not hold ground since he was neither acquitted right?  In fact was he even "healthy" enough to attend trial?  


Edited by rooster69ph, 05 November 2015 - 04:23 PM.


#37 Edmund Dantes

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Posted 05 November 2015 - 04:57 PM

can you convict a dead man???  :huh:

 

Actually andyan pa si Imelda at mga pamilya nya. Ang daming kaso sinampa sa kanya pero ni isa man lang dun hindi sya mapakulogn. Ano na ba nagawa ng PCGG? Bakit ni isa sa mga sinasabing swiss accounts hindi naman mabawi?

 

 

 

Yet the Philippines became the sick man of Asia, while Singaporeans now enjoy the second highest per capita income in the region after Japan.”

 

Singapore citizens follow even the smallest rule of law..in the Philippines you still need to remind them!

 

the Philippines current state is not entirely Marcos fault...

 

yes he's part of it but why still more filipinos think Marcos is the better than the past and present President.

 

were angry because Marcos proclaim Martial Law. but we still vote Ramos and Enrile.

 

I agree, the problems we have today were caused more by the leaders that replaced APO, than APO himself. Marcos is a convenient bad guy. Is is an escape goat. Lahat na lang ng kapalpakan ng kasalukuyan na ayusin mga problema ng bansa laging kelangan isisi kay Marcos. 50 years daw kasi aantayin para ma-undo damage ng ginawa ng diktador. Ganun din ba katagal bumangon ang Spain pagkatapos ni Franco? Ang Italy pagkatapos ni Mouslini? Tignan natin sabi ang indonesia. Naghirap din naman husto bansang yun dahil kay Suharto. Mas nauna pa tayo lumaya sa kanila, pero ngayon magkakaroon na sila ng bullet train



#38 rooster69ph

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Posted 05 November 2015 - 05:17 PM

 

Actually andyan pa si Imelda at mga pamilya nya. Ang daming kaso sinampa sa kanya pero ni isa man lang dun hindi sya mapakulogn. Ano na ba nagawa ng PCGG? Bakit ni isa sa mga sinasabing swiss accounts hindi naman mabawi?

 

 

 

 

Well ako kasi ang tingin ko sino ba ang nasaposisyon na nagnakaw at ang pangunahing kinasuhan?  SI Ferdie yun pero patay na... 

 

 

As to the other family members, well depende kung ano ang kasong naisampa.  Pero sa aking pagkakaalam na convict na si meldy nun 1993 if i remember it correctly.  Pero binaligtad nun 1998 ilang buwan matapos naupo sa pwesto si Erap.  Hindi naman ako nagtataka kung bakit ...while tumakbo si Meldy nun 1998, last minute inendorso niya si Erap.  At saka, ano ba ang connection ni Erap sa mga Marcos? Etong nagannounce si BBM  na tatakbo bilang VP sino ba ang nasa tabi niya at nagtaas ng kamay?  I guess you can deduce kung ano ang nangyari in between.  As I told you earlier, hindi mo pwedeng sabihin walang naganap na krimen at suicide ang dahilan ng pagkamatay ng isang tao na may 3 tama ng bala sa ulo kahit na walang nakakita kung sino ang gumawa ng krimen at higit sa lahat walang na convict. 

 

As to the issue na walang nabawi ang PCGG, again, you may want to check your facts.  Meron pong nabawing nakaw na yaman although it is not as much as expected.  Why? Various factors ... hindi ko alam kung dahil purely incompetent, dahil may napabalitang na dismiss yun kaso sa technicality dahil sa pinaggagawa ng PCGG.  Dahil magaling ang pagtatago ng yaman kaya mahina ang kaso o di kaya nasusuhulan ang mga nakaupo kaya in the end masabing may nagawa lang ayun compromise agreement pumapayag na.  For the record, BBM has been quotedas as saying  they have been negotiating for compromise agreement and will continue to do so.  


Edited by rooster69ph, 05 November 2015 - 05:34 PM.


#39 haroots2

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Posted 05 November 2015 - 05:49 PM

 

Actually andyan pa si Imelda at mga pamilya nya. Ang daming kaso sinampa sa kanya pero ni isa man lang dun hindi sya mapakulogn. Ano na ba nagawa ng PCGG? Bakit ni isa sa mga sinasabing swiss accounts hindi naman mabawi?

 

 

Mahirap talagang bawiin ang mga Swiss Acct.s, hindi dahil may kapangyarihan pa si Marcos kundi yun ang mahigpit na policy ng mga Swiss Banks. kaya nga sila sikat dahil sa kanilang bank secrecy law.  If those swiss banks gave those accts. to the Phil. govt., many depositors  will react to their policy and may result to mass withrawal of accounts.



#40 rooster69ph

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Posted 05 November 2015 - 06:06 PM

Then why ask the question in the first place when you're not even sure if he was gonna be convicted had he lived? :blink:

 

Because you said he was never convicted hence the question ... I don't speculate and deal only with the fact that he's dead and there was no acquittal during his lifetime.  Bakit pwede bang ma convict ang isang patay?  :P  Kung buhay siya, then na acquit then that's the time you tell me he was never convicted.  ;)

 

tell me .. ano ang hindi mo naintindihan dito sa sinabi ko?  "Bottomline, arguing that he was not convicted to prove his innocence does not hold ground since he was neither acquitted right?  In fact was he even "healthy" enough to attend trial?"   :lol: 


Edited by rooster69ph, 05 November 2015 - 06:08 PM.






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