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#41 blues2death

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Posted 30 August 2006 - 12:32 AM

aaaaaaaaaawwwwwwwwwwwww starbuck...say it isnt so! :cry:

ah well....i respect your personal opinion.

but...you could be surprised... 70s bistro & mag;net in katipunan are pretty good haunts for jazz musicians...

i would say...pinoy jazz musicians are just as good as their foreighn counterparts.

now i used to live in santa monica, where there is a blues club(wait! this is a jazz thread!) where mondays they always have a jazz jam session(aaaahhhh)....well i went there....saw the jam...saw the house band..they were pretty good....i saw no difference in the level of playing between americans and the filipino musicians that i know( mentioned above)

now i am also a musician...so you would think know too right? i certainly hope so... :goatee:

#42 starbuck911

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Posted 30 August 2006 - 04:33 AM

aaaaaaaaaawwwwwwwwwwwww starbuck...say it isnt so! :cry:

ah well....i respect your personal opinion.

but...you could be surprised... 70s bistro & mag;net in katipunan are pretty good haunts for jazz musicians...

i would say...pinoy jazz musicians are just as good as their foreighn counterparts.

now i used to live in santa monica, where there is a blues club(wait! this is a jazz thread!) where mondays they always have a jazz jam session(aaaahhhh)....well i went there....saw the jam...saw the house band..they were pretty good....i saw no difference in the level of playing between americans and the filipino musicians that i know( mentioned above)

now i am also a musician...so you would think know too right? i certainly hope so... :goatee:



if it's any consolation, i don't have a problem with the musicianship (although that depends). it's the music, to make a long story short. this is not even an issue about colonial mentality or race. there's too much to elaborate...but regardless, i've made up my mind till further notice. besides, if the local jazz (or blues) scene were a lot better and more rewarding, chances are you would never have left the country, diba? in the hope of not bringing out the :cry: from you again, i will refrain from making any further comments on the local scene (+ or -). that was the first and last....no more....nada! tapos na! whew..... ^_^

one thing though, i highly disagree with the notion that just because a person is a musician...that would mean to say that he/she knows better about music than a non-musician. maybe with theory/notes-chords-scales, gear and other technical stuff...you guys may have the upper hand.....but when it comes to the other stuff that the layman can relate to (recordings, 20th century west. music history, the music biz, media, etc.), i'm able to hold my own very well (esp. in person as opposed to a forum). musician friends/relatives of mine who are also long time avid listeners/collectors know what i'm talking about here (sadly, there are only a few of them).....anyway, this isn't a competition about who-knows-more, but i'm just trying to illustrate where i'm coming from as briefly as i can.

thanks for respecting my opinion...as i will also respect yours in return. i also have respect for what you're doing now, believe me. starting over to be a small fish in a big pond as opposed to having had the chance to be a big fish in a small pond is quite commendable, i must say. whether we agree to disagree or not, your musical heart need not be questioned.....although a "house band" from a santa monica club won't convince me that the musicians from that band represents the very best so. cal. has to offer. not by a long shot... :goatee:

#43 blues2death

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Posted 30 August 2006 - 02:49 PM

besides, if the local jazz (or blues) scene were a lot better and more rewarding, chances are you would never have left the country, diba?

one thing though, i highly disagree with the notion that just because a person is a musician...that would mean to say that he/she knows better about music than a non-musician. maybe with theory/notes-chords-scales, gear and other technical stuff...you guys may have the upper hand.....but when it comes to the other stuff that the layman can relate to (recordings, 20th century west. music history, the music biz, media, etc.), i'm able to hold my own very well (esp. in person as opposed to a forum). musician friends/relatives of mine who are also long time avid listeners/collectors know what i'm talking about here (sadly, there are only a few of them).....anyway, this isn't a competition about who-knows-more, but i'm just trying to illustrate where i'm coming from as briefly as i can.

thanks for respecting my opinion...as i will also respect yours in return. i also have respect for what you're doing now, believe me. starting over to be a small fish in a big pond as opposed to having had the chance to be a big fish in a small pond is quite commendable, i must say. whether we agree to disagree or not, your musical heart need not be questioned.....although a "house band" from a santa monica club won't convince me that the musicians from that band represents the very best so. cal. has to offer. not by a long shot... :goatee:


look buddy... im proud of where im from. and i believe pinoy musicians can keep up with the very best that socal...or any place for that matter.

the reason i left the phil is because of opportunity..not because of lack of good musicians in our country.my job here is unfortunately not music related---im a caregiver for christ's sakes! but i would love to play music professionally again if given the chance.

eric clapton? one word---jun lopito....and jun doesnt even own an amp.

robben ford? ever heard of joey puyat?

eddie van halen? steve vai? frank gambale? allan holdsworth? well the philippines has noel mendez...jack rufo...vic carpio...perf de castro...

jaco pastorious? stu hamm? stanley clarke? rommel cruz of barbie's cradle....mong of ugoy-ugoy...colby dela calzada

im a musician......obviously i love music...also the artist....you may say na kopya lang tayong mga pinoy...well...we dont have the resources, the mula and the same opportunities these international artists have...kaya we have something these guys dont have.....our natural ability to come strong whatever the odds.

tama ka hindi competition...im talking about loving your own..and supporting our own...

but since you made up your mind...ok lang

the pinoy jazz (and blues) music scene needs the support of its countrymen....and it will grow as it has..it warms the heart that even pinoys genuinely want to master a western genre(s) of music...and call it our own.

it will grow...no thanks to you starbuck....you made me very angry....

#44 starbuck911

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Posted 30 August 2006 - 03:45 PM

it will grow...no thanks to you starbuck....you made me very angry....



yeah buddy, i can tell. you take this too personally, but that's not my problem. if you really respected my opinion in the 1st place, you would have just left my post alone. but naturally, you just had to react, didn't you?

you mentioned a few friends again. they respect my opinions, so why should i deal with someone like you? i was already into music by the time you were born, so don't show me up with what you know. i've rung circles around a number of musicians in front of my musician friends in the past, so i'm sorry i shook up your fragile ego. you wanna take over this thread? go ahead! if you think i have anything to learn from you, your dead wrong.....buddy!

Edited by starbuck911, 30 August 2006 - 03:46 PM.


#45 blues2death

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Posted 30 August 2006 - 03:52 PM

and you know what starbuck? you may fancy yourself a music historian/fact checker...but you forgot something.musicians are in the middle of it all.

history?the business...recording...you would never have anything...w/o the artist and the music itself.

thank God for people like wes montgomery...or miles davis......

thank God there's a jazz/blues music scene to begin with.

live music is where it's at. to each his own you know....but the excitement you experience listening to your cds...compares nothing to the live performance itself.

that's the point im getting at. not because of race or being patriotic..it's all music...

and what's that about the best that socal has to offer?

well define" best" ...best meaning popular? best meaning the most album sales? the best meaning who's first? or better technically? faster notes? longer notes?

i mean kenny g is pretty fast...popular...very long notes...album sales good...everything's checked....ah...he's not really jazz is he? ok maybe mahirap ang comparison non

eric clapton...wow...galing mag blues...patriarch of the blues rock genre...album sales good....how about robben ford...aha...he's better i think...some would argue clapton...srv is the best...or whatever....

kilala mo ba si edmund fortuno? the guy who impressed john lennon in japan, almost made it as part of the plastic ono band? played drums for chuck berry in manila and almost stole the show? rock n roll drummer ba sya talaga?well, he's regarded as philippines' best swing drummer...swing as jazz swing...bebop til you drop...

bakit ko inargue to? kasi...i just dont listen to cds man...i went out and watched these guys for real! that's the reason i will never be as smart as you when it comes to history......or facts...or album titles and the years they were made...

sheesh...i never meant to sound cocky...i just wanted to point out that musicians have better insight ..well sometimes....


i refuse to think that the jazz/blues scene is not worth investing in. it may not be rewarding monetary wise...but do you think wes did it because he wanted to make a million bucks?

pinoy jazz/blues isnt exactly young anymore....but we can still be part of it's history...by being spectators...to be ables to say " i was there when it first started" or" i played with edmund fortuno"...or i was part of this or part of that....

i think that's better than memorizing the dates and places where miles davis took a s@%t

#46 starbuck911

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Posted 30 August 2006 - 03:59 PM

sheesh...i never meant to sound cocky...i just wanted to point out that musicians have better insight ..well sometimes....


sometimes...thanks for pointing that out. i rest my case.

you done yet? sana naman.....

#47 blues2death

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Posted 30 August 2006 - 04:05 PM

yeah buddy, i can tell. you take this too personally, but that's not my problem. if you really respected my opinion in the 1st place, you would have just left my post alone. but naturally, you just had to react, didn't you?

you mentioned a few friends again. they respect my opinions, so why should i deal with someone like you? i was already into music by the time you were born, so don't show me up with what you know. i've rung circles around a number of musicians in front of my musician friends in the past, so i'm sorry i shook up your fragile ego. you wanna take over this thread? go ahead! if you think i have anything to learn from you, your dead wrong.....buddy!


it's personal yes..because i love it...go ahead and listen to your f*&^kin cds... :D

friends...they are not merely friends....and they wont respect your opinions once they hear how tight your ass has been...lighten up!

and you didnt run rings around your musician friends(geez w/friends like you,who needs...) they just let you get away with it. you lead a sad life....all alone with your jazz compilations in your corner of your room.

oh...you have a lot to learn from me....i teach guitar...blues of course...which leads to rock n roll...maybe jazz...

oh did you know that wes montgomery influenced a lot of guitarists when it comes to playing octaves? like eric johnson, jimi hendrix, george benson.....oh dont worry...theyre not my friends...although i wish they were....

yeah you were already well into music before i was born....doin what? did you arrange stuff? learn to play the bass ala stanley clarke(sorry he's not my friend)...or play drums like gene krupa....

oh is it youre thread? why didnt you just put " starbuck911's close mind set on jazz" or " how pinoy jazz sucks"

dont lull yourself into a false sense of security....you dont even know how to appreciate what's in your own backyard....you cant judge anyone unless you put yourself in other people's shoes

it's like comparing a sports commentator/announcer to a boxer.......

you may know the facts mister....but you dont know how to fight

#48 blues2death

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Posted 30 August 2006 - 04:17 PM

sometimes...thanks for pointing that out. i rest my case.

you done yet? sana naman.....

nope not done yet

you're an old fart.... :D

#49 starbuck911

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Posted 30 August 2006 - 04:21 PM

it's personal yes..because i love it...go ahead and listen to your f*&^kin cds... :D
probably better than hearin'you play.
friends...they are not merely friends....and they wont respect your opinions once they hear how tight your ass has been...lighten up!
you lighten up, junior. yes, they're friends. ironic, isn't it?
oh...you have a lot to learn from me....i teach guitar...blues of course...which leads to rock n roll...maybe jazz...
nauna pala yung rock and roll sa jazz. i just learned something from you. happy now?



#50 starbuck911

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Posted 30 August 2006 - 04:29 PM

Sa dami mong nasabi, bore2death is more appropriate for you. :lol:

#51 blues2death

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Posted 30 August 2006 - 04:35 PM

tanga mo talaga... :D

i wasnt talkin about history...guitar instruction yun

what i was describing was the level of instruction when it comes lead playing.

blues playing---pentatonic/blues scales ..riffs and licks

rock en roll---maybe some heavy metal stuff

then because it is a language too complex to understand w/o learning the basics---jazz

there you go again with your history.....pero ang tutoo d ba cguro alam mo yan...blues ay nauna kesa sa jazz.....ang idea ng improvisation ay galing sa blues...the chord extensions/theory and relationships are developed later on..and turned to the jazz....

ang blues...primarily..dominated by blacks.....cotton fields...train tracks...slave trade...dyan nag originate...

then later on...ung jazz...nagkaroon ng white following....i know cause my patient talks about benny goodman,louis johnson...and all those cats...yes he said cats...and how he said...it's all derived form the blues....

well he knows about it...but that doenst make him a historian like you starbuck hey?

uulitin ko...ang tanga mo...d ka marunong magbasa

#52 blues2death

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Posted 30 August 2006 - 04:39 PM

Sa dami mong nasabi, bore2death is more appropriate for you. :lol:


speaking of bored to death...im just givin you the same medicine you gave us at the blues thread...

i never bothered reading all your posts from start to finish in the blues thread....all i could say was..."what a smart ass" :D

#53 starbuck911

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Posted 30 August 2006 - 05:00 PM

hahaha...and you had to say so much just to show who's really the smart ass.

you're too stressed now. if you have to have the last word, go ahead. i won't stoop down to your level any more than i already have. i lead a pretty good life here, fyi. if you say it's sad, look in the mirror...that's sad!

i wish you luck with your life there. if you won't accept this, that's not my problem.

Edited by starbuck911, 30 August 2006 - 05:02 PM.


#54 blues2death

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Posted 30 August 2006 - 05:11 PM

your remarks about the jazz/blues scene are without merit starbuck.....

maybe you are frustrated w/what's going on...because it is not the ideal scene for you.

you know why?

coz the jazz musicians in our country dont play jazz exclusively.. they have to do the obligatory session work with showbands and pop stars/divas to put food on the table. they play pretty good jazz in spite of---so there's your foul right there mr starbuck.

why does the jazz musician have to do pop gigs in order to survive? because there is lack of support from the record labels,media moguls,bar owners....and lastly the jazz afficianado...that would be anyone who listens to jazz, loves it...and lives it...day in and day out.

if you think im without respect to your opinions...well that is not my problem too...my problem is that your opinion puts down the jazz scene in our country...if you dont want to watch...dont say anything....shutup!

there are other people who wanna watch jazz bands play---my point in the name dropping? there are lots of pinoy jazz musicians playing right in your neighborhood...some of you guys just dont know it.....im merely passing the message.

im sorry i bored you starbuck....but you are acting like an old fart....stick to your opinion....but dont discourage others from watching our fine musicians play by posting your opinions...

#55 grappelli

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Posted 30 August 2006 - 06:58 PM

Welcome to the thread, Grappelli. It's not often one would pick a violinist as his/her favorite jazz musician. It's a rather fascinating choice, so do come back and share your thoughts on SG if and when you get the chance.


Ceasefire muna brothers. Thank you for welcoming me Starbuck 911.

Like you, I'm no musician but I love music. Suffice it to say that my taste for music is eclectic. And the reason is that perhaps my musical tastes have been shaped main by radio music. I have only meager resources so my main source of music is radio; pahiram-hiram lang noon ng plaka, pabili-bili sa ilalim ng underpass sa Raon ng made-in-Taiwan bootlegs. They only cost P5 then but they were durable; in fact, I still have one of of them--Rolling Stones best live album, Get Yer Yaya's Out. The others which I lent to friends were not returned anymore--John Mayall, Bloodrock, Savoy Brown, Mott the Hopple,etc. During my teens--and like most teens of the 70s, the radio stations to listen to were DZRJ-AM, DZBM-AM, and DZUW-AM. In the martial law years, DZUW shut down, DZBM became defunct while DZRJ morphed into DZUW-FM and eventually DZRJ-FM. In the late 70s, DZUW-FM started playing jazz, "commercial jazz" as Jingle magazine coined it then--George Benson, Stanley Turrentine, Hubert Laws, etc. Another FM station, KW--with former DZUW dj Brother Wayne at the helm, was also experimenting airing jazz music--Joe Sample and the Crusaders, Caldera, Ramsey Lewis, Spyro Gyra, etc. DZRJ eventually dropped the jazz format while KW became an "all-jazz" station. Commercial jazz was perhaps coined because most of the jazz records being aired then were those pushed by the local record companies like Vicor, WEA, and Dyna. Would you believe I was only able to buy some of these records when they were on sale, about three years "past their prime?"

Back to Mr. Grappelli and why I came to like jazz. It was in one of DZRJ-FM's broadcasts where I first heard the music of Stephane Grappelli. I readily got hooked, so to speak. It was his rendition of "My Funny Valentine" and James Taylor's "Sunny Skies" which really got me fascinated with his style of jazz. Unfortunately, his records were hard to find or were not available locally at all. So I just had to content myself with radio music. Starting in 1984, a hiatus in jazz programming set in until 1998 when Citilite came into the scene. By that time, as evidenced by this forum/thread, a small but sophisticated Pinoy jazz culture emerged. But thanks to the digital revolution and the Internet because we could all now listen to the music of great jazz musicians.

I am awed and overwhelmed by the posts here which reflects erudition and a passionate appreciation of jazz by Pinoy music lovers. The members are very articulate.

Cheers and peace brothers!

#56 starbuck911

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Posted 30 August 2006 - 10:36 PM

your remarks about the jazz/blues scene are without merit starbuck.....

maybe you are frustrated w/what's going on...because it is not the ideal scene for you.

you know why?

coz the jazz musicians in our country dont play jazz exclusively.. they have to do the obligatory session work with showbands and pop stars/divas to put food on the table. they play pretty good jazz in spite of---so there's your foul right there mr starbuck.

why does the jazz musician have to do pop gigs in order to survive? because there is lack of support from the record labels,media moguls,bar owners....and lastly the jazz afficianado...that would be anyone who listens to jazz, loves it...and lives it...day in and day out.

if you think im without respect to your opinions...well that is not my problem too...my problem is that your opinion puts down the jazz scene in our country...if you dont want to watch...dont say anything....shutup!

there are other people who wanna watch jazz bands play---my point in the name dropping? there are lots of pinoy jazz musicians playing right in your neighborhood...some of you guys just dont know it.....im merely passing the message.

im sorry i bored you starbuck....but you are acting like an old fart....stick to your opinion....but dont discourage others from watching our fine musicians play by posting your opinions...


I discourage others? You are the one without merit. Putting words in my mouth and telling me to shutup? You shutup!

You didn't have to react to my opinion so childishly in the 1st place....so I don't know what's been funnier....watching you blow your top, or seeing you fall apart. After all this, you sure found a way to liven up the thread...the wrong way. Boy, quite a fine teacher you're turning out to be.

And yeah....you bored me. That's why I left. I was falling asleep.

#57 starbuck911

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Posted 30 August 2006 - 10:52 PM

Ceasefire muna brothers. Thank you for welcoming me Starbuck 911.

Like you, I'm no musician but I love music. Suffice it to say that my taste for music is eclectic. And the reason is that perhaps my musical tastes have been shaped main by radio music. I have only meager resources so my main source of music is radio; pahiram-hiram lang noon ng plaka, pabili-bili sa ilalim ng underpass sa Raon ng made-in-Taiwan bootlegs. They only cost P5 then but they were durable; in fact, I still have one of of them--Rolling Stones best live album, Get Yer Yaya's Out. The others which I lent to friends were not returned anymore--John Mayall, Bloodrock, Savoy Brown, Mott the Hopple,etc. During my teens--and like most teens of the 70s, the radio stations to listen to were DZRJ-AM, DZBM-AM, and DZUW-AM. In the martial law years, DZUW shut down, DZBM became defunct while DZRJ morphed into DZUW-FM and eventually DZRJ-FM. In the late 70s, DZUW-FM started playing jazz, "commercial jazz" as Jingle magazine coined it then--George Benson, Stanley Turrentine, Hubert Laws, etc. Another FM station, KW--with former DZUW dj Brother Wayne at the helm, was also experimenting airing jazz music--Joe Sample and the Crusaders, Caldera, Ramsey Lewis, Spyro Gyra, etc. DZRJ eventually dropped the jazz format while KW became an "all-jazz" station. Commercial jazz was perhaps coined because most of the jazz records being aired then were those pushed by the local record companies like Vicor, WEA, and Dyna. Would you believe I was only able to buy some of these records when they were on sale, about three years "past their prime?"

Back to Mr. Grappelli and why I came to like jazz. It was in one of DZRJ-FM's broadcasts where I first heard the music of Stephane Grappelli. I readily got hooked, so to speak. It was his rendition of "My Funny Valentine" and James Taylor's "Sunny Skies" which really got me fascinated with his style of jazz. Unfortunately, his records were hard to find or were not available locally at all. So I just had to content myself with radio music. Starting in 1984, a hiatus in jazz programming set in until 1998 when Citilite came into the scene. By that time, as evidenced by this forum/thread, a small but sophisticated Pinoy jazz culture emerged. But thanks to the digital revolution and the Internet because we could all now listen to the music of great jazz musicians.

I am awed and overwhelmed by the posts here which reflects erudition and a passionate appreciation of jazz by Pinoy music lovers. The members are very articulate.

Cheers and peace brothers!


thanks for sharing grappelli. just keep posting here. the members are pretty passionate, aren't they? :D

#58 blues2death

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Posted 31 August 2006 - 02:00 AM

thanks for sharing grappelli. just keep posting here. the members are pretty passionate, aren't they? :D


bakit mo inignore pm ko starbuck?

sheeeessssshhhh ...pag matanda talaga, madaling mapikon

#59 blues2death

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Posted 31 August 2006 - 02:23 AM

anyway grapelli.....and to other guys in the thread...

im sorry if i made the wrong impression....this guy is what i would call a "jazz"snob....dont be like him

what am i? a former rock en roller, turned bluesman...who happens to call jazz,his bitch.i got exposed to it first by records,lps and cds...but i loved it when i started watching live music.

there are lots of good jazz musicians out there. and i would never get tired promoting my friends..coz not only are they MY friends...but they are brothers in music.i know what they're going through...the troubles they go through...lack of money.since they are my friends---in real life i shoot the s^%t with them.

the truth....cds and radios are fine---personally i love watching great artists strut their stuff on stage.

and some people expressing their opinion that the jazz/blues scene in the philippines is not so good....is just plain ignorance.i dont know what standards are held when you cant even play yourself....can you walk the walk? and dont get me wrong. being a fan of music is fine...but again i say...foul na---pag hiniritan ng ganyan ang pinoy jazz/blues scene.

and some people have the gall to call his musician friends his friends...when he puts down the scene like that.because it doesnt hold a candle to their miles davis records....oooooohhhhhh

memorizing history doesnt make you a teacher..." robben ford did this record in 19blah blah ...in fact...blah blah blahthis...blah blah that" it gets old.....you maybe articulate....but if you cant play a note...you have no right to judge...

to those reading this thread...there is a jazz scene in the philippines....right outside your door. it's a very inspiring scene.lots of aspiring musicians...my friends...and they can be yours too.

better than staying at home listening to your lps man...guys im telling you....the scene is better than what some people think(those guys are saboteurs) ...mga traydor ang mga nagsasabing friends nila nirerespect opinion nila pero d naman nanonood...haha

i

#60 16track

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Posted 31 August 2006 - 07:25 AM

B2D:

No problem. Just post on, bro. =)




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