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#21 starbuck911

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Posted 06 August 2006 - 07:09 PM

hahaha alam mo madami na kong mental lapse talaga ....but what's he doing now? Weather Report has disbanded a long time ago na.


Yes, they disbanded a long time ago...need not tell me that. I don't know what sources/websites you use to keep up with what's going on, but have you no knowledge at all on the Zawinul Syndicate (which has existed for almost 2 decades na)?

Pare, 'di na yan resulta ng mental lapse! ;)

#22 starbuck911

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Posted 06 August 2006 - 07:49 PM

MIchael Hedges, Will Ackerman, Alex de Grassi, Steve Tibbetts, David Torn are all unfortunately labelled New Age, but they actually make very good music and they are all very excellent guitarists, which if you are a guitarist yourself, you can learn a lot from.....


It's true to a certain extent, esp. the first 3 you mentioned due mainly to their association with the Windham Hill label. However, I'd like to take an exception to the inclusion of David Torn on that list. I don't think he's labelled as New Age. Never saw any proof of that. If one has heard his earlier recordings with the Everyman Band (on ECM), the first impression you'd get was that he was more of a shredder. More towards fusion (for lack of a better word).

It's true that all these guys make some interesting music worth exploring.....but since this is a jazz thread, there are many more guitarists in this field that I would rather recommend to aspiring jazz guitar players (be it fusion or mainstream).

So far we've gathered over a hundred views on this thread. That means there are several lurkers reading this with interest (or at least looking around in-between hard-ons). :D Please feel free to share your jazz experiences (if any) here. Morrissey 05, I hope you're still around. I would be interested to know what you enjoy about the artists you listed.....but personally, I think the thread starter should be the one to engage you (and others) in a conversation. The more, the merrier.....and the more I'll be ganado to contribute to this thread. It would be a waste of time kung dalawa o tatlo lang kami dito.

#23 bods1000

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Posted 12 August 2006 - 08:49 PM

..im not exactly sure what jazz is. Basta alam ko parang "free-flowing" medyo magulo. Sensya na ignorante. Rock ako eh.


It's hard to go by definitions, pare. If you say "free-flowing, medyo magulo" I guess that would apply to a lot of rock music too....if you're a true-blue rocker, I'm sure you have given a listen to King Crimson, or early PInk Floyd (with the late Syd Barrett), or the solo albums by Robert Fripp and Adrian Belew, throw in some Velvet Underground, Emerson Lake and Palmer, Blue Oyster Cult, Rush, etc. and you would get your definition all muddled up :P

cheers, pare!

#24 bods1000

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Posted 12 August 2006 - 08:52 PM

Yes, they disbanded a long time ago...need not tell me that. I don't know what sources/websites you use to keep up with what's going on, but have you no knowledge at all on the Zawinul Syndicate (which has existed for almost 2 decades na)?

Pare, 'di na yan resulta ng mental lapse! ;)


pare maybe hindi lang mental lapse, maybe I've been residing in a cave all this time because I'm also not familiar with the Zawinul Syndicate :P

#25 bods1000

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Posted 12 August 2006 - 08:59 PM

It's true to a certain extent, esp. the first 3 you mentioned due mainly to their association with the Windham Hill label. However, I'd like to take an exception to the inclusion of David Torn on that list. I don't think he's labelled as New Age. Never saw any proof of that. If one has heard his earlier recordings with the Everyman Band (on ECM), the first impression you'd get was that he was more of a shredder. More towards fusion (for lack of a better word).

It's true that all these guys make some interesting music worth exploring.....but since this is a jazz thread, there are many more guitarists in this field that I would rather recommend to aspiring jazz guitar players (be it fusion or mainstream).

So far we've gathered over a hundred views on this thread. That means there are several lurkers reading this with interest (or at least looking around in-between hard-ons). :D Please feel free to share your jazz experiences (if any) here. Morrissey 05, I hope you're still around. I would be interested to know what you enjoy about the artists you listed.....but personally, I think the thread starter should be the one to engage you (and others) in a conversation. The more, the merrier.....and the more I'll be ganado to contribute to this thread. It would be a waste of time kung dalawa o tatlo lang kami dito.


quite right, pare!
all you lurkers out there - come on out of the woodwork. Don't be afraid to shoot yourself in the foot like me :P We need company here! :P
well I mentioned that New Age thing mainly because I just took up on your categorization point but anyway where is the thread starter? :P

#26 LongBow

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Posted 14 August 2006 - 02:35 AM

heyy!! nice thread.. may jobim listeners din pala dito.. here's a little something:

http://forums.mukamo...?showtopic=5163

http://forums.mukamo...?showtopic=5148

#27 starbuck911

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Posted 14 August 2006 - 07:52 AM

It's hard to go by definitions, pare. If you say "free-flowing, medyo magulo" I guess that would apply to a lot of rock music too....if you're a true-blue rocker, I'm sure you have given a listen to King Crimson, or early PInk Floyd (with the late Syd Barrett), or the solo albums by Robert Fripp and Adrian Belew, throw in some Velvet Underground, Emerson Lake and Palmer, Blue Oyster Cult, Rush, etc. and you would get your definition all muddled up :P

cheers, pare!


I could add more to that, but what for? The point's already been made! :thumbsupsmiley: Nice one, pards!

Correction lang to post # 15: I mentioned Paul Winter there. It should be Paul Horn if that is wrong. Whoever can confirm that is certainly qualified to join us here (if it's not too late). :P

Also...just wanna remind others again that Brazilian music isn't just about bossa, jobim, gilberto, and mendes. That was a movement that blossomed in the west during the 60's. How 'bout other Brazilian music greats such as Gilberto Gil, Caetano Veloso, Airto Moreira, Hermeto Pascoal, Elis Regina, Milton Nascimento, etc.? Kung puro bossa nalang tayo dito, ilipat nalang natin 'to sa thread ni Sitti Navarro. :boo:

Or...we can get back to jazz.

#28 starbuck911

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Posted 14 August 2006 - 08:13 AM

pare maybe hindi lang mental lapse, maybe I've been residing in a cave all this time because I'm also not familiar with the Zawinul Syndicate :P


dude, i'll be glad to burn a couple of zawinul cd's for you in the near future. :)

#29 hitomi

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Posted 14 August 2006 - 08:26 AM

Or...we can get back to jazz.


how about keiko matsui? she writes and plays nice jazz

does anybody know her here?

oh, and i found a short history of jazz, what do you guys think? you're the experts :lol:

"The History Of Jazz
By Jakob Culver

American classical music, also known as jazz is a diverse genre of music that stems from native American and African music. Most jazz is inspired by blues music. Jazz first became popular in the early 1920ís in clubs in cities like New Orleans and Chicago.

In the 1930ís Jazz was so popular that there were even white jazz singers. Big bands came into play such as Ben Goodman and Glen Miller, although some viewed them as swing more than jazz.

Jazz led into more conventional methods that made it like todayís pop groups. Only then it was called Be Bop. The jazz music was becoming more loose and more harmonized.

Be bop was not what you would call dancing music, but it was more to actually see the performers. This made each performer strive a little harder to be the best, because without the dancing it really was about the talent.

Of course jazz music was often sad and was about heartache and troubles of life. Most of the music was based off of the performers lives. A lot of performerís died from drug and alcohol abuse.

Jazz is based off of a classical background and to play it well you have to learn the chords and scales of the songs. It also takes improvisation and an imagination. It can be quite difficult, but for some jazz is just in the blood."

#30 starbuck911

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Posted 14 August 2006 - 09:30 AM

how about keiko matsui? she writes and plays nice jazz

does anybody know her here?

oh, and i found a short history of jazz, what do you guys think? you're the experts :lol:


without referring to a book, what do you think? :lol:

keiko matsui? yeah, we know who she is. you know kazu as well?
send them our regards!

#31 starbuck911

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Posted 14 August 2006 - 10:11 AM

as for that article, it's pretty generalized for neophytes, but needs a lot of fine tuning to keep up with the times. the author is described as an "ezinearticles.com expert". how dependable naman.

i'm certainly no expert, but i know just enough to be able to spot a jazz enthusiast, a typical jazz fan, a jazz pretender, or simply one with nothing jazzy to contribute at all.

yeah...where is our thread starter?

Edited by starbuck911, 14 August 2006 - 10:14 AM.


#32 bods1000

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Posted 19 August 2006 - 07:29 PM

I could add more to that, but what for? The point's already been made! :thumbsupsmiley: Nice one, pards!

Correction lang to post # 15: I mentioned Paul Winter there. It should be Paul Horn if that is wrong. Whoever can confirm that is certainly qualified to join us here (if it's not too late). :P

Also...just wanna remind others again that Brazilian music isn't just about bossa, jobim, gilberto, and mendes. That was a movement that blossomed in the west during the 60's. How 'bout other Brazilian music greats such as Gilberto Gil, Caetano Veloso, Airto Moreira, Hermeto Pascoal, Elis Regina, Milton Nascimento, etc.? Kung puro bossa nalang tayo dito, ilipat nalang natin 'to sa thread ni Sitti Navarro. :boo:

Or...we can get back to jazz.


now that you mention it, some people don't consider Eumir Deodato as a true-blue jazzman. What's your take on this?


dude, i'll be glad to burn a couple of zawinul cd's for you in the near future. :)


my complete gratitude, pare! thanks.

#33 starbuck911

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Posted 20 August 2006 - 10:59 PM

...some people don't consider Eumir Deodato as a true-blue jazzman. What's your take on this?


who are these people? what does it take for one to be considered a true-blue jazzman? do these people all have the same standards? ...or is it really you who's asking on behalf of "some people"? ;)

i can't give an answer to a question that doesn't feel right. parang it's being approached from the wrong angle.

Edited by starbuck911, 20 August 2006 - 11:01 PM.


#34 bods1000

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Posted 26 August 2006 - 07:12 PM

who are these people? what does it take for one to be considered a true-blue jazzman? do these people all have the same standards? ...or is it really you who's asking on behalf of "some people"? ;)

i can't give an answer to a question that doesn't feel right. parang it's being approached from the wrong angle.


it's really approached from the wrong angle because the question about Deodato is really skewed. I enjoy Deodato, whether his music is jazz or not and he was part of my growing up in the 70's. Some critics dismiss him and "dyed-in-the-wool" jazz afficionados don't seriously give him a thought. I have this Jazz Encyclopedia that doesn't even give him a single entry and this makes me wonder - to repeat your question - what does it take to be a true jazzman?

#35 blues2death

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Posted 27 August 2006 - 08:28 PM

to lighten up lang :cool:

what makes jazz and wearing socks similar?

ang jazz.....may sax(socks)....

ang socks(sax)....medyas(may jazz) :P :D :D

#36 starbuck911

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Posted 28 August 2006 - 04:37 AM

it's really approached from the wrong angle because the question about Deodato is really skewed. I enjoy Deodato, whether his music is jazz or not and he was part of my growing up in the 70's. Some critics dismiss him and "dyed-in-the-wool" jazz afficionados don't seriously give him a thought. I have this Jazz Encyclopedia that doesn't even give him a single entry and this makes me wonder - to repeat your question - what does it take to be a true jazzman?


I didn't expect to get into Deodato on this thread (really, hehe...), but the subject still refuses to die. :unsure:

So anyway, some of these opinions on him are based on what they know of him as a musician. In a way, that's partly true...but to those in-the-know, he is first and foremost an Arranger/Conductor. Being a musician/recording artist (and sometimes Producer) are just among the many hats he wears in this business. Think of guys like Michel Legrand, Henry Mancini, Dave Grusin, Quincy Jones, Patrick Williams, Lalo Schifrin, Andre Previn, etc. In Brazil, Deodato is known to be one of these types of people in the music biz. In the 60's, he was already a top Producer/Arranger for many of the upcoming Brazilian stars of the day such as Elis Regina, Milton Nascimento, and many others. It was even said that he actually discovered some of them (which ones, I have to double-check). He even had a number of instrumental recordings that featured his keyboard playing over various brazilian rhythms. I actually admire music business folks such as these because they are very well-rounded, open-minded, and most of all, they also have the smarts to make good in this business (for a long time) without having to live life as a musician alone. Like those people I mentioned, Deodato has also dabbled in movie scores and soundtracks from his native homeland. Ask those I mentioned what kind of music they like personally, and oftentimes you'll hear that it's jazz. All those guys I mentioned above have made jazz recordings in the past, and I'll bet that is a fact unknown to many. They're all-around music cats, but Deodato will always be associated with his CTI recordings, particularly 2001. There's more to add, but this info on Deodato should give you guys a better understanding on him, and should clear the air on why the original question was taken from the wrong angle. As to whether he's a true-blue jazzman, that's irrelevant. Like I said, all these guys have it in them when they decide to flaunt it. I don't know about you, but that's good enough for me. Btw, you'll be amazed at what he has accomplished as a Producer as well. It surprised me that he won Grammies for pop/disco recordings I can't stand, but it goes to show that he has worn many hats over the years, just like the other guys I mentioned earlier.

#37 grappelli

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Posted 28 August 2006 - 06:01 PM

I didn't expect to get into Deodato on this thread (really, hehe...), but the subject still refuses to die. :unsure:

So anyway, some of these opinions on him are based on what they know of him as a musician. In a way, that's partly true...but to those in-the-know, he is first and foremost an Arranger/Conductor. Being a musician/recording artist (and sometimes Producer) are just among the many hats he wears in this business. Think of guys like Michel Legrand, Henry Mancini, Dave Grusin, Quincy Jones, Patrick Williams, Lalo Schifrin, Andre Previn, etc. In Brazil, Deodato is known to be one of these types of people in the music biz. In the 60's, he was already a top Producer/Arranger for many of the upcoming Brazilian stars of the day such as Elis Regina, Milton Nascimento, and many others. It was even said that he actually discovered some of them (which ones, I have to double-check). He even had a number of instrumental recordings that featured his keyboard playing over various brazilian rhythms. I actually admire music business folks such as these because they are very well-rounded, open-minded, and most of all, they also have the smarts to make good in this business (for a long time) without having to live life as a musician alone. Like those people I mentioned, Deodato has also dabbled in movie scores and soundtracks from his native homeland. Ask those I mentioned what kind of music they like personally, and oftentimes you'll hear that it's jazz. All those guys I mentioned above have made jazz recordings in the past, and I'll bet that is a fact unknown to many. They're all-around music cats, but Deodato will always be associated with his CTI recordings, particularly 2001. There's more to add, but this info on Deodato should give you guys a better understanding on him, and should clear the air on why the original question was taken from the wrong angle. As to whether he's a true-blue jazzman, that's irrelevant. Like I said, all these guys have it in them when they decide to flaunt it. I don't know about you, but that's good enough for me. Btw, you'll be amazed at what he has accomplished as a Producer as well. It surprised me that he won Grammies for pop/disco recordings I can't stand, but it goes to show that he has worn many hats over the years, just like the other guys I mentioned earlier.



Okay discussion dito. Favorite ko si Stephane Grappelli.

#38 blues2death

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Posted 29 August 2006 - 12:18 PM

hey guys.....

rock is my first love :heart: . blues is my wife..... :thumbsupsmiley:

while jazz is my mistress :evil:

my favorite jazz guitar players: mike stern, joe pass, john scofield, wes montgomery, herb ellis, george benson, lee ritenour, larry carlton, john mclaughlin and robben ford ( wait a minute! blues yan a!) :P

sa mga pinoy: aya yuson, noel mendez (lotsa styles,great with jazz/fusion), jack rufo (same here), pido lamimarmo( hey pa-cute acoustic artist, pero roots nya jazz) and joey puyat ( blue rats guitarist, hey! blues to e!) :cool:

other pinoy artists na jazz......colby and clint dela calzada(bass and guitars),tots tolentino(sax),joe quirino(keyboards),vernie varga(vox/sex symbol),mong of ugoy-ugoy(bass),tito abeng lavapiz(guitars and bass),eddie boy bungo(guitars),wowie posadas(keyboards)...and many more!

support youre neighborhood jazz jamming.listening to records at home is fine...but it's even better to watch it live!

19 east at sucat...right next to the xp way. sa paranaque.....right next to posadas village.every sunday.you'll be glad you checked it out.no need to thank me! :cool:

i just wish i could come with you!

#39 starbuck911

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Posted 29 August 2006 - 03:07 PM

support youre neighborhood jazz jamming.listening to records at home is fine...but it's even better to watch it live!


if i lived in the states, i'd agree 100%. i did that quite a bit back then.

it's a different story here. i have given up on the local music scene years ago. the local jazz jams (for example) bore me to death. i get a lot more enjoyment listening to music with like-minded friends at our homes. we have a lot of music that we know we won't get outside. please take note that i'm just stating a personal opinion here. mind you, i have friends and relatives who have been (and still are) active musicians. in fact, a few of them were mentioned above. they understand my reasons behind my stand, and mutual respect remains between us.

having said that, i have no objections to anyone else supporting the local music industry. by all means, do so if you think you'll get something out of it.

Edited by starbuck911, 29 August 2006 - 03:10 PM.


#40 starbuck911

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Posted 29 August 2006 - 03:31 PM

Okay discussion dito. Favorite ko si Stephane Grappelli.


Welcome to the thread, Grappelli. It's not often one would pick a violinist as his/her favorite jazz musician. It's a rather fascinating choice, so do come back and share your thoughts on SG if and when you get the chance.




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