Apo Marcos : Facts And Myths

[juan t]

Did the PCGG really recover P4 billion? I am asking a about this particular case. Where is the update?

 

OMG your stupid questions are unending. Of course billions have really been recovered! Why would the PCGG even make this claim (if it was false) then have to be liable for it later on?

[will robie]

OMG your stupid questions are unending. Of course billions have really been recovered! Why would the PCGG even make this claim (if it was false) then have to be liable for it later on?

 

It is not a stupid question. If you cant answer my questions, dont use a lame excuse that I am asking a stupid question. If you dont know the answer, I wont take it against you. If indeed the PCGG recovered it, whoever is the president should be transparent on where it will be used. I have not read anything about where it will be used. That is if it was really recovered. Edited August 17, 2018 by will robie

[juan t]

It is not a stupid question. If you cant answer my questions, dont use a lame excuse that I am asking a stupid question. If you dont know the answer, I wont take it against you. If indeed the PCGG recovered it, whoever is the president should be transparent on where it will be used. I have not read anything about where it will be used. That is if it was really recovered.

 

Oh so you think that the PCGG is just making up stories that it recovered all that money from the Marcoses? Why do you think it would do that?

[will robie]

Oh so you think that the PCGG is just making up stories that it recovered all that money from the Marcoses? Why do you think it would do that?

I wont believe that they recovered that amount you mentioned unless you show me proof where the money went to and how the money was used.

Edited August 17, 2018 by will robie

[juan t]

I wont believe that they recovered that amount you mentioned unless you show me proof where the money went to and how the money was used.

 

Oh but you believe that SOME amount was recovered, just not the amount I mentioned? How much would you say?

Edited August 17, 2018 by juan t

[will robie]

Oh but you believe that SOME amount was recovered, just not the amount I mentioned? How much would you say?

Oh but you believe that SOME amount was recovered, just not the amount I mentioned? How much would you say?

No, I dont believe any anount was recovered unless you or they show how they recovered it and the agency they surrendered it to. Moreover, and most importantly, the agency that they surrendered it to shoiuld show where the alleged recovered money was used. Edited August 17, 2018 by will robie

[tk421]

 

Oh but you believe that SOME amount was recovered, just not the amount I mentioned? How much would you say?

 

Hirap kausap ang tamad mag research, 'no?

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/feb/12/philippines-seizes-marcos-accounts

 

The Philippine government has recovered more than US$29m from the Swiss accounts of the late dictator Ferdinand Marcos and the search for more of his hidden wealth continues 28 years after he was toppled, an official has said.

The money, recovered over the last week, was part of the more than $712m from Marcos’s secret Swiss accounts now in government hands, said Andres Bautista, chairman of the Presidential Commission on Good Government, the agency in charge of recovering Marcos’ allegedly ill-gotten wealth.

http://news.abs-cbn.com/news/05/09/18/11000-martial-law-victims-to-get-compensation

 

Claimants will get their compensation from Marcos’ secret Swiss bank deposits worth 10 billion pesos.

Edited August 17, 2018 by tk421

[jc44 - RETIRED]

Moving goalposts much? Recall that I brought up Republic v. Sandiganbayan in reply to this:

 

It's been 32 years,900++ cases, two incompetent Aquinos, yet, they could not nail any Marcos.

 

So we know that that isn't true. Case law clearly establishes that Ferdinand Marcos did, in fact, have ill-gotten wealth. The only reason we couldn't go after him criminally is because he died in exile. Criminal law provides that criminal liability is extinguished with the death of the accused. That doesn't mean that everything that Marcos did magically never happened.

 

I am not asking for the case. I already saw that before. I am asking you if it has been enforced. If you have updates, show it.

 

You're free to visit the PCGG and the HRVCB to check where the money has gone.

Did the PCGG really recover P4 billion? I am asking a about this particular case. Where is the update?

 

This case brought about the funding used to pay reparation for human rights victims under the Marcos regime. There was a law passed. This is public knowledge.

 

It is ultimately disingenuous to demand that people pointing out matters of public knowledge "prove" what we point out. OTOH, it *is* your burden to prove that official duties were not performed and that court orders were not followed.

 

So if you are not convinced that the Swiss banks did remit the funds, that the PCGG did receive the funds, and that the funds were used for reparation, it is YOUR burden to prove otherwise. Not ours.

[will robie]

Moving goalposts much? Recall that I brought up Republic v. Sandiganbayan in reply to this:

 

 

So we know that that isn't true. Case law clearly establishes that Ferdinand Marcos did, in fact, have ill-gotten wealth. The only reason we couldn't go after him criminally is because he died in exile. Criminal law provides that criminal liability is extinguished with the death of the accused. That doesn't mean that everything that Marcos did magically never happened.

 

Really now? How sure are you he would have been nailed of ill-gotten wealth had he lived? He was willing to return to the country to defend himself. Cory Aquino didn't let him. If Cory Aquino was confident she could nail him for his ill-gotten wealth, why didn't she allow him to return to defend himself?

You're free to visit the PCGG and the HRVCB to check where the money has gone.

 

You challenged my post. You show it.

[will robie]

 

This case brought about the funding used to pay reparation for human rights victims under the Marcos regime. There was a law passed. This is public knowledge.

http://news.abs-cbn.com/news/01/05/18/court-affirms-rejection-of-2-billion-compensation-claim-over-marcos-estate

 

Is this what you're referring to?

 

 

MANILA (UPDATE) - The Court of Appeals has stood pat on its earlier ruling junking the plea of human rights victims during the Marcos regime for the enforcement of a United States court decision awarding them $2 billion in compensation.

In a three-page resolution dated January 3, 2018 penned by Associate Justice Normandie Pizarro, the appellate court, through its Former 12th Division, denied the motion filed by the claimants and affirmed its July 7, 2017 ruling.

It is ultimately disingenuous to demand that people pointing out matters of public knowledge "prove" what we point out. OTOH, it *is* your burden to prove that official duties were not performed and that court orders were not followed.

 

You challenged my post. You are alleging something and when I ask you the hard questions, you reply with this? Don't turn the tables on me. Answer my questions convincingly.

So if you are not convinced that the Swiss banks did remit the funds, that the PCGG did receive the funds, and that the funds were used for reparation, it is YOUR burden to prove otherwise. Not ours.

Why will I prove something I didn't challenge? You challenged my post. Answer my questions.

[jc44 - RETIRED]

Really now? How sure are you he would have been nailed of ill-gotten wealth had he lived? He was willing to return to the country to defend himself. Cory Aquino didn't let him. If Cory Aquino was confident she could nail him for his ill-gotten wealth, why didn't she allow him to return to defend himself?

You challenged my post. You show it.

 

The SC decision speaks for itself, if you bothered to read.

 

I showed you a case where the Marcoses were found to have ill-gotten wealth - contrary to your claim that the Marcoses have never been "nailed." You do not challenge this finding, but instead focus on peripheral matters. So, thanks for admitting that the Marcoses have been found guilty of amassing ill-gotten wealth.

[will robie]

 

The SC decision speaks for itself, if you bothered to read.

 

I showed you a case where the Marcoses were found to have ill-gotten wealth - contrary to your claim that the Marcoses have never been "nailed." You do not challenge this finding, but instead focus on peripheral matters. So, thanks for admitting that the Marcoses have been found guilty of amassing ill-gotten wealth.

If the Marcoses had ill-gotten wealth with emphasis on the adjective "ill-gotten", why isn't any of them in jail? Again, just answer the question. Where did the alleged recovered "ill-gotten" wealth go? How and where was it used? This is the people's money. There has to be transparency. I haven't read an article or news item to support your post. What is the statement that made you say I am admitting the Marcoses were found guilty of amassing "ill-gotten" wealth? I didn't challenge it? Really? The mere fact that I asked you questions is already challenging it because that means I doubt it.

Edited August 17, 2018 by will robie

[tk421]

The SC decision speaks for itself, if you bothered to read.

I showed you a case where the Marcoses were found to have ill-gotten wealth - contrary to your claim that the Marcoses have never been "nailed." You do not challenge this finding, but instead focus on peripheral matters. So, thanks for admitting that the Marcoses have been found guilty of amassing ill-gotten wealth.

Well it’s clear he won’t read any proof you present anyways.

 

Ilan beses na tayo nagbigay ng mga articles, lists, websites where the recovered billions were spent.

 

Gusto pa nga nya ata pati yun nabigyan ng ML compensation i account pa natin saan nila ginastos.

[will robie]

 

https://www.philstar.com/headlines/2018/06/20/1826270/sc-junks-p51-billion-pcgg-suit-vs-marcos-cronies

 

 

May iba dito bilib na bilib sa PCGG. Nasupalpal yung PCGG niyo dito.

 

 

MANILA, Philippines — The Supreme Court (SC) has rejected the bid of the Presidential Commission on Good Government (PCGG) to recover P51 billion from the estates of the late strongman Ferdinand Marcos, his wife Imelda and his cronies that they allegedly acquired through behest loans.

In a 28-page decision promulgated last April 4, the high court’s First Division dismissed the petition of PCGG seeking reversal of the August 2010 ruling of the Sandiganbayan that junked its civil suit.

The SC instead affirmed the anti-graft court’s ruling, which dismissed the complaint for reconveyance, reversion, restitution and damages against the Marcoses and other respondents, including former construction magnate Rodolfo Cuenca and former trade minister Roberto Ongpin.

I almost forgot to put this:

 

PCGG is facing imminent abolition through pending bills in Congress.

Edited August 18, 2018 by will robie

[camiar]

Ang nangyari kasi, the stupid Cory Government asked the Swiss Courts to freeze the accounts that they allege to be Marcos' ill-gotten wealth.

 

Then they failed to prove that the money was ill-gotten or whether it really belongs to the Marcoses or not.

 

Now nobody can access it. Not the government, not the alleged victims, nobody.

 

Switzerland practically owns it now.

[juan t]

Ang nangyari kasi, the stupid Cory Government asked the Swiss Courts to freeze the accounts that they allege to be Marcos' ill-gotten wealth.

 

Then they failed to prove that the money was ill-gotten or whether it really belongs to the Marcoses or not.

 

Now nobody can access it. Not the government, not the alleged victims, nobody.

 

Switzerland practically owns it now.

 

Pwede ba tumigil ka sa kaka imbento mo ng storya. Puro fake news ang pinagkakalat mo dito eh.

 

https://www.philstar.com/headlines/2003/07/16/213830/sc-awards-658-m-marcos-swiss-accounts

[juan t]

 

 

May iba dito bilib na bilib sa PCGG. Nasupalpal yung PCGG niyo dito.

 

 

 

MANILA, Philippines — The Supreme Court (SC) has rejected the bid of the Presidential Commission on Good Government (PCGG) to recover P51 billion from the estates of the late strongman Ferdinand Marcos, his wife Imelda and his cronies that they allegedly acquired through behest loans.

In a 28-page decision promulgated last April 4, the high court’s First Division dismissed the petition of PCGG seeking reversal of the August 2010 ruling of the Sandiganbayan that junked its civil suit.

The SC instead affirmed the anti-graft court’s ruling, which dismissed the complaint for reconveyance, reversion, restitution and damages against the Marcoses and other respondents, including former construction magnate Rodolfo Cuenca and former trade minister Roberto Ongpin.

 

 

Yes, this is one of the cases in which natalo ang gobyerno vs. the Marcoses.

 

Ikaw naman Mr. Blind Follower... Hindi mo ba naisip kung paano nakuha ni Marcos ang ganyang halaga? P51 billion po yan at kapiranggot lang yan ng kanilang total wealth. Tell me, where do you think it came from.

[will robie]

 

 

Yes, this is one of the cases in which natalo ang gobyerno vs. the Marcoses.

 

Ikaw naman Mr. Blind Follower... Hindi mo ba naisip kung paano nakuha ni Marcos ang ganyang halaga? P51 billion po yan at kapiranggot lang yan ng kanilang total wealth. Tell me, where do you think it came from.

Hindi mo pa sinasagot mga tanong ko. Instead of answering the questions I asked, you've been reduced to name calling. Kapiranggot ba? Patunayan mo at huwag puro speculation.

Edited August 19, 2018 by will robie

[jc44 - RETIRED]

 

 

May iba dito bilib na bilib sa PCGG. Nasupalpal yung PCGG niyo dito.

 

So you'll believe the Supreme Court when they deny a petition from the PCGG, but you won't believe them when they grant it?

 

Your problem isn't one of the absence of compelling proof. Your problem is that your mind is made up, and no amount of contrary evidence will satisfy you.

 

Good day sir.

[jc44 - RETIRED]

Ang nangyari kasi, the stupid Cory Government asked the Swiss Courts to freeze the accounts that they allege to be Marcos' ill-gotten wealth.

 

Then they failed to prove that the money was ill-gotten or whether it really belongs to the Marcoses or not.

 

Now nobody can access it. Not the government, not the alleged victims, nobody.

 

Switzerland practically owns it now.

Kindly backread. The money in the Swiss bank accounts was recovered. I cited the case where the Supreme Court made that finding that said funds were proven to be ill-gotten, while others noted that the same funds were used as reparations for human rights violations victims during the Marcos Regime.

[will robie]

So you'll believe the Supreme Court when they deny a petition from the PCGG, but you won't believe them when they grant it?

Your problem isn't one of the absence of compelling proof. Your problem is that your mind is made up, and no amount of contrary evidence will satisfy you.

Good day sir.

Let us not convolute the conversation. All you have to do is answer the questions I asked.

[juan t]

Hindi mo pa sinasagot mga tanong ko. Instead of answering the questions I asked, you've been reduced to name calling. Kapiranggot ba? Patunayan mo at huwag puro speculation.

 

Diverting the issue?

 

I'll ask again. The Marcoses may have won the case, but how were they able to acquire P51 billion in the first place?

[camiar]

 

Pwede ba tumigil ka sa kaka imbento mo ng storya. Puro fake news ang pinagkakalat mo dito eh.

 

https://www.philstar.com/headlines/2003/07/16/213830/sc-awards-658-m-marcos-swiss-accounts

$570 million? That's puny. They're even bloating up the "recovered" value by declaring it at its present cost.

 

That's less than 5.7% of the "more than US$10 billion" that Cory government claims to be Marocs's ill-gotten wealth. The PCGG is giving up because they cannot prove their cases. There are now moves to disband the PCGG for its ineptness and corruption charges. Hindi yan fake news. It's fact staring at your face.

Edited August 20, 2018 by camiar

[will robie]

Diverting the issue?

 

I'll ask again. The Marcoses may have won the case, but how were they able to acquire P51 billion in the first place?

 

How am I diverting the issue? Asking questions relative to the civil case you are talking about is not diverting the issue. Answer the questions I asked instead of making nonsensical statements like I am diverting the issue. If you dont know, just say so. Hindi kita babash.

 

I will answer your question after you answer mine. But I get this feeling I will be waiting in vain.

Edited August 20, 2018 by will robie

[juan t]

Ang gulo mo kausap ha!

First you say that the Philippine government failed to prove that the money was ill-gotten resulting to the money being stuck in Swiss banks.

 

 

Ang nangyari kasi, the stupid Cory Government asked the Swiss Courts to freeze the accounts that they allege to be Marcos' ill-gotten wealth.

 

Then they failed to prove that the money was ill-gotten or whether it really belongs to the Marcoses or not.

 

Now nobody can access it. Not the government, not the alleged victims, nobody.

 

Switzerland practically owns it now.

 

Tapos nung napatunayan na NAGIIMBENTO ka nanaman ng kwento, MAGPAPALUSOT ka at papalitan mo yung statement mo to "the recovered Swiss money is puny"

 

$570 million? That's puny. They're even bloating up the "recovered" value by declaring it at its present cost.

 

That's less than 5.7% of the "more than US$10 billion" that Cory government claims to be Marocs's ill-gotten wealth. The PCGG is giving up because they cannot prove their cases. There are now moves to disband the PCGG for its ineptness and corruption charges. Hindi yan fake news. It's fact staring at your face.

 

FYI: yung $570 million recovered is only partial of the $4 billion already recovered from several cases. At yung $4 billion recovered naman is only partial of the $10 billion estimated stolen.

 

And, the PCGG is not giving up (nagiibento ka nanaman)! It is being abolished by bff Duterte. Alam naman natin lahat na si Duterte at ang mga Marcoses ay beshies, kaya bilang isang tunay na kaibigan, gustong ilipat ni Duterte yung functions ng PCGG to the Office of the Solicitor General headed by Calida (who by the way is a known Marcos proponent). In short ALAM NA THIS!.